NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants

cnet ^ | June 15, 2013 4:39 PM PDT | Declan McCullagh

[tje]

The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed this week that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."

If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney who serves on the House Judiciary committee.

[Standing Wolf]

I would suggest, it's easier to get agreement on amendments to the constitution than it is to get agreement on an entirely new constitution.

I don't think you can restore enumerated powers without a clear plan to deal with the programs that are outside of enumerated powers. Probably easier to grandfather them all and deal with them one by one.

But if you can't get support for an amendment to do so, then you wouldn't be able to get support for it in a new governement either.

I think you're right, DannyTN. A new constitution? Nah. There wasn't much wrong with the original U.S. Constitution. I think we need to beef up the Bill of Rights, add strict term limits, penalties for violating the Constitution, and strictly limit the powers and authorities of the national and state governments. I'd very much like to see the new federal government wholly dependent on the states for every dollar it spends.

Is that asking a lot? Maybe; on the bright side, the worse things get under the current feral government, the easier I believe it will be for people to see why the Constitutional States of America needs to be put—and kept—on a short leash.

[Wuli]

apparantly the FISA Court “bulk data” Warrants are what Bush, Obama and the NSA think cover the 4th Amendment requirements; with the FISA court on the judiciary side making a judicial agreement that “reasonable” and “probable cause” are satisfied and sufficent for issuing their Warrant

http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-surveillance-architecture-includes-collection-of-revealing-internet-phone-metadata/2013/06/15/e9bf004a-d511-11e2-b05f-3ea3f0e7bb5a_print.html

if that’s the case, we need to legislate new requirements for the FISA court

[MichiganConservative]

I think I speak for all FREEopers when I say that they can’t listen to your phone if you are dead and what is invading your privacy and stomping on your 4th amendment rights compared to being killed by terrorists.

I think I speak for all FReepers when I say give the government more power to keep me safe. We value safety over anything. 9/11 safety, security! Keep us safe even if it means inserting a rectal probe to read our thoughts to make sure we aren’t terrorists and jihadists!

What’s freedom or liberty when you’re dead? I think the founding fathers swaid something like “safety and security mena you’re still alive.”

Maybe we should ask them to put us in security cages in safety camps and momnitor us all day long so the evil doers don’t get to us. They could come out from under my bed.

I think I speak for all FReepers when I say I fear what the government tells me to fear and think what the government tells me to think because I don’t hate America first and I don’t want an Islamofascist to grab me from under my bed.

[apoliticalone]

The paid pundits are going to politicize and vilify Snowden and hedge this issue until the public forgets why they are pxssed. They’ll be a new Voice show or some other sports championship to follow and take our minds off of the trivia of a government of thieves.

The PTB knows this and they will bend the story and public opinion by dividing and conquering politically. The Democrats want to protect their brand and the Republican-E wants to protect their corporate brand too because it started under Bush. True Tea Partiers understand that this policy is a means to neuter and destroy the democracy because it gives the power to pick and chose to the elites. Huckabee was one who said as much.

The D/R Parties’ main mission is to keep only 2 Parties and this will make this easy. No more challengers to the system because they have all the goods on everyone who attempts to cross them.

[apoliticalone]

“Remember how out of their minds mad liberals were at Bush because he was “shredding the Constitution” with his “warrant less wiretaps”?”

The shredding of our Constitution started with the 9-11 event, that coincidentally should have been prevented. But instead it convinced Americans that they should be very afraid. We were not even told, but it was implied that Americans don’t need to be afraid, (by those who failed to prevent 9-11) if citizens can be under 24/7 surveillance, a microphone at all times, and a choke chain collar on citizens thus turning them into subjects and suspects.

One big F#$%^&* problem here! We Americans didn’t do 9-11 so why are they looking at us. Had Bush/Clinton done their job tracking visas and immigrants 9-11 would not have happened, and there would of been NO Pearl Harbor event that put us on this track.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Well, Fatass Nadler is proving that even a blind squirrel can find a few nuts.

Incidentally, I guess that this is a not-so-classified briefing now.

PING!

[corlorde]

Seriously. Wasn’t it learned that the Sept 11th hijackers in flight school weren’t really concerned with the finer aspects of landing a plane, only how to take off and fly? Hmm, try mentioning that now in class, and see how fast you get reported. But the liberals were the ones to scream about, “Bush didn’t connect the dots!”. Now, they are connecting the dots between Conservative 501s using the IRS to me and you.

[jurroppi1]

The problem here is that we know they aren’t just gathering logs and metadata, they have admitted that they have been, are still now, and at any time can listen to anyone’s telephone conversations on a whim, with impunity. There are supposedly at least 5 million people they do this to on a regular basis.

Under Bush, supposedly the only calls that were wiretapped “warrantlessly” were international calls - calls that were to/from or within terrorist supporting nations (that could still be pretty massive), but at least they (again supposedly) weren’t violating American’s rights. Still a bitter pill, and to some extent a double-standard if you are a purist about privacy rights being everyone’s right and not just American’s rights.

I’ll take a look at the link you posted in more detail, since I have heard some things about the allegations therein, but admittedly don’t know all of the details.

[Shady]

I agree, and it will be a race between Gnu Yak and Kalafornia to smash the dirt floor first.

[Shady]

The indexing system is probably a Yankee White secure...

[silentknight]

Wake me when Americans realize they need a solid revolution.

Personally I think they are too lazy for a revolution. As long as they have Facebook, cable tv, and Doritos in their laps then they should be fine.

American is becoming a country that I don’t recognize. I fear it is too late.

Prove me wrong.

[Nifster]

I am not that long signed up at FR but the FBI and others started paying attention to my family in the late 1950s because they didn’t like that my dad was testifying and working against the various bills that became medicare.....ever since I have had constant companions

[null and void]

Any coping tips for the rest of us?

[topfile]

So it appears that the recent testimony in front of congress by NSA Chief General Alexander was simply a dog and pony show.

[hoosiermama]

Kabuki translated to legalese Too many lawyers whose practice is to get around the law instead of following the rule of law

[Nifster]

nah....live your life as if they know everything ( because they probably do).....let them worry about trying to catch up to you

[null and void]

Sage advice.

[dragnet2]

Remember when Chertoff, Bush's Homeland Security boss and security kingpin, was found to have people who entered the country illegally, wandering around the inside of his private residence, during *wartime*.

[staytrue]

You better watch out
You better not try
Joining a Tea Party
I’m telling you why
The NSA is coming to town

They’ve got their list
They won’t check it twice.
They’ve got your emails .
And being a Patriot’s a vice.
The NSA is coming to town

They know what you’ve been saying
They tapped all you phone calls
They know how you voted
So Vote democrat or don’t vote at all.

So you
Better watch out
You better not try
Don’t pray to God.
I’m telling you why
The NSA is coming to town

[hoosiermama]

That needs a thread of its own in the morning so more will see it

Leni. Thought it was you who had posted as I was reading. Knew your enjoy!