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Day 16 (Week #4) Zimmerman Trial Witness Discussion Thread
The Conservative Treehouse ^ | July 1, 2013 | Sundance

Posted on 07/01/2013 5:17:35 AM PDT by Uncle Chip

Today, July 1st, is DAY #16 (of 4th week) State of Florida V. George Zimmerman case.

Last week the prosecution feebly presented the first series of witnesses against George Zimmerman. However, as most observers would note, the witnesses called by the state have so far been more beneficial for the Zimmerman Self-Defense position.

(Excerpt) Read more at theconservativetreehouse.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: florida; sanford; skittles; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: Political Junkie Too

Okay. And that changes the truth of my thesis statement in what way? He was charged with lying the FBI, even if he wasn’t convicted of it. So my statement still stands unimpeached - you don’t have to be under oath for you to go to jail for lying to a Federal agent.


1,251 posted on 07/01/2013 3:10:44 PM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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To: RummyChick

I sincerely believe without listening to the tapes, you are taking what you are reading out of context.

I don’t have the time to go back and listen right now, but I am of the belief that what you are speaking to in regards to him being in the car and scared, is being confused.

Please stop suggesting that anyone here to blind to the facts being presented, it’s insulting. We are all listening and drawing our own conclusions. To suggest we are denying truth as it’s presented is just clearly an assumption on your part.


1,252 posted on 07/01/2013 3:11:16 PM PDT by AllAmericanGirl44 ('Hey citizen, what's in YOUR closet?')
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To: RummyChick

Life has inconsistencies.

The question is, where are the most inconsistencies, or the most indicative inconsistencies?

I think those are going to be on the prosecution’s side of things.


1,253 posted on 07/01/2013 3:11:17 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: snarkytart

Once again, it is a female jury.

GZ said he was afraid while in the car

It IS an issue whether you want to admit it or not.


1,254 posted on 07/01/2013 3:11:24 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

“But you can’t underestimate a female jury wondering why GZ got out of that car when he said he was afraid.”

Most of the women I know are not such pansies. And MY wife expects me to get up and go investigate things that go bump in the night. In fact, the military used to pay me to go in harm’s way. Lots of men have no real trouble with feeling some fear, then manning up and going...


1,255 posted on 07/01/2013 3:11:54 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Jeff Winston

Has the prosecution gotten to the last of its witnesses?
_______________________________________________________

No, but for all intents and purposes, they have all been pro-defense witnesses so far.


1,256 posted on 07/01/2013 3:11:59 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: RummyChick; AllAmericanGirl44
Some of you refuse to objectively look at this case and pretend there is nothing that the jury could look at to hold him guilty. THIS TAPE gives them some room.

The standard of proof in a murder case is not "some room" to find the defendant guilty. It is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt."

Up to this point the evidence overwhelming points to the fact that Mr. Zimmerman did not commit any of the specific elements of murder.

The last question asked by MOM was quite telling. The police officer had already testified that there was a lot of political pressure put on him to get Zimmerman. In the end the officer concluded that Zimmerman's entire story was the truth.

Now take that to your jury box and tell me why anyone should convict Zimmerman of anything based on the evidence presented to date.

1,257 posted on 07/01/2013 3:13:21 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.ca)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

Don’t try to make a fool of yourself, the creator has apparently done the job for you.


1,258 posted on 07/01/2013 3:13:36 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: RummyChick
Courage is the ability to do the right thing even when you are scared or afraid.

Your post makes no sense to me.

1,259 posted on 07/01/2013 3:13:47 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Solson

He was big. He was a thug. He was acting like he was on drugs and he was.

He was acting suspicious.
He was circling the car.

If I was afraid in my car - and GZ admitted he was...I would not get out of the car.

In fact, I would move my car and wait for the police.

btw, the same would hold true if it was a big white thug or a big hispanic thug acting the same way.


1,260 posted on 07/01/2013 3:13:55 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick
You don’t get out of the car if you are in fear

Women generally don't. Guys often do. Its a guy thing, you wouldn't understand.

1,261 posted on 07/01/2013 3:14:02 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Hold the pig steady)
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To: Mr Rogers

most women (and metrosexuals) are taught to wait for the government to come and save them.


1,262 posted on 07/01/2013 3:14:43 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: RummyChick

“Would you get out of the car if you were afraid while a big black thug who looked high was confronting you “

I missed that part of the testimony where St Travon challenged George while George was in his car.

Glad you pointed out that fact.

Oh. . .wait. . .


1,263 posted on 07/01/2013 3:15:07 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: AllAmericanGirl44

Answer this SIMPLE question.

According to the interrogation tape, was he afraid in his car or not?


1,264 posted on 07/01/2013 3:15:09 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick
You have the time line wrong.
TM got away from GZ.
GZ did get out of the car to see where TM went, and to be sure of where he was, looking for a street sign.
Also?
Again, some of us try to do the right thing, even if we are afraid or scared.
1,265 posted on 07/01/2013 3:15:55 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: RummyChick

Huge difference between being afraid and fearing for your life.

GZ was armed, so mere fear was not going to keep him in his car when his job was neighborhood watch.

He was on his way back to his car, as per 911 operator’s instructions when Trey attacked him, right?


1,266 posted on 07/01/2013 3:16:05 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: MortMan

Gosh, buffering IS storing in transient memory.


1,267 posted on 07/01/2013 3:16:10 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: SauronOfMordor

AGAIN, it is females that are deciding his fate.


1,268 posted on 07/01/2013 3:16:15 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

Let’s say GZ was convinced that TM was a threat to the neighborhood, which he must have been to make a call to the police. That was his mindset, a suspicious stranger in the neighborhood, looking around with his face concealed in the rain. The guy disappears.........so GM had two options, try to keep him in his sights for when the police arrived or get in his car, go on to the store and allow what he believed to be a danger to the community roam the streets. Next morning....an entire family is found dead in a ransacked home. As for Don West’s opening knock knock joke, I finally get it.


1,269 posted on 07/01/2013 3:16:46 PM PDT by Toespi
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To: Jeff Winston
Has the prosecution gotten to the last of its witnesses?

At this point, I'm still waiting for them to present the first of their witnesses.

1,270 posted on 07/01/2013 3:17:02 PM PDT by Chesterbelloc
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To: RummyChick
I want an answer about the smothering versus screams then the shot.

I want to know why he got out of the car if he was in fear for his life.

Would you???

Is that it? Is that all?

1. An incident that takes place over 90 seconds allows plenty of time for 40 seconds of screaming and 15 seconds of smothering.

2. He wasn't in fear for his life when he got out of the car. Fear for his life began when he was violently punched in the face, probably breaking his nose, and when a guy got on top of him and started pounding his face and slamming his head into the concrete.

1,271 posted on 07/01/2013 3:17:08 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: IChing

If the Florida Stand Your Ground statute is in play, then GZ was not in the wrong to be where he was when he was attacked. 776.013 (3).

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html


1,272 posted on 07/01/2013 3:17:28 PM PDT by savedbygrace (But God.)
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To: RummyChick

WHO CARES!
I made many citizens arrests when I was in retail, years ago.
I was scared a few times but I still did what I thought was right at the time.
You have lived a sheltered life, or you have lived as a complete coward, if you think that George Zimmerman or the rest of us should allow fear to dictate our actions.


1,273 posted on 07/01/2013 3:17:29 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Cboldt

You misunderstand my intent. It was a reasonable question within the scope of the interview, which was to break GZ’s story.


1,274 posted on 07/01/2013 3:18:11 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: RummyChick

Can you please go get some fresh air? Your incessant posts about the same damn point is annoying the he** outta me!

I can’t answer your question as you pose it because I did NOT hear it that way. What you are reading from tweets and whatnot is giving you a very tainted opinion!

Now stop going in circles and catch your breath. I will have an answer for you when I take time to review it again.

Right now I’m enjoying the simple fact that Serino clearly stated that NOTHING GZ said was a lie, in his opinion.
Tell me, what do the tweets say about that?


1,275 posted on 07/01/2013 3:18:22 PM PDT by AllAmericanGirl44 ('Hey citizen, what's in YOUR closet?')
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To: RummyChick

I sure hope there are more females on the jury like me than like you.


1,276 posted on 07/01/2013 3:18:28 PM PDT by beandog (All Aboard the Choo Choo Train to Crazy Town)
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To: RummyChick
GZ said he was afraid while in the car

So what? You see a suspicious person and what should you do? Run away every time?

Translate your theory that George Zimmerman was supposedly NOT afraid when he got out of his car to investigate a suspicious person in the dark and in the rain into "Malice Aforethought." Tell me how you get from Zimmerman being unafraid (which I doubt) to malicious intent to kill?

I'll be here all night.

1,277 posted on 07/01/2013 3:19:04 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.ca)
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To: Jeff Winston
No. It'll have some DNA and other forensics, probably Sybrina to identify the scream as Trayvon. Maybe Tracy too, to inoculate against a defense claim that the state deliberately didn't call Tracy. On the forensics, gunshot (Ass't Prosecutor Guy said the state would prove that Zimmerman pressed the muzzle of the gun tight to Martin's chest) will come into play. Some short appearance by the medical examiner as to cause of death.

I think the state may also present evidence of the DV complaint against Zimmerman, as well as his arrest for assault on a plainclothes Alcoholic Beverage enforcer. O'Mara has objected to those as time wasters, but he's ready to "go there" if the judge admits it and the state wants to play hardball.

I think that's it. The state will take all of this short week, maybe some more starting after the four day weekend. The jury is going to be pissed at the state for sequestration on a case that has no merit.

1,278 posted on 07/01/2013 3:19:25 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Solson
I see them, too when I drive through the city. I roll up my windows in hope of deflecting a bullet.

And I'm not kidding...2 murders two days ago. Rochester NY

1,279 posted on 07/01/2013 3:19:32 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Kansas58

Well stated.


1,280 posted on 07/01/2013 3:20:36 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: snarkytart
I think he was "common sense" afraid, i.e., cautious may be the better word....

Did the interrogator feed him the word...I'll betcha...

1,281 posted on 07/01/2013 3:21:12 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: onyx

Yes there is a difference between being afraid and fearing for your life.
And what did GZ say about what was happening and how he felt while he was in the car???

Any lawyer who doesn’t recognize that he better be trying to fix this ..isn’t a very good lawyer...

But O’Mara knows..and you can tell by his questions..even if many of you don’t think the tape is a problem.


1,282 posted on 07/01/2013 3:22:22 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: P-Marlowe

Good Heavens, I have MSNBC on in the background, and some of our posters would fit in well with Rev. Al and the rest of the libs, those people are nuts!


1,283 posted on 07/01/2013 3:22:46 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: RummyChick
You don’t get out of the car if you are in fear

You do if you have a higher motivation that overrides that fear.

Man. If you do nothing you're afraid of, that limits the HELL out of your life.

People do stuff they're afraid of all the time.

Public speaking. Confronting a relative. Going before the boss and asking for a raise. Making a sales call. Taking a business risk. Jumping off the cliff into the water.

Brave people do, at least.

Brave people face fear and do something anyway, if there's some good reason to do it.

Sheesh.

1,284 posted on 07/01/2013 3:23:50 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: P-Marlowe

Very well done PM - I doubt you will gain any clarity as it seems the answers are based on ‘tweets’.

This case has me in tears, watching a man’s life torn apart for the black pampers who put a bounty on him. Sickening reflection of that successful welfare state mentality.


1,285 posted on 07/01/2013 3:23:54 PM PDT by AllAmericanGirl44 ('Hey citizen, what's in YOUR closet?')
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To: RummyChick

Every single day, cops, firemen, soldiers, and other guys do things despite fear, because it’s the job they’ve volunteered to do. Even though it makes no sense to you, just accept it. Guys aren’t rational by your standards. Just be grateful we aren’t.


1,286 posted on 07/01/2013 3:24:37 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Hold the pig steady)
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To: snarkytart
BINGO! Usually the roles are reversed,

Yep...And it's glaring in this case.

I am really glad Obama was stupid enough to inject himself into this, attempt to sway this, while pushing his worn out race agenda.

1,287 posted on 07/01/2013 3:24:54 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: P-Marlowe

“Translate your theory that George Zimmerman was supposedly NOT afraid when he got out of his car “

GZ said he was afraid when he was in the car..didn’t he???

Jesus H Christ..can none of you understand that O’Mara better be smart enough to see what the female jury could think about that interrogation tape..

and he is smart enough.

If you don’t get it..start listening to actual lawyers..

even if you don’t agree with them..if they think it..the jury could think it.


1,288 posted on 07/01/2013 3:24:56 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: Hulka
Zimmerman said so in his interviews, and on the NEN call. Suspicious guy checking him out, hands in.on waistband. Asked why he didn't roll his window down, said the guy was out of earshot range - so I figure a good 2o foot range anyway.

Then the guy ran. He ran out of sight. And after that, Zimmerman got out of his car.

He didn't get out of his car while the guy was staring him down. Why not? He was asked. Because he didn't want to confront him.

People that have a hard time figuring this case out, on the facts, are addlepated.

1,289 posted on 07/01/2013 3:25:25 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: RummyChick

Tell ya what RC, since you keep ASKING the same question, I’m inclined to believe YOU do NOT know the answer. Am I close?

Maybe instead of reading tweets, you can go listen to the tape yourself, and then YOU can answer the question you keep asking over and over....and over...and over...and over...


1,290 posted on 07/01/2013 3:26:16 PM PDT by AllAmericanGirl44 ('Hey citizen, what's in YOUR closet?')
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To: RummyChick

i am a woman. afraid or not if i was neighborhood watchwoman yes i would gotten out of my car. police and fireman feel fear. are you saying they should hide? i am not getting you logic. he was tasked with a security job. he didnt run and hide nor should he.


1,291 posted on 07/01/2013 3:26:48 PM PDT by Donnafrflorida (Thru HIM all things are possible.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Record: 1. to set down in writing or the like, as for the purpose of preserving evidence.

Preservation is the opposite of transient, which is the obfuscation you appear to be involved in. Good luck with that...

Those of us who understand the physics AND the electronics know better.

1,292 posted on 07/01/2013 3:27:12 PM PDT by MortMan (Disarming the sheep only emboldens the wolves.)
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To: Cboldt

Said walked around his car.

What does “challenge” mean to you versus a normal person.


1,293 posted on 07/01/2013 3:27:34 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: onyx
Nobody told Zimmerman where to go. He was not told to go back to his car. He was told he did not need to follow, and that was expressly not an order. he was not "on watch" He was on his way to the store and noticed somebody other than Frank Taffe, standing on Frank Taffe's yard, looking at Frank Taffe's house. This made his suspicious.

Zimmerman was on his way back to his car, if you believe his version of events (I do), when martin approached him out of the dark, from behind, and confronted him verbally, and committed battery.

1,294 posted on 07/01/2013 3:28:50 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: RummyChick

You’re off on a tangent the prosecution didn’t go.

It’s not about fear.

It’s about inconsistencies in GZ interviews which are scant.


1,295 posted on 07/01/2013 3:29:08 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: AllAmericanGirl44; RummyChick

http://www.examiner.com/article/george-zimmerman-s-911-call-transcribed

Here is the transcript from the 911 call while Z in his car, and then follows Martin after he runs. The text does not show Z with any fear. Even after M staring at him, he goes on about directions to the clubhouse, etc. The only time he gets excited is when Martin takes off.

Excerpt:

Do you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman: Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher: He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.

Zimmerman: Now he’s staring at me. [00:48]

911 dispatcher: OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman: That’s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher: He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman: Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03]

911 dispatcher: How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman: He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.

911 dispatcher: Late teens?

Zimmerman: Uh, huh.

Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20]

911 dispatcher: Let me know if he does anything, OK?

Zimmerman: OK.

911 dispatcher: We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman: OK.

These assholes. They always get away.
When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]

911 dispatcher: OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman: Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.

He’s running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman: Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

911 dispatcher: OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?

Zimmerman: The back entrance. (Mutters F-ing something. Some think “coons”) [2:22]

911 dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher: OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman: OK. [2:28]

911 dispatcher: Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

Zimmerman: George. He ran.

911 dispatcher: Alright, George, what’s your last name?

Zimmerman: Zimmerman.

911 dispatcher: What’s the phone number you’re calling from?

Zimmerman: redacted

911 dispatcher: Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman: Yeah.

911 dispatcher: Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman:

Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]

911 dispatcher: Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman: Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address. [3:25]

911 dispatcher: OK, do you live in the area?

Zimmerman: Yeah, yeah, I live here.

911 dispatcher: OK, what’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman: It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]

911 dispatcher: OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher: Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …

Zimmerman: Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]

911 dispatcher: OK, that’s no problem.

Zimmerman: My number … you’ve got it?

911 dispatcher: Yeah, I’ve got it.

Zimmerman: Yeah, you got it.

911 dispatcher: OK, no problem. I’ll let them know to call you when they’re in the area. [4:02]

Zimmerman: Thanks.

911 dispatcher: You’re welcome.

The call ends 4:07

Above was a transcription of Zimmerman’s call to 911 moments before he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. It was transcribed to the best of the transcriber’s abilities, and is not meant to replace any official tran


1,296 posted on 07/01/2013 3:29:16 PM PDT by 21twelve ("We've got the guns, and we got the numbers" adapted and revised from Jim M.)
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To: RummyChick
But you can’t underestimate a female jury wondering why GZ got out of that car when he said he was afraid.

Well.... if those women jurors have strong, dependable husbands or fathers maybe they could understand GZ getting out of his car in an effort to seek security for his neighborhood....they don't have to put themselves in his place - they should think of what a *man* (not an Anderson Cooper type man - but a *man*) would do! imo

1,297 posted on 07/01/2013 3:30:02 PM PDT by Momto2 (I am praying for Israel...)
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To: Cboldt

Yes, told not to follow.
My error.


1,298 posted on 07/01/2013 3:30:03 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: RummyChick

GZ was not inside his car when TM came back and jumped him. you are acting as if GZ was sitting in his car and TM was walking around the car and GZ got out of his car. GZ was already out when TM came back to confront him.


1,299 posted on 07/01/2013 3:30:13 PM PDT by snarkytart
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To: Toespi
-- Let's say GZ was convinced that TM was a threat to the neighborhood, which he must have been to make a call to the police. --

He'd be the first to say that he wasn't convinced, he was suspicious, and thought it warranted being checked out. Not a safe neighborhood, if you look at the statistics. Lots of burglary, one hot burglary in the past months.

1,300 posted on 07/01/2013 3:30:41 PM PDT by Cboldt
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