Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

New 'armor piercing' ammo legislation might outlaw nearly all rifle ammunition
Examiner.com ^ | 7/1/13 | KURT HOFMANN

Posted on 07/02/2013 9:22:10 AM PDT by barmag25

Edited on 07/02/2013 9:24:52 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Tucson Gun Rights Examiner Chris Woodard alerted readers Friday to some of the most recently introduced federal gun bills (both anti-rights and pro-rights). In fact, his Constitution Watch blog is a great resource for keeping current on pending federal gun legislation. Today, we will focus on Representative Jackie Speier's (D-CA) H.R. 2566, the "Modernized Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act of 2013."

The text is not yet available, so the look will necessarily be somewhat cursory, but there are some assumptions that are probably safe to make.

For one thing, we can almost certainly assume that by "armor piercing," Rep. Speier means that the ammunition is capable of defeating soft body armor, like that worn by cops on the beat, rather than the much heavier and bulkier rigid body armor worn by combat troops and S.W.A.T. team personnel. To be considered "armor piercing," in other words, the ammunition would need only, at most, to defeat Level IIIa armor (if Speier lowers the standard below that, even more ammunition would be banned). In fact, Speier makes that pretty clear in her press release, which talks about "first responders," rather than soldiers:

[excerpt]


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: ammo; armorpiercing; banglist; california; guncontrol; guns; jackiespeier; kkkalifornia; secondamendment
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-72 next last

1 posted on 07/02/2013 9:22:11 AM PDT by barmag25
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: barmag25

I’m not surprised.


2 posted on 07/02/2013 9:26:35 AM PDT by wastedyears (I'm a gamer not because I choose to have no life, but because I choose to have many.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

Anyone who has an AK74 is now screwed. Russian ammo like Silver Bear and Wolf are steel core and armor piercing. Looks like I will have to re-barrel my AK. I am not happy to hear this.


3 posted on 07/02/2013 9:26:48 AM PDT by InsidiousMongo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

It looks like a lot of us are about to become outlaws.


4 posted on 07/02/2013 9:29:49 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo

Let’s not panic yet! Spier has about as much chance of getting this legislation to go anywhere as Hank Johnson does his anti-Guam is going to Tip Over Bill. With Spier, it’s just a shame that Jim Jones shooters weren’t good enough. She’s the leftover trash.


5 posted on 07/02/2013 9:30:44 AM PDT by vette6387
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo
Looks like I will have to re-barrel my AK. I am not happy to hear this.

If this legislation passed you would have to shoot wad cutters out of your AK.

Almost any fully jacketed rifle round will penetrate soft police body armor.

6 posted on 07/02/2013 9:30:46 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

These bastards just wont stop.


7 posted on 07/02/2013 9:31:09 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo
"Russian ammo like Silver Bear and Wolf"

Can't we get Putin to fix this?

8 posted on 07/02/2013 9:31:34 AM PDT by Paladin2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo
Russian ammo like Silver Bear and Wolf are steel core

I believe you are confusing the steel case with a steel core.

9 posted on 07/02/2013 9:32:28 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo

Only re-barrel it after you have shot it out by giving back your ammo, one bullet at a time.


10 posted on 07/02/2013 9:33:16 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

Just about any rifle round will go thru soft body armor.


11 posted on 07/02/2013 9:35:05 AM PDT by Zathras
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: barmag25
This reflects what the administration is most afraid of, an armed citizenry.
Which in turn shows clearly what they feel guilty about.
If they governed in the interest of the American people they would have no reason to fear farmers with rifles.

12 posted on 07/02/2013 9:38:16 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

the commies will just define armour as “human skin” and ban all ammo.

next, armour piercing swords.


13 posted on 07/02/2013 9:38:40 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

Another foolishly thought out proposal by a GFW?

The quality of armor and the armor piercing power of different types of ammunition are highly variable and ever changing.


14 posted on 07/02/2013 9:39:36 AM PDT by Iron Munro (Welcome to Obama-Land - EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zathras

How many police were killed with armor piercing bullets last year I wonder? I would guess zero. They’re prepping their battlefield. They know what’s coming eventually and they’re stacking the deck in their favor ahead of it.


15 posted on 07/02/2013 9:39:50 AM PDT by RC one
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: RC one

Trying to, anyway.


16 posted on 07/02/2013 9:44:13 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo
Anyone who has an AK74 is now screwed. Russian ammo like Silver Bear and Wolf are steel core and armor piercing. Looks like I will have to re-barrel my AK. I am not happy to hear this.

Uh oh. Someone didn't take their dyslexia pill this morning.
17 posted on 07/02/2013 9:44:38 AM PDT by Old Yeller (Cracker Barrel is racist and I demand that they change their name.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

I’ve already seen this movie. It’s the old KTW “cop killer bullet” crap, resurrected for a new audience. I guess they think Americans have become sufficiently stupidified and brainwashed for it to work.


18 posted on 07/02/2013 9:45:24 AM PDT by VR-21 (I'm weary of being lorded over by criminals and gilded degenerates.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BitWielder1

As a friend once said, “If the government is so worried about a civil disturbance, they are the trying so hard to disturb us?”


19 posted on 07/02/2013 9:45:48 AM PDT by Dutch Boy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: barmag25


20 posted on 07/02/2013 9:48:22 AM PDT by Iron Munro (Welcome to Obama-Land - EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Old Yeller

Read up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74


21 posted on 07/02/2013 9:51:04 AM PDT by filospinato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: thackney

Please, go on any ammunition website that sells Wolf WPA Classic and Silver Bear and read the description of the bullet. I am fully aware that almost all ammo in 5.45x39 is steel cased. I’ve only owned the gun for several years and shot several thousands of rounds out of it.


22 posted on 07/02/2013 9:52:25 AM PDT by InsidiousMongo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac
Almost any fully jacketed rifle round will penetrate soft police body armor.

As will 7.62x25 (.30 Tokarev) pistol ammo.

JG Sales has Romanian TTC 33 pistols for $219. Ammo - don't know...

23 posted on 07/02/2013 9:52:33 AM PDT by Noumenon (What would Michael Collins do?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Zathras; barmag25

Correct. No body armor less than Class III (with a hard trauma plate) is even rated against rifle fire. Most police wear Class IIIA, which is effective against pistol fire only. Even rifles chambered in pistol calibers can defeat Class IIIA. The only soft armor rated against rifle fire is Class IV which is supposedly effective against 7.62x51 NATO and .30-06. But Class IV is very expensive and uncommon outside of SWAT units.


24 posted on 07/02/2013 9:52:39 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac

Correct. Most 5.56 and .223 out there can penetrate level III. However, to make it a point, when there’s ammo out there like XM855 available for purchase by consumers in addition to 5.45x39, rest assured those will be the first targeted by the politicians to be outlawed.


25 posted on 07/02/2013 9:54:17 AM PDT by InsidiousMongo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo

Virtually all rifle rounds will penetrate IIIa armor, steel-core or otherwise.


26 posted on 07/02/2013 9:56:48 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo ( Walker 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Noumenon

7.62x25 is awfully hard to find these days. My only source recently dried up. J&G was selling Polish surplus before Christmas, but that is now gone too.


27 posted on 07/02/2013 9:56:59 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Zathras
I was thinking along the same lines. Our sorry elected "leaders" are really jumpy about the unwashed having guns/ammo.

Really not much for them to worry about unless somebody comes up with a Dumb-azz penetrating round.

28 posted on 07/02/2013 9:57:29 AM PDT by skimbell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

Next step is to ban all ammo capable of penetrating denim or a t-shirt.


29 posted on 07/02/2013 9:58:33 AM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of oppression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RC one
They’re prepping their battlefield. They know what’s coming eventually and they’re stacking the deck in their favor ahead of it.

Bingo. What, you think the DH-Stapo is buying billions of rounds of ammo for a long 20 year range session at Bob's Guns and Tackle?

30 posted on 07/02/2013 9:59:36 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo ( Walker 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: null and void
Next step is to ban all ammo capable of penetrating denim or a t-shirt.

OR A "HOODIE".

31 posted on 07/02/2013 10:05:38 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

Wonder if they’ll eventually legislate to ban supersonic rounds.


32 posted on 07/02/2013 10:06:38 AM PDT by lurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DuncanWaring

It looks like a lot of us are about to become outlaws.
>>>>>>>>>

When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you - you know your nation is doomed.

-Ayn Rand


33 posted on 07/02/2013 10:06:59 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it. Their minds have been stolen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Iron Munro

not politicians, TYRANTS. more accurate. drives the point home.


34 posted on 07/02/2013 10:19:27 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

Next you know, they’ll even make the M2-AP Garand Food illegal.


35 posted on 07/02/2013 10:21:02 AM PDT by Elderberry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jboot

even with the armor ribs/bones will be broken by absorbing the force of the round.


36 posted on 07/02/2013 10:21:16 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo

Steel cased means the steel is not in the bullet. It is the “case” that holds the bullet, primer and powder.

I’ve shot it as well. The bimetal bullet is lead jacketed with copper.


37 posted on 07/02/2013 10:24:56 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Dutch Boy
Exactly.
When DHS are labeling "The Militias", homecoming veterans, NRA, the TEA Party and legal gun owners as threats, it tells me DHS knows perfectly well who the administration's policies are going to tick off.
None of those groups are a threat to the homeland, to USA, we all know that.
These are all defensive orgs and the government is clearly the aggressor here, in the conflict they are trying to provoke.

38 posted on 07/02/2013 10:26:53 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo

XM855 isn’t for penetrating soft armor. As already stated, any standard 5.56 round will penetrate IIIa soft armor or lighter. The primary reason the military designed the XM855 is to penetrate an old steel military helmets at 500 meters, since the ball they were using at the time couldn’t do that.


39 posted on 07/02/2013 10:31:43 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo ( Walker 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Elderberry

It might as well be already. I haven’t seen a source for that stuff in years.


40 posted on 07/02/2013 10:38:17 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Thane_Banquo
That’s why the green tips are my preference. I figure they’ll do the job on blue helmets as well. Available for .60/rd, best get em while you can. If you’re really lucky occasionally Walmart has them even now for $175/440 rd can.
41 posted on 07/02/2013 10:42:16 AM PDT by Tail Gunner John
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: thackney

A lot of Russian ammo is steel core with a copper jacket. Probably because it’s cheaper for them.


42 posted on 07/02/2013 10:42:46 AM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be what you might have been.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: jboot

M2-AP is Not defined as armor piercing as it is of composite construction. It has a lead nosed core, so it didn’t fit their legal definition. And yes, you can still buy it.
Surplus only, of course.


43 posted on 07/02/2013 10:43:40 AM PDT by Elderberry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Thane_Banquo

My whole purpose of pointing out the XM855 was because that will be the first round the politicians will outlaw because of its ballistic characteristics. All you need is someone in the legislature to say that all steel core ammo penetrates all types of armor, and the Libs will institute a moratorium on all sales of it in addition to banning it.


44 posted on 07/02/2013 10:45:52 AM PDT by InsidiousMongo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Secret Agent Man
even with the armor ribs/bones will be broken by absorbing the force of the round.

… does wanting [white] phosphorus-tipped steel-cored ammo make me evil?

45 posted on 07/02/2013 10:45:59 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: barmag25

What? Latest armored vehicle uses Reynolds wrap as armor plating?


46 posted on 07/02/2013 11:05:05 AM PDT by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Elderberry

I have not seem M2 blacktip offerred for sale (other than singly as a collector’s item) in at least 5 years. Did CMP recently get some in from overseas?


47 posted on 07/02/2013 11:13:11 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Sender

Don’t I know it. Back in the ‘90s when comblock steel core fodder was $.05 a round I got tossed out of a lot of ranges. The range officers would go nuts when they saw the sparks. They frequently assumed that I was shooting explosive ammo.


48 posted on 07/02/2013 11:16:45 AM PDT by jboot (It can happen here because it IS happening here.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: InsidiousMongo
Looks like I will have to re-barrel my AK. I am not happy to hear this.

You couldn't. Level 3A is not rated to stop rifle rounds.

This will never pass anyways so I'm not going to waste anymore Internet on it.

49 posted on 07/02/2013 11:44:00 AM PDT by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Zathras
Just about any rifle round will go thru soft body armor.

Exactly. They are talking about an end to hunting with anything but a shotgun or .22 rimfire.

50 posted on 07/02/2013 11:44:02 AM PDT by TigersEye ("No man left behind" is more than an Army Ranger credo it's the character of America.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-72 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson