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New 'armor piercing' ammo legislation might outlaw nearly all rifle ammunition
Examiner.com ^ | 7/1/13 | KURT HOFMANN

Posted on 07/02/2013 9:22:10 AM PDT by barmag25

Edited on 07/02/2013 9:24:52 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Tucson Gun Rights Examiner Chris Woodard alerted readers Friday to some of the most recently introduced federal gun bills (both anti-rights and pro-rights). In fact, his Constitution Watch blog is a great resource for keeping current on pending federal gun legislation. Today, we will focus on Representative Jackie Speier's (D-CA) H.R. 2566, the "Modernized Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act of 2013."

The text is not yet available, so the look will necessarily be somewhat cursory, but there are some assumptions that are probably safe to make.

For one thing, we can almost certainly assume that by "armor piercing," Rep. Speier means that the ammunition is capable of defeating soft body armor, like that worn by cops on the beat, rather than the much heavier and bulkier rigid body armor worn by combat troops and S.W.A.T. team personnel. To be considered "armor piercing," in other words, the ammunition would need only, at most, to defeat Level IIIa armor (if Speier lowers the standard below that, even more ammunition would be banned). In fact, Speier makes that pretty clear in her press release, which talks about "first responders," rather than soldiers:

[excerpt]


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: ammo; armorpiercing; banglist; california; guncontrol; guns; jackiespeier; kkkalifornia; secondamendment
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To: jboot

CMP No.

ammogarand.com is “The Place!”


51 posted on 07/02/2013 12:13:01 PM PDT by Elderberry
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To: skimbell
I was thinking along the same lines. Our sorry elected "leaders" are really jumpy about the unwashed having guns/ammo.
Really not much for them to worry about unless somebody comes up with a Dumb-azz penetrating roun

Maybe there's something in the NSA's surveillance that's scaring them. (i.e. the general tone of the average citizen when certain topics come up.)

52 posted on 07/02/2013 12:21:48 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Pontiac

Does anyone know if a 12 guage deer sabot will penetrate body armor?


53 posted on 07/02/2013 12:26:00 PM PDT by Tenacious 1 (If the government told us to expect rain, I'd schedule an outdoor wedding.)
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To: Azeem

This will never pass anyways so I’m not going to waste anymore Internet on it.


You’re right. And if it did pass....look out.


54 posted on 07/02/2013 12:31:01 PM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it. Their minds have been stolen.)
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To: Tenacious 1
Does anyone know if a 12 guage deer sabot will penetrate body armor?

I don’t know for sure but I doubt that a slug would penetrate body armor.

Soft body armor is designed specifically for that type of projectile; large, low velocity and large frontal area are what Kevlar webbing is designed to stop.

But the energy that a 12 gauge slug carries would have to be absorbed some way. You may not be killed by the slug penetrating your body but you may be killed by a broken rib penetrating your lung or heart.

55 posted on 07/02/2013 1:23:26 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

Shotgun slugs destroying an engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA6qbkKPH6Q


56 posted on 07/02/2013 2:02:36 PM PDT by Elderberry
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To: Elderberry
Shotgun slugs destroying an engine.

No doubt a deer slug will destroy an engine block, but an engine block is a brittle metallic object where a human body covered with a inch of soft Kevlar body armor is a pliable object.

Engine blocks break rather than bend when absorbing mechanical energy. Human bodies covered with Kevlar deform before breaking when absorbing mechanical energy.

57 posted on 07/02/2013 2:22:57 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

You’re right. Totally different material.

I sure wouldn’t want to get hit by one, not even with a trauma plate.


58 posted on 07/02/2013 2:31:00 PM PDT by Elderberry
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To: barmag25

Sorry, only a Moron would think that body armor defeats “Congress shall make no infringement on the right...”

But then, Moron accurately describes someone who votes on a bill to fine out what is in it.

While Congress is at it, How about you vote that the moon really is cheese, and unicorns are the new racehorses.


59 posted on 07/02/2013 2:36:06 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Elderberry
I sure wouldn’t want to get hit by one, not even with a trauma plate.

We can agree on that no question.

60 posted on 07/02/2013 2:48:13 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks barmag25.


61 posted on 07/02/2013 5:04:23 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Pontiac

Exactly this.

That said, nobody has developed a slug-proof helmet visor yet...


62 posted on 07/02/2013 11:34:21 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Old Yeller

There is such a thing as an AK74


63 posted on 07/03/2013 2:06:58 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: InsidiousMongo

Federal (Olin) apparently has quite a bit of excess ammo in XM855 (SS109) from its Lake City Plant.

Within the last 4 months I’ve gotten two 30 cal ammo cans of it from WalMart of all places. They sold it for $175 for 420 rounds, packed in stripper clips - they even give you the ammo can and a stripper clip guide for the magazine.
A great buy! I saw the exact same thing ranging from $300-$400 at other places during that time.


64 posted on 07/03/2013 2:10:51 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Elderberry

Black tips? I’ve got a bandolier of that. Great ammo


65 posted on 07/03/2013 2:12:46 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: thackney
Steel-jacketed bullets[edit] In addition to using steel casing, certain types of Wolf rifle cartridges use steel jacketed bullets, which are often copper-plated and cosmetically similar to standard copper-jacketed bullets. The copper exterior of the bullet is approximately .005 inch thick, with an underlying steel jacket of about 1/32 inch thick. This type of ammunition is labeled "bimetal". Indoor shooting ranges, which use backstops often constructed of steel, have accordingly widely prohibited steel-jacketed and bimetal ammunition to prevent shooters from damaging their backstops

From a Google on it. The range I shoot at banned them because of the underlying steel jacket's potential to cause excessive wear on their backstop.

66 posted on 07/03/2013 2:17:37 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Pontiac

My thoughts, too. At the very least, the wearer would likely be knocked off his feet.


67 posted on 07/03/2013 2:19:03 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Spktyr

That’s right. Center mass-only discipline isn’t always such a good idea.


68 posted on 07/03/2013 2:21:04 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

Thanks, so not a steel core, but a thin steel jacket.


69 posted on 07/03/2013 4:39:34 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Gaffer

The impact itself is not going to bowl him over (otherwise the shooter would be knocked down when firing as well - basic physics) but the blunt force impact will shock his nervous system as well as knock the breath out of him. At the very least, the armored attacker (remember, actual criminals now show up in illegally obtained body armor too) is suddenly going to have other priorities for a while. Like trying to breathe with a shock-paralyzed diaphragm.

So, yeah, not likely to penetrate Kevlar but the recipient is still not going to be able to continue the engagement for at least several minutes.


70 posted on 07/03/2013 5:10:51 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

I concede to the basic physics part, but the shooter is braced, or should be. It makes a difference. You can see the effects of not being braced on YouTube. One in particular response to Biden’s Shotgun comment. It is very funny.


71 posted on 07/03/2013 5:48:06 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: thackney

That’s what they say. The copper plating is just there to put less wear on the barrel/rifling.

The XM855s (SS109s) have a steel rod in the center.


72 posted on 07/03/2013 5:49:32 AM PDT by Gaffer
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