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Jury weighing Zimmerman's fate asks question about manslaughter option
CNN ^ | 7/13/13 | Mariano Castillo and Greg Botelho

Posted on 07/13/2013 3:17:06 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks

(CNN) -- After more than 12 hours of deliberation, the six women deliberating George Zimmerman's fate asked the court Saturday evening for clarification on the instructions regarding manslaughter, the judge said.

That couldn't have even been a question a few days ago: Judge Debra Nelson ruled Thursday, over the defense's vehement objection, to include manslaughter as an option for jurors, in addition to the second-degree murder charge. Their third option would be to find Zimmerman not guilty.

The question -- which was read out in court, without the jurors present, shortly before 6 p.m. -- was the first posed by the jury since late Friday afternoon, when they requested an inventory of evidence. Afterward, lawyers from both sides approached Nelson's bench; their comments could not be heard.

How long other juries deliberated for in other high-profile cases One of 1,009 fatal shootings in Florida in 2012, Trayvon Martin's death stood out -- the various threads of the story helping to capture the public imagination.

There was, for instance, the fact that an adult had fired on an unarmed teen, soon after police told him not to follow the 17-year-old. And there was the accusation of racial profiling: that Zimmerman -- the son of a Peruvian mother and a white American father, who identifies as Hispanic -- had singled out Martin, at least in part, because the teenager was black.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: blackkk; florida; georgezimmerman; kangaroocourt; martin; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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This is not good news...
1 posted on 07/13/2013 3:17:06 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: Clint N. Suhks
1,532 replies and counting
2 posted on 07/13/2013 3:19:07 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Yup! It looks as though the girls intend to give Holder’s Black Pampers something to keep them cooled down.


3 posted on 07/13/2013 3:19:35 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (If America is a nation of immigrants, where's my free stuff?)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Lesser charge is BS. That’s not the charge he was on trial for. Prosecutors doing this piss me off.


4 posted on 07/13/2013 3:19:37 PM PDT by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Does anyone know if they have to find him not guilty of murder before moving on to manslaughter?


5 posted on 07/13/2013 3:20:37 PM PDT by GrootheWanderer
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To: Clint N. Suhks

It’s not horrible either.
My guess is that at least one person wants that option and there is a disagreement over whether the facts here make manslaughter an appropriate choice.
If all six wanted to take that option they wouldn’t have asked for clarification.


6 posted on 07/13/2013 3:21:10 PM PDT by Clump ( the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: Clint N. Suhks
Looks like they are going to try and hang some minor conviction on him, not good.

He should cop a walk.

And then sue the media blind.

7 posted on 07/13/2013 3:22:12 PM PDT by Not now, Not ever! (Girlfriend suggested I use pelosi in place of swear words, A good idea, I think)
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To: Clint N. Suhks
soon after police told him not to follow

FALSE.

8 posted on 07/13/2013 3:22:14 PM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

IMO the fact that they didn’t declare him not guilty within an hour means the jurors are idiots.


9 posted on 07/13/2013 3:22:49 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Unfortunately, my expectation has been conviction for manslaughter, since that would give the jury cover for not finding him guilty of murder. Some have to realize that this wasn’t a 2nd degree murder case, and wouldn’t have been able to pull the trigger for that charge.

They can’t just do what sensible people know is right: acquittal.


10 posted on 07/13/2013 3:22:58 PM PDT by DJ Frisat ((optional, printed after my name on post))
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To: Clint N. Suhks

The good news is that it looks as if 2nd degree murder is out. Now he is down to manslaughter. I think he walks.


11 posted on 07/13/2013 3:23:26 PM PDT by buffaloguy
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To: Clint N. Suhks

You offer 3 choices to people, 90% will pick the middle one. It’s a dead lock this jury finds guilt of manslaughter. I won’t even take a bet. I’d be stealing money.


12 posted on 07/13/2013 3:23:32 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Clint N. Suhks

I’ve been saying all along that the wildcard here is the all female jury. I cannot believe the defense allowed this to happen. This is a very simple case. Most of what was presented was fluff and distraction. The fact that they are asking this question and that they have been out so long indicates that they are way over-thinking this thing. Emotion is ruling over logic.


13 posted on 07/13/2013 3:24:10 PM PDT by slumber1 (My real name is Rusty Shackleford)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Reversal on appeal seems automatic. Let us hope...


14 posted on 07/13/2013 3:25:13 PM PDT by szweig (HYHEY!! (Have You Had Enough Yet))
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To: Clump

I’m guessing its about 4 for not guilty and two for guilty of something. I am thinking hung jury at this point. I just cannot believe that 6 rational individuals would find GZ guilty of something like manslaughter.


15 posted on 07/13/2013 3:25:50 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

CNN’s reporting does not even come close to being nonpartisan. Don’t know why I’m surprised. Please excuse me for posting this.


16 posted on 07/13/2013 3:26:33 PM PDT by upchuck (To the faceless, jack-booted government bureaucrat who just scanned this post: SCREW YOU!)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Danger Will Robinson, Danger!

Remember this is CNN!!!

Expect nothing else than lies and distortion.


17 posted on 07/13/2013 3:26:58 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
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To: Clint N. Suhks
I believe this will end in a hung jury. One of the jurors will hold out knowing that she will be embraced and feted around the country as the lone protector of poor baby Trayvon.
18 posted on 07/13/2013 3:27:17 PM PDT by soupbone1
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To: Clint N. Suhks

While God is in control overall, these jurors can make irrational decisions of their own. I pray that the Lord will give them the same guts it took to hit the Normandy beaches, or win Pork Chop Hill. “Not guilty” is not the easy way out, here.


19 posted on 07/13/2013 3:27:28 PM PDT by imardmd1
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To: szweig

Kangaroo show court. This is despicable. It cannot stand!


20 posted on 07/13/2013 3:27:42 PM PDT by szweig (HYHEY!! (Have You Had Enough Yet))
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To: buffaloguy

They are under pressure to give ‘justice for Treycon’. They are thinking of their own lives too. IF they find him guilty of manslaughter...I believe they did it for themselves.


21 posted on 07/13/2013 3:28:46 PM PDT by Fawn (In a World of Information, Ignorance is a Choice.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Will the court tell the jury that the lesser charge carries a 25 year sentence?

Didn’t think so...


22 posted on 07/13/2013 3:28:50 PM PDT by null and void (Republicans create the tools of oppression, and the democrats gleefully use them!)
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To: buffaloguy

Buffaloguy, how do you go from Manslaughter to Walks? Manslaughter means Zimmerman HAS to spend time in prison just because he defended himself from a teenage thug who was set on murder? There is no manslaughter here - this is clear as day self-defense and this is a groundless show-trial!


23 posted on 07/13/2013 3:29:50 PM PDT by Ken522
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To: Clump

They could also be ‘compromising’ between Murder 2 and manslaughter....


24 posted on 07/13/2013 3:29:57 PM PDT by Fawn (In a World of Information, Ignorance is a Choice.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Prosecutorial misconduct and a slimy judge.... When reading the instructions, the judge spend 90% of her time explaining what constitutes Zimmerman’s guilt. Hardly any time was spent on explaining justifiable homicide and self-defense. I believe that Zimmerman is going to be convicted of man-slaughter because that’s what the state wants. I personally think Zimmerman is an idiot for not avoiding the confrontation in the first place, but he had every right to defend himself when attacked. There is no justice in this case, just state officials trying to avoid a riot.


25 posted on 07/13/2013 3:30:29 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

A hung jury would be alright with me.
Not as satisfying as a NG but with six women I’d sure take it.
They need 12 with a mix of backgrounds and at least one male.


26 posted on 07/13/2013 3:30:42 PM PDT by Clump ( the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: slumber1

I was troubled as to why Trayvon did not have any of Zimmerman’s blood on his hands.


27 posted on 07/13/2013 3:30:57 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: Fawn

Yep. And why at least 1 man should have served on the jury.


28 posted on 07/13/2013 3:31:16 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Clint N. Suhks
If Zim is charged with anything more than a parking ticket, the entire world will know the US Justice system is a joke, its courts the Kangaroo variety, and The Fix was in, the verdict controlled from DC.

0bama, Holder and the Black Panther Party may well get their way in this case and "win" this battle, but they will surely lose the PR war.

29 posted on 07/13/2013 3:31:26 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: ilovesarah2012

Does it really matter to you whether Treyvon had his hands over his mouth?


30 posted on 07/13/2013 3:31:59 PM PDT by Fawn (In a World of Information, Ignorance is a Choice.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

CNN still reporting police told Zimmerman to quit following him...the dispatcher said something like it wasn’t necessary, he was not instructed to not follow by anyone that I know of...


31 posted on 07/13/2013 3:32:22 PM PDT by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: Clump
If all six wanted to take that option they wouldn’t have asked for clarification.

Good point. Shows some differing views. And it appears there off 2nd degree and on to this...I say not guilty or hung jury

32 posted on 07/13/2013 3:32:24 PM PDT by Swanks
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To: Georgia Girl 2

I was thinking the same thing. 4 following the law and evidence and 2 following irrational emotions. Oh and I am a woman


33 posted on 07/13/2013 3:32:50 PM PDT by happyhomemaker (Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. Rom 12:12)
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To: DManA

I have thought that since yesterday. He had a lousy attorney, biased judge, and dishonest Prosecutor.


34 posted on 07/13/2013 3:34:16 PM PDT by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: Ken522

Is it possible this means they have decided Zimmerman is not guilty of murder and have moved on to considering manslaughter?

I don’t know how Florida works, but I’ve seen trials here where jurors found a defendant not guilty on the more serious charge then deadlocked on the lesser charge.

Is that possible here?


35 posted on 07/13/2013 3:34:23 PM PDT by GrootheWanderer
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To: 3Fingas
I personally think Zimmerman is an idiot for not avoiding the confrontation in the first place, but he had every right to defend himself when attacked.

Is that fence you're sitting on hurt much?

What will YOU do when you own home is being staked out by folks you d*mn well KNOW don't belong to the neighborhood OR across the street?

36 posted on 07/13/2013 3:34:44 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: GrootheWanderer
Is it possible this means they have decided Zimmerman is not guilty of murder and have moved on to considering manslaughter?

It's possible Bubba already knows Zim's underwear size.

37 posted on 07/13/2013 3:35:53 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

A middle ground decision of manslaughter getting 20+ years is no “compromise” b/w 2nd-DM at 30 years & full acquittal ... this obsession with trying to please everybody cannot be done at the expense of individual freedoms.


38 posted on 07/13/2013 3:37:17 PM PDT by mikrofon (Weekend BUMP)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3042252/posts?page=29#29


39 posted on 07/13/2013 3:38:36 PM PDT by carriage_hill (Guns kill people, pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk & spoons make you fat.)
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To: GrootheWanderer

Yes, it is very possible. The issue of right to defend his own life by the means at hand (a 9mm pistol) should be in their minds. There could be one or more of these women who believe George should be held responsible for an act that was completely legal and applied by Zimmerman because he thought someone was trying to kill him! The confusion is what Bernie the goat was hoping for ... MOM tried to make clear in his closing that if Man2 was tossed then for the same reasons manslaughter should be tossed.


40 posted on 07/13/2013 3:39:24 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Yeah, I’ve been saying manslaughter and 5 years to serve. At least that’s probably what it would have been in VA when I was practicing.


41 posted on 07/13/2013 3:39:40 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: GrootheWanderer

No. They do not because Manslaughter is a lesser charge.


42 posted on 07/13/2013 3:40:05 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: ilovesarah2012
“I was troubled as to why Trayvon did not have any of Zimmerman’s blood on his hands.”

Primarily because they didn't bag his hands to protect the evidence. The entire forensic report on Trayvon was a joke.

43 posted on 07/13/2013 3:40:14 PM PDT by bitterohiogunclinger (Proudly casting a heavy carbon footprint as I clean my guns ---)
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To: szweig

Reversal on appeal seems utterly remote.


44 posted on 07/13/2013 3:40:47 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: Clint N. Suhks

The judge’s instructions to the jury:

“MANSLAUGHTER To prove the crime of Manslaughter, the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt: 1. Trayvon Martin is dead. 2. George Zimmerman intentionally committed an act or acts that caused the death of Trayvon Martin.”

The judge has misstated the law:

Fla. Stat. § 782.07(1) Manslaughter.- The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Fla. Stat. § 776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013

Fla. Stat. § 782.04(2) Murder.— The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Fla. Stat. § 782.03 Excusable homicide.—Homicide is excusable when committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent, or by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or upon a sudden combat, without any dangerous weapon being used and not done in a cruel or unusual manner.

http://www.wsbradio.com/news/news/local/document-instructions-george-zimmerman-jury/nYnm3/

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Index&Title_Request=XLVI#TitleXLVI


45 posted on 07/13/2013 3:41:54 PM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: slumber1
I’ve been saying all along that the wildcard here is the all female jury. I cannot believe the defense allowed this to happen....Emotion is ruling over logic.

This entire case is immersed in il-logic.

The football "Offense" was allowed to play with 8 downs; The Refs rigged all the calls; Zim's Defense "team" were undermined and sabotaged before the Game began; And finally The Game Rules changed randomly and illegally.

What "Fix"??

46 posted on 07/13/2013 3:41:57 PM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

There was a thread in FR yesterday where a lawyer mentioned that the judge had written the instructions for the Manslaughter charge in a confusing way, which did not make clear to the jury that self-defense was also a legitimate defense against Manslaughter. If that is the case, it may be a good sign that the jury is asking for clarification.


47 posted on 07/13/2013 3:44:18 PM PDT by CaptainMorgantown
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To: DManA
You offer 3 choices to people, 90% will pick the middle one

IOW, a hung jury.

48 posted on 07/13/2013 3:44:56 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: Clint N. Suhks
This is my take on what is going to happen.

If not-guilty, massive riots. If 2nd murder, lesser riots. If manslaughter, then massove riots.

If either of the latter two, there is an appeal based upon numerous allegations, biased judge, new charge, etc. If the appeal is granted then more riots.

If remanded back to district court and found not guilty, massive riots. If found 2nd-murder (assuming the manslaughter is not allowed) then lesser riots.

In any case whitey is going pay for this affront on the scantity of the poor Marvins and the blacks in general.

49 posted on 07/13/2013 3:45:10 PM PDT by ProudFossil (" I never did give anyone hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." Harry Truman)
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To: Fawn

Very possible.
I visualize myself on a jury and either it was a good shoot or it wasn’t.
It’s that simple.
If I were the foreman of the jury I would ask each person “are you convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that he was NOT acting in self defense?”
Any answer to the effect of “I’m just not sure ...” means a verdict of NG.
I’m a defense attorney and that is my analysis.
This is not a complex case.
And no way I would even consider convicting for some lane ass lesser charge if it was self defense.
This case is getting flipped on appeal if he gets convicted in my opinion.


50 posted on 07/13/2013 3:45:33 PM PDT by Clump ( the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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