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Urban Sprawl Is Literally Stranding the Poor (Paul Krugman)
Newser ^ | 07/28/2013 | Kevin Spak

Posted on 07/29/2013 11:51:33 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd

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To: Lancey Howard
Krugman would have been right at home in the Soviet Union writing up the next "Five Year Plan".

What do you think this current administration and the entire Democrat Party is all about?


51 posted on 07/29/2013 12:16:22 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Black Agnes

In this novel, there is one world government. People are encouraged to breed like rabbits. Everyone lives their entire lives inside one of these towers. No one is allowed to go outside, in fact, people are agoraphobic. Anyone who is deemed to be a danger is summarily taken out of society by way of a chute at the end of each hallway.

There are people who do live on the farms that are necessary to support the population, but they are few, since it’s mostly automated. They are seen as ‘weird’.

The plot centers around a man who wants to go out side......


52 posted on 07/29/2013 12:16:23 PM PDT by Red Badger (Want to be surprised? Google your own name......Want to have fun? Google your friend's names........)
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To: maggief

I think some of those poor underclass should be given directions to his mansions and told that they are welcome to move in with him to spread the wealth around. It looks like he could accomodate at least a dozen poor families. After all, he didn’t build that wealth himself, he built it on the backs of the poor.

Along with that, build as much section 8 housing as is possible on or around his land. It’s only the right thing to do. There are more than enough current and future Trayvons to go around, he should take in his share.


53 posted on 07/29/2013 12:16:24 PM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I just discussed this article with my 16yo daughter. I explained that this was the second recent article I’d seen on relocating earners from the suburbs back to urban areas. Her response? “But why???” Because the social engineers think that the poor won’t be poor if they make the wager earners live closer to them. Her response? “That doesn’t make sense.” I explained that’s how the liberal mind works to which she replied ‘so they’re stupid?’

Out of the mouths of babes...


54 posted on 07/29/2013 12:16:45 PM PDT by Frapster (Clear the mechanism)
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To: Responsibility2nd

:: the American dream seems to be dying ::

Uhhh...Paul, that would be YOUR interpretation of the American Dream which, apparently, is “social mobility”.

Everyone else believes the American dream is self-determination.


55 posted on 07/29/2013 12:18:38 PM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: massgopguy

I’m guessing wealthy blacks don’t cotton to gang bangers either. Our next door neighbors moved to the country to get their kids away from that influence.


56 posted on 07/29/2013 12:18:50 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Responsibility2nd

Smart Growth = Leaving your tiny, dirty, and violent government-owned apartment to take the bus to your union job at the factory.


57 posted on 07/29/2013 12:19:04 PM PDT by stinkerpot65 (Global warming is a Marxist lie.)
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To: wbill
"Disadvantaged workers often find themselves stranded; there may be jobs available somewhere, but they literally can't get there."

Right - blacks can't get to a job 10 blocks away, but Mexicans can get from Mexico to Michigan to pick fruit for peanuts? Hey Krugman - explain that one away...

Krugman's garbage is half 'push the stupid new liberal idea' about sprawl and half 'it's not the blacks fault they can't get to a job". Both ideas are bogus.

58 posted on 07/29/2013 12:20:15 PM PDT by GOPJ (Sob stories should not be running public policy...)
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To: Responsibility2nd

“Sprawl may be killing Horatio Alger.”


Horatio Alger stories are highly moralistic about what is right and wrong. If you do what is right, don’t lie, cheat or steal etc, you will eventually do well.


59 posted on 07/29/2013 12:24:06 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple
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To: wbill

Turns out not: http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/paul-krugmans-house/


60 posted on 07/29/2013 12:27:14 PM PDT by Thoreauaway
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To: GOPJ

The FEDs have taken away the poor’s ability to think in terms outside the system they are gaming... sad really.


61 posted on 07/29/2013 12:27:24 PM PDT by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: Pontiac
Worth reposting in large font....

 

Social mobility is low in both cities—meaning the poor are staying poor. Why?

Because social welfare programs are keeping the poor anchored to the government teat.

Exactly where the Progressives want them.

The poor have no reason to go where the jobs are they can stay in the neighborhoods where they grew up with their friends and the government will supply everything they need.

And the government also makes sure that there is a grave price to pay for leaving the plantation. If they get a job that does not pay enough to supply all of their needs but pays just a little too much they loose all of the benefits that they are currently getting.

These people are not total idiots. They will stay where they are and keep collecting their welfare checks and keep voting Democrat.


62 posted on 07/29/2013 12:27:38 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

...is Paul Krugman going to move to the hood?


63 posted on 07/29/2013 12:28:03 PM PDT by Tzimisce (The American Revolution began when the British attempted to disarm the Colonists.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
This professional Keynesian quack can always be expected to offer absurd rationalizations for taking away the value of our money, as well as the most basic of our liberties, in order to pursue a rationally indefensible, Leftwing social agenda.

The whole early history of European settlement in North America gives the lie to this ridiculous theory. See America Grounded On Experience & Reason.

Those who will not take up the argument on behalf of our traditional values, on behalf of our way of life; those who seek to appease the Paul Krugmans, as those who give lip service to the claimed grievances of other Leftist spokesmen; are all undermining the future of America in ways that are rapidly becoming irretrievable. There can be no moral justification for such appeasement of evil.

William Flax

64 posted on 07/29/2013 12:28:23 PM PDT by Ohioan
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To: Tzimisce

Nahhh. Kruggie wants the hood to move to YOU.


65 posted on 07/29/2013 12:28:44 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Tzimisce

He’d last about 30 minutes.


66 posted on 07/29/2013 12:29:42 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Responsibility2nd
So, where does Mr. Krugman live?

Paul Krugman's House Photos

67 posted on 07/29/2013 12:30:38 PM PDT by TexasCajun (Creepy-Ass Cracker)
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To: TexasCajun

Thank you.....I was wondering that myself....and I got the answer I was expecting.


68 posted on 07/29/2013 12:31:26 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Responsibility2nd

So lets round up all the people and make them live in government communes just like UN Agenda 21 wants us to.


69 posted on 07/29/2013 12:32:26 PM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: dfwgator; Eva

It’s also happening here in Toronto; inner-city homes are worth a fortune while most of the poor are in the fringes to the northwest & northeast.


70 posted on 07/29/2013 12:33:48 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (I'd give up chocolate but I'm no quitter)
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To: mountainlion

They should ask themselves, does putting a rotten apple in a barrel with good ones make it a good apple, or turn the rest bad.


71 posted on 07/29/2013 12:34:26 PM PDT by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: dfwgator; Eva

It’s also happening here in Toronto; inner-city homes are worth a fortune while most of the poor are in the fringes to the northwest & northeast.


72 posted on 07/29/2013 12:35:12 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (I'd give up chocolate but I'm no quitter)
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To: Billthedrill

“you’ll have to force the wealthy to live in them at gunpoint, but hey, it’s for the Greater Good.”

Just as they must be willing to shoot me dead in order to make me buy their Obamacare policy. They will kill me for my health!


73 posted on 07/29/2013 12:35:13 PM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
It's more like "suburban sprawl."

Another factor regarding Detroit vs. Atlanta "sprawl" is North vs. South.

Much of the urban centers in the northeast date back to the settling of the nation, where roads still follow colonial township boundaries, are narrow and windy, and follow the contours of the Appalachian foothills.

In the south and southwest, the land is more flat, and the settling is newer, so the cities had the advantage of planning their designs and could build anywhere.

-PJ

74 posted on 07/29/2013 12:35:25 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: CSM

They would like nothing more than to use the power of the state to murder their ideological opponents.


75 posted on 07/29/2013 12:36:09 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
And I suppose that transit systems that have to spend 70% or more of their budget on retired union members who sit home on their arses has NOTHING to do with that, eh, Kruggy?

You are correct, and not only that but the free flow of poor people is limited by regulations that prevent low cost bus and taxi services from entering the market. There is no reason that poor people with jobs in suburbia couldn't ride in a van owned by another person looking to earn some money. In fact it could be a pretty good business. If you watch carefully in certain areas you will notice, for example, vans carrying Asian workers from the city to the Asian restaurants in the suburbs.

Forty years ago in Philadelphia old re-purposed school buses came to pick up inner city residents who wanted to work on the farms in New Jersey. I'll bet regulations today would make that kind of transport impractical or even illegal.

Krugman and his liberal allies do everything they can to stomp out businesses like that which actually help low income people improve their circumstances. And then they complain about the results of their efforts.

76 posted on 07/29/2013 12:36:30 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: Pontiac

“Because social welfare programs are keeping the poor anchored to the government teat.”

It all comes down to bad choices. Girls of 13 are having out of wedlock babies with older teens and young adults. These young girls are not mature enough to raise the child. The burden of childrearing almost certainly means they will not get an education providing them even the rudimentary reading, writing, and math skills required for low skill work.

Many young boys and girls who choose not to fall into the pregnancy trap fall into the racial trap and buy into the hip hop urban culture theme that excelling in school is “white”. As a result they fail to apply themselves in school and end up without the rudimentary skills required to prosper in the workplace.

Without even rudimentary skills, the potential of obtaining more than an extremely low paying low skill job is zero. Dependence on government then becomes either a conscious choice or the default choice. Without skills there is no social mobility.


77 posted on 07/29/2013 12:39:35 PM PDT by Soul of the South (Yesterday is gone. Today will be what we make of it.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Thanks for the compliment.

But I should have said it this way.

These people are not total idiots. They will stay where they are and keep collecting their welfare checks, keep breeding more of their kind (because children tend to learn their work ethic from their parents) and keep voting Democrat.

78 posted on 07/29/2013 12:39:52 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: CSM
They will kill me for my health!

Ah, but you'll be a better man for it! A few years into 0bamacare and it will be "Good morning, Mr. Drill, this is the surgeon who will be performing your quadruple bypass surgery. Say to Doctor Abdul "Scissorhands" Mengele. He did his residency online."

79 posted on 07/29/2013 12:40:07 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: GraceG
Contemporary Black Culture was killed by LBJ....

It actually started long before; certainly the corruption was in high gear with FDR.

1. The Welfare system began to undermine moral values & self-respect with the ADC program in the 1930s.

2. With the increasing agitation for Federal solutions to all social problems, as the years rolled forward, personal responsibility continued to decline, as did the concomitant sense of constructive pride in one's own culture, values & family.

Ultimately it is the ridiculous notion that people are all interchangeable; that no group can function properly but as part of a "diverse" collective underpins the enervating poison with which the Left has injected communities of every type, across the length & breadth of our Federal Union.

Rich & Poor, Black & White, all have been adversely affected--all. Only scoundrels & demagogues benefit from the compulsion driven efforts to force all of us into a dependent mold! (See Compassion Or Compulsion?)

William Flax

80 posted on 07/29/2013 12:41:47 PM PDT by Ohioan
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To: freeandfreezing

Around here, there are vans that pick people up in the evening to take them worm-picking at the farms to the north, then return them to the city in the morning.


81 posted on 07/29/2013 12:45:04 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (I'd give up chocolate but I'm no quitter)
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To: Responsibility2nd
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/architecture/2005/11/suburban_despair.single.html Interesting article on the reality of urban sprawl throughout history. Shocked to find it where it was but not surprised to see that they're still focused on fixing 'the problem'.
82 posted on 07/29/2013 12:45:47 PM PDT by Frapster (Clear the mechanism)
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To: Responsibility2nd

No doubt Krugman will be happy to be Obama’s Location Czar, telling everyone where to live. Meanwhile, he lives in a posh apartment guarded by guys with guns.

Some animals are more equal than others.


83 posted on 07/29/2013 12:46:29 PM PDT by txrefugee
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To: Responsibility2nd

Just why the heck do these LIB morons think I moved to relatively remote Utah??????? To be close to them????? I am far away from feral urban losers as I could get. My hope is that they are too weak and lazy to cross hundreds of miles of desert to face resistance from my neighbors and I. Cry me a river for their being “stranded”. Good.


84 posted on 07/29/2013 12:50:34 PM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: Soul of the South
It all comes down to bad choices.

I don’t disagree, but where does a preteen learn HOW to make intelligent choices?

From their parents ,siblings and peers. Unfortunately their parents siblings and peers don’t know how to make intelligent choices. If they did they wouldn’t be where they are.

The children of parents on welfare generally are living amongst other children of welfare parents.

Nearly all of their childhood experiences are going to be centered in a culture of dependency (of all kinds).

They have little chance of learning good life skills because their role models do not have good life skills.

Their only chance is a government program such as was forced on Clinton that put a time limit on government aid. A forced weaning off of welfare is the only likely exit for the welfare dependant.

85 posted on 07/29/2013 12:52:56 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Mears

bfl


86 posted on 07/29/2013 12:59:10 PM PDT by Mears
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To: Sherman Logan

Detoilet is 140 sq miles!

I doubt Atlanta even comes close to that.


87 posted on 07/29/2013 12:59:24 PM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Disadvantaged workers often find themselves stranded; there may be jobs available somewhere, but they literally can't get there.

What about buses. That's how our maids got to our house from the poor part of town when I was growing up.

88 posted on 07/29/2013 1:03:33 PM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: Sgt_Schultze

One of the commenters on that article brought up (basically) the “nature or nurture” question.

Be interesting to see if there’s any grant money to be had studying it (I’m going to bet not, unless of course you already had the PC answer in the ready).


89 posted on 07/29/2013 1:06:25 PM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
The thing about cities is that they’re more economically efficient at the macro level. Sprawl adds transportation and distribution costs, infrastructure costs, etc. Plus the cost of converting land into residential uses, probably forever preempting it’s use for any other economic activity.

If cities are more economically efficient why does it cost so much more to live there? If the subways charged what they really cost they would be far more expensive than automobiles. Cities are fine for housing the welfare class, the promiscuous, the illegal drug seekers, and they do well as work hubs, except companies are fleeing them because of high costs, taxes, and regulation. The city work hub is being replaced by the internet hub that enables workers to be widely dispersed. NYC's population would be declining if not for the imports from third world countries. The people that can afford to move out are voting with their feet.

90 posted on 07/29/2013 1:14:20 PM PDT by Reeses
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To: hal ogen

We are in a food desert. 8 miles to the nearest town. There is a taxi service. 8 mile round trip is $35. There is also a relatively affordable (not sure of the price) bus from the town to the nearest city of 50k.

There is a prison in the nearest town. Because of that, we have a black family population that is mobile. The turnover is fairly rapid, from what I can tell. I’ll see certain black people, some working, some kids, some elders for awhile and then, they disappear. I am pretty sure they follow the inmate.

We have legal Hispanic farm workers. The farmers jump through myriad governmental hoops and must provide housing. Most of them have simply purchased homes in a particular village that is a Little Mexico sort of place. These houses are inspected and the farmer owners keep them up.

The truth is, this sort of rural area is boring for anyone used to urban life. There is very little to do. Almost all social life is family-oriented, includes gatherings at friends’ homes and church functions. There are 2 large employers, one a factory, one a dairy co-operative. Unemployment is very low. We do have poor people and Section 8 housing, but it is clean and functional.

The real squalor is in the rural lowlands nearest the Mississippi, collectively known as The Coulees. Usually a rundown trailer house with broken lawn chairs in the yard and several beaters up on blocks, or not, that likely don’t run. These places are off the main road and aren’t readily visible. You have to hunt for them. But you do need some sort of vehicle to live like that.


91 posted on 07/29/2013 1:16:15 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: Responsibility2nd

Urban sprawl only works with a strong economy and cheap gasoline.


92 posted on 07/29/2013 1:17:03 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Tagline: (optional, printed after your name on post):)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Wow! One of my favorite articles is suddenly relevant!

It’s on the history of the New York Subway system, which was conceived by New York’s elite to create exactly the problem that Krugman now wants to solve.

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/The_New_York_Rapid_Transit_Decision_of_1900_(Katz)

Quick excerpt:

“The increase in New York’s population, particularly in the period 1860-1900, was largely due to immigration from the poorest, most backward, rural areas of Southern, Central, and Eastern Europe.6 The new immigrants customarily settled and tried to remain in the densely populated and overcrowded areas of the lower East Side of Manhattan ...

In the view of the patrician elite who led the fight for the subway, the squalid conditions of life in these ghetto slums spawned poverty, crime, and disease...

... the patricians envisioned but one solution for both the political problem of bossism and the social problem of immigrant slums. Rapid transit — mechanized high speed trains running on tracks separate from the street, providing cheap, quick transportation from the Battery to lower Westchester — would alone foster the dispersion of the immigrant population to the relatively undeveloped northern part of the city.”

The prologue is well worth reading for folks interested in social history. There’s also a fsacinating political angle tot he story.


93 posted on 07/29/2013 1:17:16 PM PDT by edwinland
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To: Responsibility2nd

“Sprawl may be killing Horatio Alger.”

Right. Not the criminal culture, entitlement mentality, government incentives to stay single and pump out babies, black racism, or incompetent liberal political leadership. It’s the fault of people who refuse to live in that environment.


94 posted on 07/29/2013 1:17:25 PM PDT by Hugin (')
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To: Responsibility2nd

Under UN Agenda 21 plans, all the peasants (and if you are reading this, you’re one) are collected into giant metro areas when they can be totally controlled. Electric, water, food, etc. can so easily be controlled. Need to get rid of 5.5 billion unneeded peasants, just a flip of a switch away.

By the way, I enjoy Paul Krugman when he comments on Zerohedge ... he’s so damn funny and his comments always elicit howls of laughter. However, I hope he hangs in there as whatever he recommends the rational human can choose to do the opposite with a high probability of success.


95 posted on 07/29/2013 1:18:18 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (The only growth industries left under Progressives are government and poverty.)
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To: Beagle8U

Atlanta is 132 square miles in area.

Both are pretty meaningless, since the metro area is what determines jobs, not municipality boundaries.


96 posted on 07/29/2013 1:18:58 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Responsibility2nd

Too bad we didn’t pick our own effin cotton.


97 posted on 07/29/2013 1:50:38 PM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (The Second Amendment is NOT about the right to hunt. It IS a right to shoot tyrants.)
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To: Eva

“Retake the cities, if you can stand it.”

That’s exactly what Commissar Bloomberg is doing (effectively).


98 posted on 07/29/2013 1:53:13 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Reeses
If cities are more economically efficient why does it cost so much more to live there? If the subways charged what they really cost they would be far more expensive than automobiles.

Cities cost more because mostly because of large government unions. Also because of the many social services that are little to nonexistent in the suburbs. Subways aren't nearly as cheap as they use to be as the city governments are being squeezed by pension costs. This has resulted in public transportation to pickup more of their own tab. I do remember years ago when I bought my first car at age 28. I had more freedom but my spending power went down significantly.
99 posted on 07/29/2013 1:53:23 PM PDT by outpostinmass2
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To: Pontiac

I agree parents, siblings, and peers don’t do the proper job. It is unfortunate community organizations that teach morals, leadership and achievement could make a difference (Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Junior Achievement, YMCA, JROTC) are not embraced by the community for cultural reasons. It is also unfortunate “community organizers”, funded by progressive organizations, are focused on agitation and not building up people. Finally, the churches in the community are failing to assist teen parents in developing necessary life skills and childrearing skills.

Essentially we have a breakdown into a culture of anarchy and dependency that is self perpetuating and enabled by welfare. In addition to your suggestion of putting a time limit on government aid, we also need government projects involving hard work that teach these people the job skills needed to survive and prosper in the workplace. Perhaps we should bring back the CCCC and put the welfare dependent to work improving the infrastructure in public places. Work or starve. Add in some military discipline and it may be possible to turn some welfare dependents into productive citizens.


100 posted on 07/29/2013 2:12:55 PM PDT by Soul of the South (Yesterday is gone. Today will be what we make of it.)
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