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Edward Snowden is a patriot
Politico ^

Posted on 08/11/2013 6:30:03 PM PDT by chessplayer

Does President Barack Obama think we’re stupid?

That’s the only conclusion possible after watching Friday’s bravura performance in which the president announced a set of proposals meant to bring more transparency to the National Security Agency — and claimed he would have done it anyway, even if Edward Snowden had never decided to leak thousands of highly sensitive documents to The Guardian’s Glenn Greenwald.

But even as he grudgingly admitted that the timing, at least, of his suggestions was a consequence of Snowden’s actions, the president declared, “I don’t think Mr. Snowden was a patriot.” When you look at what has changed over the past two months, though, it’s hard not to wonder, “What could be more patriotic than what Snowden did?”

First, the results: More than a dozen bills have already been introduced to put a stop to the NSA’s mass phone record collection program and to overhaul the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which has reinterpreted the Fourth Amendment in secret, creating a body of privacy law that the public has never read. A half-dozen new privacy lawsuits have been filed against the NSA. The Pentagon is undergoing an unprecedented secrecy audit. U.S. officials have been caught deceiving or lying to Congress. The list goes on.

(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; News/Current Events; Russia
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51 posted on 08/11/2013 8:06:12 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: blaquebyrd

Sure wish you could make an appealing argument to me.


52 posted on 08/11/2013 8:09:22 PM PDT by txhurl ('The DOG ate my homework. That homework, too. ALL my homework. OK?' - POSHITUS)
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To: chessplayer

Amy of Amy’s Bakery Company makes more sense in her guest appearance this evening than these saber waving would-be Snowden executioners, I tell ya!


53 posted on 08/11/2013 8:11:46 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: blaquebyrd

Many conservatives are sadly all screwed up too!


54 posted on 08/11/2013 8:12:49 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: blaquebyrd
How did NSA’s downloading hundreds of millions Americans’ emails, texts. etc., prevent Boston, Fort Hood, Benghazi? The NSA is downloading and storing information on American Citizens without probable cause without warrant. It is then passing this information to other government agencies. That is not what you and your fellow Soldiers fought for.
55 posted on 08/11/2013 8:13:13 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama "hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed them like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: gaijin

Thomas Drake and William Binney didn’t leave the country. They’re still alive and not in jail.


56 posted on 08/11/2013 8:14:18 PM PDT by Henry Hnyellar
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To: txhurl
Sure wish you'd join your commie boot lickin hero in Russia.
57 posted on 08/11/2013 8:19:20 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: chessplayer

Snowden is a patriot!! He unmasked the NSA like no one else has
Only downside is that Obama intentionally forced him to seek asylum in Russia where Putin will get every single NSA intel he has. I predict NSA will be wailing for more billions in “black” funding from Congress to fix this Russia situation with Russia now knowing (virtually) everything and being able to piece together the rest.
How stupid greedy and lax was the NSA to allow Snowden to download (acquire) this treasure trove? The NSA relationship with its contractors is totally corrupt and involves bribes kickbacks and revolving door employment

Obama is the traitor not Ed Snowden


58 posted on 08/11/2013 8:23:43 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Chgogal

I wish we could stop every attack, I really do. But nothing is 100. As I stated earlier I retired in ‘02 at Hurlburt Field FL and I can assure you no one I served with would consider an American who hand delivered our nation’s secrets to a Russian president a hero. Hell before tonight I’d have said the same for FReepers.


59 posted on 08/11/2013 8:29:54 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: fabian
How are people of any philosophic stripe “screwed up” for opposing a government who downloads without probable cause and warrant private citizens' communications? I have no problem with the NSA collecting data on foreigners abroad and then getting warrants on each and every communication with that foreigner. I have no problem with communication companies storing the data and when given a proper warrant from the government, the company giving that private citizens's communications to the government.

I will never agree that the US government has the right to confiscate all private communications of US citizen and then store it for as long as it deems necessary. It will be abused just as Obama's IRS is abusing its responsibilities.

60 posted on 08/11/2013 8:32:47 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama "hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed them like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: Chgogal

We live in an age of terrorism, with mass murder being able to be stopped by listening into cell phone data...then that makes sense. How is that hurting any law abiding citizen? If we have a city go up in an nuclear explosion, don’t worry, we are all going to lose far far more rights! The very fact that Snowden went to our enemies speaks volumes, does it not?


61 posted on 08/11/2013 8:39:37 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: dennisw
And now the NSA is firing 1000 contractors....WTF????

http://boingboing.net/2013/08/09/nsa-firing-90-of-its-sysadmin.html

62 posted on 08/11/2013 8:41:02 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama "hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed them like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: chessplayer

The arithmetic is simple: if Snowden is a traitor, then Obama, under whom NSA operates, is a hero who represents this nation’s best interests.

You cannot avoid this conclusion cake owners, and, simultaneously, eaters.


63 posted on 08/11/2013 8:44:18 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: fabian
How is it hurting law abiding citizens? I just now explained it to you in great detail.

The NSA has been listening and downloading this information WITHOUT warrants now for three to four years. How did that prevent Boston? We even were warned by Russian and the NSA still missed it? How did it prevent Benghazi? The Ambassador on the ground warned the administration about the dangers and still the NSA missed the clues. (But some poor schmuck is in jail for making some sort of video that had nothing to do with the attack.)

This illegal/contra-constituional activity is rife for abuse. And it is already beginning.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/05/the-nsa-is-giving-your-phone-records-to-the-dea-and-the-dea-is-covering-it-up/

64 posted on 08/11/2013 8:48:14 PM PDT by Chgogal (Obama "hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed them like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: blaquebyrd

Sure wish you weren’t brainwashed.


65 posted on 08/11/2013 8:51:49 PM PDT by txhurl ('The DOG ate my homework. That homework, too. ALL my homework. OK?' - POSHITUS)
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To: frickin_frackin

Who, in your opinion, is more of the Patrick Henry type — Bambi or Snowden?


66 posted on 08/11/2013 8:58:22 PM PDT by 353FMG ( I do not say whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: Chgogal

Don’t you get it??? NSA never really needed these sys-admin people in the first place. These people are employed by large NSA contractors and the NSA blows billions each year on un-needed contractor services like this and such as building new NSA buildings and installing new super computers and data storage.

The NSA is a typical Federal money pit. Most of the reason they now find it necessary to spy on all Americans is a money thing. Contractors have made billions off this un-Constitutional NSA expansion into Utah data storage of all Americans electronic communications and also ongoing expansion at the NSA Fort Meade Maryland location


67 posted on 08/11/2013 8:59:19 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: dennisw

San Antonio, too.


68 posted on 08/11/2013 9:04:53 PM PDT by txhurl ('The DOG ate my homework. That homework, too. ALL my homework. OK?' - POSHITUS)
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To: Chgogal
"The NSA has been listening and downloading this information WITHOUT warrants now for three to four years. How did that prevent Boston?"

The NSA has been listening since 911. It's a foolishly childish argument to suggest we can prevent every attack. Do cops cops catch every one who speeds every day? What Snowden did was provide Americas enemies with our detailed ways & means of attacking them.

69 posted on 08/11/2013 9:07:34 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: txhurl

Sure wish you loved America as much as you love your commie kissing traitorous hero Snowden. Maybe I’m wrong, are you American?


70 posted on 08/11/2013 9:13:11 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: chessplayer

Snowden surrendered his fortune, his country, his life, because he feared for the future of America. PERIOD. That makes him a hero. PERIOD.


71 posted on 08/11/2013 9:15:33 PM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can STILL go straight to hell)
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To: blaquebyrd

You really have no clue. The threat to your freedom is not coming from Moscow, it’s coming from Washington. Grow a brain.


72 posted on 08/11/2013 9:16:38 PM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can STILL go straight to hell)
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To: HMS Surprise

Yeah Putin has your back. You sir are a special kind of fool. Putin loves ball-less men like you and your traitorous hero Snowden. He’ll parade gutless cowards like you two as examples of American “manhood”. You, Snowden and everything you represent are national embarrassments. Why don’t you cut & run to a commie country like your hero?


73 posted on 08/11/2013 9:24:37 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: blaquebyrd; All

at the end of the day, does anyone think that Obama is unhappy with America ‘s priceless secrets, bought with billions of taxpayers dollars, in the hands of Chinese and Russian communists?


74 posted on 08/11/2013 9:27:31 PM PDT by bt_dooftlook (Democrats - the party of Amnesty, Abortion, and Adolescence)
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To: depressed in 06

I’ve got a newsflash for you:

They’re recording phone calls, emails, the works. It goes into a huge data vacuum cleaner and stored on petabytes of disk storage.

Then, when they want to examine what you’ve said, they not only put out a query for what you’re GOING to say, but what you’ve ALREADY said.


75 posted on 08/11/2013 9:31:48 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: bt_dooftlook

Hell half the FReepers on this thread think Snowden is a hero.


76 posted on 08/11/2013 9:32:52 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: blaquebyrd

I don’t know if it is or isn’t.

What I now do know, with certainty, is that the civil liberties of innocent Americans are being shredded without any due process whatsoever, on a routine basis, with data sharing among agencies, and it is being done in the name of “national security,” while delivering no actual security. If it did, the Boston marathon bombers would not have been a surprise.

Oh, wait, the Russians told us about those clowns. And we didn’t listen.

As for how much the Russians “know” - I’ve got to believe that with or without Snowden, they already knew quite a lot. Thanks to our lax immigration policies and US industries no longer enforcing background checks on employees for sensitive materials and projects, the Russians know most anything they want to know. The PRC also knows most anything they want to know - for the same reasons.

Hell, we’ve had Chinese nationals removed for spying from Los Almos, where they have access to nuclear secrets. The Chinese have absconded with sensitive and proprietary information from the commercial sector that is essential to the defense of the nation. And the “free trade” idiots, many of whom claim to be “conservatives,” see this as a perfectly fine outcome.

So in the big picture of things, I seriously doubt that Snowden, even if he has turned over whatever he has to the Russians, it isn’t all that damaging to the US from the Russians’ perspective. All the Russians can do now is laugh as they realize that the US has its very own version of the east German Stasi, who spied on everything and everyone, all day, every day.


77 posted on 08/11/2013 9:39:42 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: bt_dooftlook

Which “priceless secrets?” Please enumerate them for me.


78 posted on 08/11/2013 9:40:17 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: txhurl

“San Antonio, too.”

NSA having large facilities there is logical. Lots of military live there and a few bases are there. NSA is a Federale jobs program so why not San Antonio too!!! Retired military can get NSA jobs too...hop on the Federales grave train


79 posted on 08/11/2013 9:44:24 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: NVDave

Agree on everything and free trade too!
Think of NSA as just another Fderal jobs program. It could do a much better job if scaled back to 10% of what it is and spent 10% the money it does. This means no spying on every American and resident then storing this data. (except illegal aliens who mostly live off grid, pay cash, earn in cash etc)


80 posted on 08/11/2013 9:49:44 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: blaquebyrd

Sure wish you loved America as much as you love Obama.


81 posted on 08/11/2013 9:50:20 PM PDT by txhurl ('The DOG ate my homework. That homework, too. ALL my homework. OK?' - POSHITUS)
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To: bt_dooftlook

“at the end of the day, does anyone think that Obama is unhappy with America ‘s priceless secrets, bought with billions of taxpayers dollars, in the hands of Chinese and Russian communists?”

Precisely why Obama made it impossible for Snowden to get asylum in Iceland or any nation except Putin’s Russia


82 posted on 08/11/2013 9:51:56 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: fabian

Please tell us which terrorist attacks have been stopped as a result of these programs. I’m looking at this list:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/04/fifty-terror-plots-foiled-since-9-11-the-homegrown-threat-and-the-long-war-on-terrorism

And seeing not much coincidence with electronic intel gathering. I’m seeing lots of low-rent morons being caught by their own bungling or probably a cell being infiltrated with moles.

If you want to prevent a US city from going up in a mushroom cloud, then you need to do something about our borders. Listening in to people won’t do jack. Stopping the materials or people at the borders will. As it stands right now, someone with good operational security and a penchant for using hawala money networks and couriers for messaging could plot to ship a nuke into the US and simply drive it in from Mexico unmolested.

One of the most pernicious lies about this electronic intrusion is that it will make us safer. It won’t. Why? Because our intel agencies have grow fat and lazy. They’re addicted to being able to call up data with a “warrant” and a few keystrokes. The people who would like to do harm to the US know this, and will simply go back to 1800’s levels of communication, which won’t be so easily intercepted. Sure, it might be slower, but they won’t be intercepted. The terrs already knew that using a cell phone was a liability. They’ve known that since 2003.

The simple fact is, I have rights recognized by the Constitution, and I’m not going to waive those, regardless of the “national interest.”


83 posted on 08/11/2013 9:53:19 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: NVDave
"So in the big picture of things, I seriously doubt that Snowden, even if he has turned over whatever he has to the Russians, it isn’t all that damaging to the US from the Russians’ perspective

Whew, I feel much better now knowing Snowden gave up his citizenship, family and fortune (as one of your fellow cowardice traitors stated) for basically nothing. Really? You can't be that stupid. I'm thinking you guys are Russian, you gotta be. Right?

84 posted on 08/11/2013 9:55:35 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: txhurl

Seriously that’s all you got? Go to Hulu or Netflix men are debating here son.


85 posted on 08/11/2013 10:01:25 PM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: blaquebyrd

How come Obama prevented (blocked via pressure) Snowden from obtaining asylum everywhere else? So in the end Russia was the only place to go?

Think! This requires some brain cells.


86 posted on 08/11/2013 10:04:15 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: blaquebyrd

No, I just know how inept our national security system has been in the last, oh, 20 years. Once the Cold War was over (during which, I held a security clearance and we took Russian/Soviet spying quite seriously), it seemed that Washington DC quit thinking strategically and allowed critical industries to start hiring foreign nationals.

Once that happened, the cat was out of the bag forever. For example, cisco off-shored their software bug-fixing, which involved giving the Indians (dot, not feather) access to the IOS source code. Within only a few months, we had positive, verified evidence that the Communist Chinese had the IOS source code and were reverse-engineering it. We also heard from hackers who tipped us off to the Chinese source code theft that the Russians had IOS as well, and were using it to load their version of our code into routers here and there, which sent data back to Russian servers as they wished.

Microsoft’s source code has been stolen by the Russians. Oracle’s code as well.

During the 80’s, even selling a computer to the Russians was a Big Friggin’ Deal, and punishable by felony judgements. Today? Pfah. Sell the Russians as much iron as they want to buy. Same for the Chinese. Thanks to the outpouring of our national engineering treasure to the Chinese, they’re stealing our economy out from underneath us as we wonder why our economy won’t create jobs any longer.

I remember the Cold War and worked in the defense sector. I remember what real security was like. We turned our back on real security the day we started down the road to “free trade.”


87 posted on 08/11/2013 10:21:44 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: frickin_frackin
Then he took those secrets and ran to any communist country that would have him. China, Russia, hell, he was shopping around for Cuba and Venezuela too.
Somehow he doesn’t seem the Patrick Henry type.

Welcome to Free Republic, where you just might be able to get a clue.

The current US government is more communist and totalitarian than the current government of Russia. China still needs more market reforms. But both of these are moving away from communism; while the USA is rapidly going into the darkness.

88 posted on 08/11/2013 10:23:55 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: chessplayer

Assuming the NSA has been storing and analyzing vast amounts of communication data, then someone high-up must know who Obama really is and to whom he gets his financial resources and directions? Maybe the same folks are controlling the NSA higher ups?


89 posted on 08/11/2013 10:32:24 PM PDT by Swirl
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To: dennisw

Yea, that was another brilliant move by Obama. He could have, through diplomatic channels, maneuvered Snowden into a country where the US had some semblance of co-operation and better relations. Instead, Obama played chess like a checkers player, and the Russians won what was a chess match.

The Russians play a long game. Obama is used to western Europe and the US press bowing and kissing his feet. When the Russians and Putin didn’t give Obama the adoration to which he is accustomed, Obama didn’t know what to do. His refusal to meet with Putin recently looked like a petulant child refusing to do a chore. The Russians responded in a pitch-perfect way on the world stage, making the US (thanks to our current man-child POTUS) look like a child throwing a tantrum.

Even if Snowden gives the Russians nothing, I’m sure Putin is relishing causing Obama to gnash his teeth. The Russians are like that. They like to remind the US that they’re still a force to be reckoned with in little ways that embarrass and annoy.

This, BTW, was Reagan’s big win in this game: Reagan would say things that would wind up the Russians instead of the other way ‘round. The “I’ve outlawed the Soviet Union and we begin bombing in five minutes” quip during a mic check was classic. The Russians went ape, and Reagan smiled and said “Heh. Just joking.” And Reagan did it again and again and again in his public speaking. He never missed a chance to use humor to yank Ivan’s chain.

Today, no one wants to wind up the Russians, and because we’ve been afflicted with four administrations filled with Ivy League dipsticks who take the Russians Oh So Seriously, we’ve returned to the days of detente’ in the 70’s, where the Russians knew they could jerk our chain, and they did so nearly non-stop.


90 posted on 08/11/2013 10:32:32 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: 353FMG

Does it have to be one or the other? Why can’t Obummer and Snowden both be traitors?


91 posted on 08/11/2013 10:33:35 PM PDT by frickin_frackin
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To: NVDave

+1


92 posted on 08/11/2013 10:45:13 PM PDT by Pelham (Deportation is the law. When it's not enforced you get California)
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To: Donnafrflorida

I think the word is expatriate.


93 posted on 08/11/2013 11:09:09 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: chessplayer

Ambivalent here

Disturbed by what he knew

Mixed on his motives


94 posted on 08/11/2013 11:10:48 PM PDT by wardaddy (the next Dark Ages are coming as Western Civilization crumbles with nary a whimper)
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To: frickin_frackin

Well since you are pretty much a newbie I pretty much don’t give a frick or a frack about what you think.


95 posted on 08/11/2013 11:19:11 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Lord, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life.)
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To: gaijin

Great post!


96 posted on 08/11/2013 11:20:23 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Lord, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life.)
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To: depressed in 06

LOL... “Oh Nicky Nicky Nick... you are such a tool” of the NWO.


97 posted on 08/11/2013 11:21:42 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Lord, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life.)
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To: blaquebyrd
Sure wish you loved America as much as you love your commie kissing traitorous hero Snowden. Maybe I’m wrong, are you American?

The real irony is that the inward-looking surveillance state is being built to be used on people like you. The elites and the left aren't afraid of terrorism from Yemen, they're afraid of people who love the original concept of America. People who served the ideals of the Constitution proudly. People who take it all seriously.

When push comes to shove, people in uniform will come looking for anyone who speaks out or stands with the Constitution, and those uniforms will have clean flags with red and white stripes and 50 stars. They'll think you're a traitor for not getting with the program of social justice and redistribution. Your pride for 'the old system' and your prior service will be viewed with suspicion. You'll be the enemy that the new "patriots" train to resist.

They'll probably even tell you to love the new America or leave it.

Snowden may or may not be a traitor, but that word is about to become very, very subjective.

98 posted on 08/11/2013 11:24:57 PM PDT by Steel Wolf ("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)
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To: varyouga

Bump!


99 posted on 08/11/2013 11:25:27 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Lord, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life.)
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To: txhurl

Yes they are. Since they like to target people and keep lists, perhaps we should do the same.


100 posted on 08/11/2013 11:29:02 PM PDT by antceecee (Bless us Lord, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life.)
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