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Ted Cruz Releases Birth Certificate Was Born to American Mother in Canada
Gateway Pundit ^ | 8-19-2013 | Jim Hoft

Posted on 08/19/2013 8:49:38 PM PDT by servo1969

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1 posted on 08/19/2013 8:49:38 PM PDT by servo1969
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To: servo1969

If his father was an American citizen, at the time of his birth, I understand he is eligible.

Both parents don’t have to be born Americans for somebody to be eligible, just citizens.


2 posted on 08/19/2013 8:51:02 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: servo1969
"harkening back to the debunked conspiracy theories surrounding President Barack Obama’s citizenship."

Debunked - my ass.
3 posted on 08/19/2013 8:52:01 PM PDT by servo1969
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To: servo1969

I just don’t understand why immigrants or first generation children of immigrants have more drive to become president than the lazy spawn of our great nation. What goes wrong????


4 posted on 08/19/2013 8:58:44 PM PDT by FreeAtlanta (sue the DNC for the IRS abuse! Can RICO laws be used against the DNC?)
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To: servo1969
harkening back to the debunked conspiracy theories surrounding President Barack Obama’s citizenship. <<

DEBUNKED????????....Read no further!...lol....My dog has better documentation!..and I aint kiddin!

5 posted on 08/19/2013 9:01:43 PM PDT by M-cubed
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To: servo1969

I say, if Cruz’s dad wasn’t a naturalized American citizen at the time of Ted’s birth, he shouldn’t be eligible to run for the President of the United States. They should’ve kicked out the current Resident in the White House for that alone.


6 posted on 08/19/2013 9:03:12 PM PDT by Southern Magnolia
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To: servo1969

He’s naturalized.


7 posted on 08/19/2013 9:03:55 PM PDT by Ray76 (Common sense immigration reform: Enforce Existing Law)
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To: servo1969

I will venture a prediction that IF Cruz does decide to run for President the Dems will be all over this and claim he is not a NBC and therefore is ineligible. When asked about Obama they will say Obama was born in the USA and Cruz wasn’t. When asked about a forged BC they will claim they will laugh it off.


8 posted on 08/19/2013 9:04:29 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: Jonty30

Cruz’s father at the time of his birth was a Cuban citizen employed and residing in Canada. His father had some kind of a history with Castro at the time but evidently went against Castro in later years.


9 posted on 08/19/2013 9:06:11 PM PDT by noinfringers2
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To: noinfringers2

The fact that Cruz’s father was residing in Canada at the time of his birth doesn’t mean that he wasn’t an American at the time.

Lots of American’s nationals reside in Canada.


10 posted on 08/19/2013 9:07:40 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: servo1969

Food for thought-

Comments from the article:


JEFF-

POTUS is held to a higher standard — NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. The Constitution did not define NBC, but a unanimous Supreme Court decision, Minor v. Happersett, did. To be an NBC, you must be born on U.S. soil or U.S. occupied territory (military bases, embassies, and other U.S. controlled territory) to (and here is the biggie!) UNITED STATES CITIZENS. Not citizen — singular, citizens — plural.

Barry Soetoro (legal name, never changed) is not only NOT an NBC (unless his real biological father is not Barack Obama Sr. — such as Frank Marshall Davis) but Little Barry the Illegitimate Usurper is not even a citizen of the USSA (as it is now after the “fundamental transformation” by the radical revolutionaries which began after the 2008 election).

BTW, Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal, are not eligible to be POTUS either.

We are screwed.....

This is not going to end well.

“And you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free.” John 8:32


ELDER+JOHN-

Jeff, have you read the Minor descision or are you going off of the interpretations of others? Virginia Minor’s parents were both US citizens at the time of her birth in the Commonwealth of Virginia in 1824. Because her citizenship was established by parentage and land the Supreme Court specifically declined to explore other possible lines of thought on what constitutes a natural born citizen. Indeed, of the eight possible itterations of parentage and soil the court did not even mention six of them - including Mr. Cruz’s situation. The closest they came to mentioning those other cases was when they brought up - with no objection on their part- earlier federal laws declaring certain people to be natural born (or born) based on parentage but not soil. Them declining to explore these paths makes perfect sense since the Minor descision was not about citizenship per se, but rather was about voting. Minor contended that she should be allowed to vote in Missouri because she was a citizen of the state of Missouri and of these United States. Once her citizenship was established there was no need to further explore the issue in regards to the case at hand. What the Minor descision does establish - in case of fact rather than case of law - is that the court has not made any descisions on cases like Obama or Cruz because if they had, the birther movement would be using them rather than the immaterial Minor decision.


11 posted on 08/19/2013 9:10:16 PM PDT by servo1969
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To: plain talk

I believe this could be a delayed action just like I believe the Senate OK given to McCain was a political time bomb.


12 posted on 08/19/2013 9:11:47 PM PDT by noinfringers2
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To: servo1969

How many layers in this document LOL!!!


13 posted on 08/19/2013 9:12:00 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:32 "The arrogant one will stumble and fall With no one to raise him up; And I will set)
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To: Southern Magnolia

Since the Naturalized Citizen requirement has been skipped, disobeyed, and ignored, I say let Cruz run for President. It’s not like anyone in Washington is going to force Obama to obey the law, so why make a good man like Cruz obey it. America is doomed anyway. Might as well try to get one good guy in there before it’s final crash.


14 posted on 08/19/2013 9:13:42 PM PDT by ScubieNuc (When there is no justice in the laws, justice is left to the outlaws.)
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To: servo1969

We dont need to worry about running Ted Cruz at this juncture.

Id steer clear if it was me, he has a role but not Chief Executive.

Strengthen the things that remain.


15 posted on 08/19/2013 9:15:22 PM PDT by One Name (Ultimately, the TRUTH is a razor's edge and no man can sit astride it.)
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To: Jonty30

Cruz’s father at the time the son was born was a Cuban citizen with business ties there and with some ties to Castro which he later broke off. I understand the Cruz’s lived in Canada about 4 years so it is questionable as to any temporary Canadian status.


16 posted on 08/19/2013 9:20:48 PM PDT by noinfringers2
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To: One Name

30 plus years as Senator for Cruz is pretty good.


17 posted on 08/19/2013 9:25:52 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

it will all play out. He is a dynamo, rightly driving the discussion in the correct direction.

many more of us need to stand up, knowing we will be shot at and shot down.


18 posted on 08/19/2013 9:38:37 PM PDT by One Name (Ultimately, the TRUTH is a razor's edge and no man can sit astride it.)
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To: Jonty30

Please keep up with the rest of the class. Father was a citizen of CUBA at the time of Cruz’s birth, and did not become US citizen till many years later.


19 posted on 08/19/2013 9:41:20 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Southern Magnolia

Fatheer was a citizen of CUBA at time of Cruz’s birth.


20 posted on 08/19/2013 9:42:30 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: ScubieNuc

While I figured we’ll all be called hypocrites for supporting Cruz should he decide to run, I have to remember what it will take to save this country and he seems to be one hell of a guy. I think he could do it...he is that strong and even James Carville has acknowledged his huge talent.


21 posted on 08/19/2013 9:43:41 PM PDT by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - they were coup d'etats.)
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To: Southern Magnolia

His mother is a natural born American.


22 posted on 08/19/2013 9:44:18 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Ray76

At the time of Cruz’s birth, his father was a citizen of CUBA. That ggave Cruz three nationalities: Canadian by birthplace, Cuban from his father, American from his mother.


23 posted on 08/19/2013 9:44:32 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: noinfringers2

He says. No verification of any of the father’s history in Cuba.


24 posted on 08/19/2013 9:45:28 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: servo1969
Given his dual citizenship, Cruz could not only launch a White House bid, but he could also run for Canadian Parliament. With Cruz looking increasingly like a 2016 contender, questions over his eligibility to be president have only gotten louder — harkening back to the debunked conspiracy theories surrounding President Barack Obama’s citizenship.

Anyone who calls Obama's citizenship question "debunked" cannot be trusted as an authority on anyone else's situation in re: Natural Born Citizen status.

25 posted on 08/19/2013 9:48:58 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: servo1969
This is long, but covers the topic of Natural-Born Citizen completely:

NATURAL BORN CITIZENDEFINED
T.J. McCann, III

This authoring involves no consideration whatsoever of the contentious “birth certificate”, as the contents of that document are entirely irrelevant to the final conclusion. This analysis examines the importance of historic context in considering the terms of qualification for the Office of President of the United States, resolving that Barack Obama is incapable of being a natural born citizen and is thereby forever ineligible to hold that Office, based on established fact.

Introduction:
The positive mandate in Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5, that “No person except a natural born Citizen,… shall be eligible to the Office of President” is neither irrelevant nor antiquated and originates from the core philosophy of the Declaration of Independence, and U.S. Constitution, and is of the very same origin as our “unalienable rights” as American citizens.

“Natural born citizen” is a known, static definition, derived from Natural Law,a term of art outside of any Positive Law, hence the reason it needs no definition within the Constitution. This Natural Law involves a “self-evident” status so fundamental to our “unalienable rights” and freedoms, that it is expressed in the very first sentence of the Declaration of Independence: When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, …

A “natural born citizen” is a “self-evident” status upon birth because that offspring could not possibly be a citizen of, and owe allegiance to, any other country or peoples. Natural Born incorporates all aspects of citizenship heritance at birth, including that conveyed by the soil (jus soli) and that conveyed by both parents ‟blood allegiance” (jus sanguinis).

“Natural Born Citizen”, Not “Citizen”
The requirement for President in Article II is not "citizen" nor “citizen at birth”, but rather“ natural born citizen". In Alexander Hamilton's first draft of Article II the requirement was indeed only "citizen" or more accurately citizen at birth ("born citizen"). However they did not go with Hamilton's early draft of Article II.

From the Yale Law Journal [Vol. 97: 881] referencing John Jay’s letter to George Washington leading to the inclusion of “natural born citizen” [8]:On June 18, a little over a month before Jay's letter, Alexander Hamilton submitted a "sketch of a plan of government which 'was meant only to give a more correct view of his ideas, and to suggest the amendments which he should probably propose ... in... future discussion.' "40 Article IX, section 1 of the sketch provided: "No person shall be eligible to the office of President of the United States unless he be now a Citizen of one of the States, or hereafter be born a Citizen of the United States.": "Hamilton's draft, which appears to be an early version of the natural-born citizen clause, contains two distinct ideas: first, that those currently citizens will not be excluded from presidential eligibility, and second, that the President must be born a citizen. What actually transpired over this change in wording , replacing “born a citizen” with“ natural born citizen”, was that the President was no longer to be elected by Congress, but rather by the people, and therefore the office required more stringent safeties regarding the allegiance of the office holder.[12]By selection among the duly qualified and elected Congress, a certain degree of security was established for the office of President. However in transferring the responsibility to the citizens, a more stringent requirement was needed to ensure that any occupant of the Office would have allegiance to Constitutional principle sand American society. Especially given this draft change, it is clearly wrong to equate "natural born citizen" with anyone who is a citizen at birth. Similarly, it is improper to ignore the word "natural" in the phrase "natural born citizen" simply because one has no innate understanding of the meaning of "natural". Again, "natural" in "natural born citizen", in the language of our founding documents and principles, is a “self-evident” status upon birth, owing no allegiance to any other country, and thereby a full participant in this society. Given that the requirements for the Office of President have long been inscribed on parchment, since the founding of this country, it would be unreasonable to assume that the definition of "natural born citizen" was unknown or vague. This same Yale Law Journal article [Vol. 97: 881] recognizes that the only reasonable interpretation of “natural born citizen” would be that held by the founders at the time of ratifying the Constitution, and that this meaning was “clear.”[8]: "Constitutional scholars have traditionally approached the uncertainty surrounding the meaning of the natural-born citizen clause by inquiring into the specific meaningof the term "natural born" at the time of the Constitutional Convention. They conclude that a class of citizens should be considered natural born today only if they ould have been considered natural-born citizens under the law in effect at the time of the framing of the Constitution"(see footnote 8)

8. These writers assume that the phrase "natural born citizen" was a term of art during the preconstitutional period since the phrase is not defined in either the Constitution or the records of the Constitutional Convention. See Gordon, supra note2, at 2 ("The only explanation for the use of this term is the apparent belief of the Framers that its connotation was clear."); These two conclusions together indicate that 'scholars' believe that the one interpretation of "natural born citizen" by the founders from 200+ years ago remains intact, discernable, and the only valid interpretation today.

Natural Born Citizen vs. British “Common Law” Natural Born Subject:
Many reference British Common Law in search for a definitive answer as to the meaning of natural born, and resolve, by that Common Law, the definition of natural born to result from birth on the native soil of a country. Justice Gray does a thorough job of delving into British history in the landmark case of U.S. vs. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), even going back to Lord Coke and Calvin’s case (1608), some 180 years before this nation’s founding ,and preceding the Ark decision by 290 years.

However, in truth, Lord Coke’s decision in Calvin’s case is as fundamentally alien to these United States’ founding principles as the rest of British Common Law citizenship. Calvin’s case was landmark in its day, and the early modern common-law mind, for being the first to articulate a theoretical basis for territorial birthright citizenship. Calvin’s Case was not only influential in establishing the citizenship right of American colonials, but also was much later argued as the basis common-law rule for U.S. birthright citizenship. Calvin's Case is the earliest, most influential theoretical articulation by an English court of what came to be the common-law rule that a person's status was vested at birth, and based upon place of birth. .[7] However this recognition of British common law also ignores the inherent conflicts with the fundamental tenets of our Constitution, conflicts so profound philosophically that they were causal in the Revolutionary War and War of 1812. In Lord Coke’s decision, the law of the Creator is conflated with the law of England and being lain down via edict to the common man from that divine Crown through the judiciary. Even as described by Justice Gray in Wong Kim Ark, the Coke decision involves feudal concepts of “‘ligealty,’ ‘obedience,’ ‘faith,’ or ‘power’ of the ‘King’”.[11]

This feudal oblige and extension of the dominion of the Crown to ANY territory held by the King, even making “natural born subjects” of those born in America, contributed to British settlers leaving Britain in the first place and ultimately became a primary factor in the "Declaration of Independence", with colonists declaring themselves free of such an involuntary burden of the Crown while having no protection and no representation. In 1765 the British Jurist William Blackstone recognized the mandate of the Crown having changed the inherent meaning of "natural-born Subject", progressively over time, to be anyone born in British territory, regardless of the parents' allegiance or citizenship. Initially a child was born a natural-born subject if born on British soil, even if the child's parents were aliens. However, Blackstone later wrote in his 1765 Commentaries, the following[2]1:To encourage also foreign commerce, it was enacted by statute 25 Edw. III. st. 2. That all children born abroad, provided both their parents were at the time of the birth in allegiance to the king, and the mother had passed the seas by her husband's consent ,might inherit as if born in England: and accordingly it hath been so adjudged in behalf of merchants. But by several more modern statutes these restrictions are still farther taken off: so that all children, born out of the king's ligeance, whose fathers were natural-born subjects, are now natural-born subjects themselves, to all intents and purposes, without any exception; unless their said fathers were attainted, or banished beyond sea, for high treason; or were then in the service of a prince at enmity with Great Britain. This passage indicates that even those not born on British territory are to be thenceforth considered "natural born" because of blood lineage no less, and for the purpose of trade (aswell as the Treasury), showing that this is not a static understanding of "natural born", but one evolved over time and by “executive” mandate of the Crown – hardly any sort of “common law.”5

What Gray has represented as British “common law” natural born subject, was not static and was the evolution of Crown dictate over time, expressed in statutory law. This statutory definition is far removed from any sort of natural, “self-evident‟ term employed by the United States in its Constitution. Only 30 years prior to Blackstone’s writings, in 1736, British scholar Matthew Bacon recognized the fundamental meaning of "natural-born Subject" to be: "All those are natural-born Subjects whose Parents, at the Time of their Birth, were under the actual Obedience of our King, and whose Place of Birth was within his dominions." (Matthew Bacon, A New Abridgement of the Law, 1736, Vol 1, pg 77)2

Not only does this indicate that the place of birth must be within the "dominion" (British territory) itself, but it also indicates that the parents must be under the “actual obedience” of the King. The emphasis on “actual Obedience” seems to strongly differentiate that from a presumed obedience resulting from mere happenstance of birth within the dominion. Given this, those who had foreign allegiance did not give birth on British soil to British natural born subjects. This is definition by Bacon is the same as our own “Natural Law” Definition today, involving (1) the allegiance (citizenship) of both parents and (2) birth within the U.S. territory (dominion).

In Gray’s majority opinion for Wong Kim Ark, Gray makes two references to natural born citizen which directly conflict with his British common law approach. The first is a reference to Justice Waite’s opinion from Minor vs. Happersett[6], in which Waite refers to a Vattel’s definition of natural born citizen as birth to two citizen parents on country’s soil[10]. In the second, Justice Gray quotes from a pamphlet entitled “Alienigenae of the United States”, by Horace Binney, which used the term "natural born" in connection with a child of a citizen, but not in connection with a child of an alien parent. :The right of citizenship never descends in the legal sense, either by the common law or under the common naturalization acts. It is incident to birth in the country, or it is given personally by statute. The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle. (Binney’s statement, as cited by Gray U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark (1898)[11]) While Binney references both children as citizens, only the child born of a citizen is referenced as "natural born".

Justice Gray’s articulation of British Common Law in Wong Kim Ark regarding U.S. citizenship should be considered nothing short of an abomination, because it is truly runs contrary to the very origins and hard-won principles of this country. While Gray’s argument in Wong Kim Ark has had deleterious effect on citizenship, the case did not affect natural born citizen because Gray never pronounced that a natural born citizen was equivalent to a natural born Subject, despite obviously desiring to do so, and Gray never at all undermined 6 the definition provided by Justice Waite from Minor vs. Happersett. While Wong Kim Ark was pronounced a citizen of the United States, Ark was never declared to be a natural born citizen of the United States. George Mason, called the "Father of the Bill of Rights" and considered one of the "Founding Fathers" of the United States, is widely quoted as saying: The common law of England is not the common law of these states. (Debate in Virginia Ratifying Convention, 19 June 1788) More recently Justice Antonin Scalia confirmed the irrelevancy of British Common Law: The common law is gone. The federal courts never applied the common law and even in the state courts it's codified now. (Audio/Video: Justice Scalia speech, Nov 22, 2008)

Citizen vs. Subject:
Those who argue that meaning of “natural born citizen” can be resolved by looking to British common law “natural born Subject” ignore the vast difference between Citizen and Subject. AMichigan Law Review article considers the profound difference between Citizen and Subject[9]: So far we have assumed that the conventional meaning of “natural born citizen” for those learned in the law in the eighteenth century was equivalent to the meaning of “natural born subject” in nineteenth century English law. But is this assumption correct? Does the substitution of the term “citizen” for “subject” alter the meaning of the phrase? And if those learned in the law did recognize a difference, what implications does that have for the meaning of the natural born citizen clause? The distinction between citizens and subjects is reflected in Chief Justice John Jay’s opinion in Chisholm v. Georgia, the first great constitutional case decided after the ratification of the Constitution of 1789: “[A]t the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people; and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects. . . .”

Justice James Wilson confirmed Jay’s articulation of the opposition between subjects and citizens. The term “citizen” reflects the notion that individual citizens are the soil, and via “blood” heritance from the parents. While both British common law “natural born subject” and American “natural born citizen” might be said to involve “birthright” citizenship, the former involves an unequal obligation to the Crown and the latter involves natural, self-evident recognition of at-birth conditions of the citizen, with that citizen being sovereign, and a full member of American society having no allegiance to any other society.

Supreme Court Opinion:
While there are deviations from the Natural Law definition of “natural born”, these deviations have generally been asserted on the state rather than federal level and part of court “obiter dicta” , offered without any supporting legal argument. Both British common law and American statutory history involve such assertions, yet these do not change the fundamental meaning of “natural born”, as it is exerting statutory definition on a term outside of Positive Law, when it is resolved by natural, self-evident means.

Not surprisingly the first 100+ years of this country’s history are spanned by Supreme Court opinions clearly indicating the definition of natural born citizen, and repeatedly indicating the same reference consulted by our founders as they authored the Constitution in Carpenter's Hall, that reference being Emmerich de Vattel's "Law of Nations".

1814 The Venus, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 289 (1814) (Marshall, C.J., concurring) (cites Vattel’s definition of natural born citizens);

1830 Shanks vs. Dupont, 28 U.S. 242, 245 (1830) (same definition without citing Vattel);

1875 Minor vs. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167-68 (1875) (same definition without citing Vattel);

1879 Ex parte Reynolds, 1879, 5 Dill., 394, 402 (same definition and cites Vattel);

1890 United States vs. Ward, 42 F.320 (C.C.S.D. Cal. 1890) (same definition and cites Vattel);

1898 U.S. vs. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) (same definition and C.J, Fuller’s dissent confirming Vattel’s definition of a “natural born Citizen” );

1899 Keith vs. U.S., 8 Okla. 446; 58 P. 507 (Okla. 1899) (common law rule that the offspring of free persons followed the condition of the father was applied to determine the citizenship status of a child);
26 posted on 08/19/2013 9:56:33 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for the American politburo!!)
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To: servo1969

Welcome to the 2016 campaign Senator!


27 posted on 08/19/2013 10:00:55 PM PDT by rhinohunter (Freepers aren't booing -- they're shouting "Cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuz")
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To: servo1969

The response is correct - Minor vs. Happersett did not, in any way, shape, manor, or form, make the declaration that so many claim that it did - indeed, the court clearly stated that matter was not before them to decide in that ruling. Many other rulings have indeed made specific declarations about it, which those who cling to the incorrect declarations about Minor conveniently ignore.


28 posted on 08/19/2013 10:15:47 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
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To: Jonty30

“Natural born” citizenship, until the Age of Obama held to be required by our Constitution as a condition of eligibility for holding the office of President, rests on two “legs.” One is both parents being U. S. citizens, and the other is the birth occurring on U. S. territory.
Obama’s father was not ever an American citizen. Ergo, Barack Hussein Obama is not a natural born citizen, regardless of the location of his birth.
Canada is not U. S. territory. Ergo, Sen. Cruz, albeit a fine citizen, is not a natural born citizen of the U.S.A.


29 posted on 08/19/2013 10:24:28 PM PDT by Elsiejay
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To: Jonty30

“citizenship” and “natural born citizenship” are separate and distinct categories. The latter is specified by (a) citizenship of parents and (b) birth on U. S. territory.


30 posted on 08/19/2013 10:28:04 PM PDT by Elsiejay
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To: plain talk
IF Cruz does decide to run for President the Dems will be all over this and claim he is not a NBC and therefore is ineligible.

And he is ineligible, and so is Barak.

It saddens me to think we are willing to ignore the Constitution when it favors our side, by saying, well the other side got away with it, so can we.

31 posted on 08/19/2013 10:51:13 PM PDT by itsahoot (It is not so much that history repeats, but that human nature does not change.)
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To: Jonty30

Father was not a citizen until 2005.


32 posted on 08/19/2013 10:55:38 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: rhinohunter
Welcome to the 2016 campaign Senator!

The fact that Ted declares himself eligible to be President, tells you a lot about his understanding of the Constitution, I find his knowledge on the subject to be lacking, and so should all those that declared Obama to be ineligible.

33 posted on 08/19/2013 11:00:45 PM PDT by itsahoot (It is not so much that history repeats, but that human nature does not change.)
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To: servo1969
We live only about 3 hours from the Canadian border. One of my friends sisters was born in Canada because her parents had went on a day trip at 8 months pregnant and she was born early. It was an emergency situation and she was born at the nearest Canadian hospital in 1966.

NY state gave her a NY birth certificate when they came back, or so her brother says. Which makes me think that's what happened with Obama. His mother got home from Kenya ASAP and Hawaii gave her a birth certificate, which is why Hawaii is so secretive about protecting their breaking the law because they and other states did it many times before.

Ted Cruz— I like him but he doesn't appear to be natural born. Although, being a Cuban married to an American citizen in 1970, what were the “rules” pertaining to citizenship? And what about all of the people that have father listed as “unknown”?

And even if Cruz can't run, at least he produced a real Birth Certificate, not some fake looking form called a birth certificate like Obama.

34 posted on 08/19/2013 11:49:19 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: servo1969

Cruz needs to immediately renounce his Canadian citizenship or he is toast.


35 posted on 08/20/2013 12:18:37 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: MacMattico
And even if Cruz can't run, at least he produced a real Birth Certificate, not some fake looking form called a birth certificate like Obama.

He can't run for POTUS - he fails to meet the Natural Born Citizen requirement.

He is a fine Senator and can hold other state and Federal offices.

Good for him to post an actual birth certificate - one that hasn't been digitally doctored to bits and pieces. But the people (BO supporters) who are pushing hard for him to run for POTUS don't care about the authenticity of his birth certificate.

36 posted on 08/20/2013 12:29:38 AM PDT by thecodont
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To: DustyMoment

TJ is entitled to his opinion but US law only recognizes 2 categories of citizens, natural born and naturalized. This idea of other types of citizens is all conjecture.


37 posted on 08/20/2013 1:46:36 AM PDT by iowamark
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To: noinfringers2

Here you go. Rafael Cruz explaining his relationship with Cuba.

http://youtu.be/DGURa1DfWEo


38 posted on 08/20/2013 2:36:51 AM PDT by MagnoliaB
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To: kabumpo

You forgot to mention that his father didn’t become US citizen until 2005 ;)


39 posted on 08/20/2013 2:55:36 AM PDT by Bikkuri (Molon Labe)
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To: Elsiejay

I gave up arguing that point long ago.. They don’t see what they don’t agree with :^/


40 posted on 08/20/2013 2:56:37 AM PDT by Bikkuri (Molon Labe)
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To: kabumpo

Apologies about my previous post.. I should have read the rest of the thread before posting ;^)


41 posted on 08/20/2013 2:57:47 AM PDT by Bikkuri (Molon Labe)
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To: servo1969

No wonder he kept his mouth shut about Obama.

Rule by thieves.


42 posted on 08/20/2013 2:57:47 AM PDT by Diggity
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To: iowamark

You know, after 5 years of discussion of this issue on FR, it is astonishing the number of people who continue to post, “natural born citizenship requires two citizen parents born on US soil” as if it is specifically so stated in the Constitution.

Three questions or comments for them:

1. Do we really want the Courts to arrogate themselves the power to override an election? Aren’t they overly powerful already? Which clause of the Constitution gives the Supremes the power to depose an elected President?

2. If BO were declared ineligible tomorrow by the Supremes, and he stepped down (questionable), he would be replaced, presumably, by Mr. Biden. Is this supposed to be some huge improvement?

3. There is no provision in the Constitution for a mechanism by which a candidate certifies his eligibility. It seems obvious to me that this is because the Founders left such certification up to the Electoral College, which was intended to actually elect the President. As we all know, it almost instantly lost any such actual role, and became a rubber stamp for individual voters, with minor exceptions such as SC pre-war.

So by default the job of ensuring only eligible candidates are elected descends to the voters as a group. If they don’t care enough about the Constitution to enforce it by refusing to vote for an ineligible candidate, the Constitution provides no cure.


43 posted on 08/20/2013 3:01:09 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

In your #3, you show your lack of understanding of the Constitution.

The requirement for the President-elect and the Vice President-elect to qualify to serve in their elective offices is in Amendment XX, Section 3. Note that the burden to qualify is on those two people, not on the USSC.

The burden for declaring that one or both of those people did or did not qualify themselves is, presumably, on the U. S. Congress.

BTW, your #2 is a political point, not a legal or Constitutional point.

And, your #1 shows you think that making an argument that explains the definition of NBC based on historical documents is one that does not base any of the argument on the Constitution. Wrong. The Constitution makes it clear the requirement is that the person must be a Natural Born Citizen. At that point, it must be determined what that phrase meant at the time it was written. Thus, it is necessary to use historical documents to learn what the phrase meant to those who wrote and agreed to the Constitution. Do you really not understand that?


44 posted on 08/20/2013 3:31:38 AM PDT by savedbygrace (But God!)
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To: servo1969

It’s incredible to me, absolutely incredible, how quickly and far a country can fall. The requirement that our President be a Natural Born Citizen means that (s)he is born on U.S. soil to two American citizens. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts.

But apparently in our Brave New One Big Happy New World Order existence, that is now mere folly, and those who would insist upon its adherence are obviously hopelessly Old School and probably racist to boot.


45 posted on 08/20/2013 3:50:56 AM PDT by SuzyQueIN
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To: SuzyQueIN
Agreed.

There's no way the Tea Party so frightened the powers that be that they ordered the IRS to target them. There's also no way Marco Rubio ran as a Tea Party star without he himself and a number of others knowing full well his stance on amnesty.

So it follows that there's no way Ted Cruz is a stealth candidate that will serve to divide the Tea Party. No way.

46 posted on 08/20/2013 4:28:06 AM PDT by WhoisAlanGreenspan?
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To: itsahoot

I agree in consistent rules and let chips fall where they may. Screw hypocrisy on either side. My point is dems will suddenly get energized about NBC. :-)


47 posted on 08/20/2013 7:40:07 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: Republican Wildcat

A question:

Why then were references to minor vs happersett scrubbed from the justia law database around the election time?


48 posted on 08/20/2013 8:03:05 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: MacMattico

“...Ted Cruz—I like him but he doesn’t appear to be natural born. Although,being a Cuban married to an American citizen in 1970,what were the “rules” pertaining to citizenship? And what about all of the people that have father listed as “unknown”?”...”

You bring up a good point, what about all the people that have father listed as “unknown”.

Do we assume that, if those people were born here, that their fathers were American citizens?

As for me, I like Cruz where he is, the Senate.


49 posted on 08/20/2013 8:14:35 AM PDT by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: iowamark
This idea of other types of citizens is all conjecture.

Not true. Mr. McCann's essay is solidly based on both American and British law. The British law is a necessary component of his essay because it was the foundation of our laws and our Constitution.

If you follow the thread of "natural-born", it will take you back to British law and their concept of "natural law" which, ultimately, comes from Aristotle's definition of "natural law". Mr. McCann included the various types of citizens because, within the terms used in British law, citizen and subject appear and have specific meaning. In order to provide a clear and unambiguous definition of "natural-born citizen", Mr. McCann had to include those British terms because those are the laws that the Founders would have been most familiar with and on which they based severl concepts in the Constitution.

So, your claim that it is mere conjecture is incorrect. You wiull also note that, at the end of the essay, he cites several legal cases, including SCOTUS cases, that incorporate or further define the terms "citizen", "subject" and "natural-born".

50 posted on 08/20/2013 9:58:53 AM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for the American politburo!!)
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