Posted on 10/26/2013 1:04:01 AM PDT by moonshinner_09
Cops took no more than 10 seconds to fire six or seven shots into the body of dying teenager Andy Lopez after seeing him with a toy pellet gun. Mr Lopez was spotted by deputies on Tuesday afternoon in Santa Rosa, California, carrying the toy rifle, which they mistakenly thought was a real assault weapon. The time that elapsed between when officers reported the sighting to dispatch and then reported shots fired was only 10 seconds. Hundreds of local residents marched on Wednesday night to remember the popular teen and protest at the senseless shooting. They chanted 'We need justice' as they questioned how the deputies could mistake a pellet gun for an assault rifle.According to a police statement, Lopez was twice instructed to put down his weapon, officers opened fire after he failed to comply - only 10 seconds later. Sixteen seconds later, the cops radioed for medical assistance. Ethan Oliver, who lives across the street, told KTVU.com that the deputies continued to shoot at the boy, even after he had fallen to the ground. Oliver said he went outside after hearing two gun shots and by that time Lopez was already on the ground. ‘Then the cops went at it again and unloaded like six to seven shots,’ he said.When asked if he meant that the deputy shot Lopez while he was on the ground, Oliver said, ‘Yeah. Exactly what I saw.’ Authorities haven't responded to his claims, but it raises the possibility that Lopez was still alive when he hit the ground after the first two shots were fired.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
This is not right!!!!! No dogs available to shoot I suppose!!
The local taxpayers will be shelling out at least 3 million via a lawsuit. Might take a while but this is what will happen due to some lo-IQ cowardly police
Chip, from reading the article, this was no chickenfinger. The kid had what looked almost indistinguishable from a gun. That is still not enough to support shooting him. Two warnings to drop the gun, ignored. Probably still not enough to support the shooting. At least some evidence suggests he raised the barrel in the direction of the cops. If true—and I don’t know if it is true— that justifies the shooting. Agreed?
Yes, it would seem an eternity to a person reacting to a perceived danger. A person who doesn't react to a stimulus in 10 seconds is probably not very excited about anything, or is focused on something else. Not a reason to let your guard down per se, but perhaps a reason to take stock and try to understand the situation better.
Of course, it might be different if the targets are shooting back. And seeking cover. Turnabout is fair play, except in victim disarmament zones...
Yes, things are different on the two way rifle range, something I sincerely hope none of us ever have to experience in this country.
Ten seconds is a long time when you think someone is pointing a semiautomatic rifle at you.
You are a pathetic moron, not worth having a conversation.
Goodbye.
“If you are dealing with cops, having video to show what REALLY happened is critical. Pity, because it didn’t used to be that way.”
A lot of my brother and sister gunnies are doing exactly that: they don’t carry unless they have a camera or recorder going.
So they say.
How loud could those warnings have been if while they were giving them they were drawing their weapons, opening the door, positioning themselves behind them, and taking careful aim -- all of that within 10 seconds.
Sorry but before you take someone's life you better make sure you know why you are pulling that trigger and then give them enough time to understand the warning and then comply. 10 seconds is not enough.
This was a situation where time was on their side but they didn't take it.
“No excuse for shooting down a 13 year old boy less he’s firing or its imminent”
The “toy” was indistinguishable from a real AK47.
Age was irrelevant; clearly he was old enough to do harm with an AK47.
Refusing multiple orders from cops, then turning the gun at them, practically defines “imminent” as you use it.
I’m no “JBT bootlicker” I just understand judicious use of deadly force.
My brothers and I had a pellet gun with a telescopic sight back in the 60’s.
We could kill pigeons at 200 feet, and break bottles at 100 feet.
This is a tragic death.
But I disagree about overreaction.
There are violent Hispanic gangs in Santa Rosa, the gun clearly resembles an AK-47, the photo I saw looks like it has a metal barrel and a metal magazine, the young man did not respond to two shouted police commands, and he turned himself and the weapon in the direction of police officers.
An instantaneous decision was necessary.
I’m ex-military, and I couldn’t come close. My SIL is ex-USMC infantry, and he’s never seen anyone come close to doing that in combat.
Your examples are a bit flawed. Jerry Miculek once fired 6 shots from a revolver, reloaded and fired 6 more shots in under 3 seconds. That is hardly a realistic example of what an average person can do with a 6 shot revolver...
Thank you for your service and that of your SIL to out country
If you read my original post, the point I was trying to make was this - if the police officers were in an area that was filled with a number of innocent bystanders and they say a guy carrying what appears to be an illegal AK-47 the thoughts that could be going through the cops minds that the guy was about to do a gangster style, or mass murder type shooting.
And they may have acted accordingly to protect the people or themselves. We don't know the circumstances and we were not there.
In order to shut down the pointless debate on how many angels can be shot on the head of a pin with with an AK-47 I hear by officially retract any representations on the body count that could be generated by an AK in any given space of time under any conditions.
It's irrelevant because law abiding gun owners don't shoot anyone unless they defending their lives and that fact is proven by hard statistics.
The big issue I have here is that the gun in question, under close inspection, seriously looks like a AK -47 with the barrel sawed down to 12 inches (the barrel is in fact sawed down to around 12”, it's just not an AK-47)
Mere possession of a rifle with a barrel less than 16” is a felony good for 10 years in federal prison unless it is registered as a Class III weapon under the National Firearms Act (NFA).
As an ex military weapons professional, I am sure you are fully aware of this fact.
It turns out AK-47s with a sawed off barrel are all the rage with the teen aged gangster spray and pray who are committing a lot of the gangland drug related murders .
This pellet rifle appears to have been modified to look for all the world to be a fully loaded illegal sawed off weapon which is the popular in the local gang culture, and the mere possession of which is a felony good for 10 years in Club Fed.
According to another poster , the 13 year old victim has a Facebook page that suggests he was a gangster wannabe, in which case his intent may have been to intentionally make it look like he was a bad guy in the hood carrying a sawed off AK. He also reportedly had been dressed in a fashion that fits the gang banger profile.
The area where the shooting occurred is an area where gang violence is common and a significant problem so, from a police officer's perspective, the whole scenario fit the text book set up for gang related spray and pray shooting where a lot of innocent bystanders get shot up in an area where such events are most expected to happen.
This is exactly the type of situation where one would most hope a police officer could intervene to prevent a tragedy.
This does not excuse the behavior of the officers involved ( and it is not obvious that any excuse is need as their actions may prove justified) , but it does add context as to why they may have made a well intentioned, snap decision based on the best information the officers had under the circumstances that resulted in a terrible mistake.
There is saying ,”when seconds count, the police are just minutes away”.
This is an unfortunate case where when seconds count, the police actually were on the scene and in those critical seconds that count, they made a decision based visual cues that fit the profile of a gangster carrying a gangster weapon, that in retrospect was tragic when it was later found that the gangster weapon was very well done mock up of a real gangster gun.
Consider this, if that AK-47 that is indistinguishable from a real one had turned out to be a real, fully loaded sawed off barrel AK -47 gang banger special, that shooting would have been viewed as a justified shooting that may have saved the lives of many people.
How could those officers have known it was not real as they drove up and got out of their car, and had to make a snap, on the spot decision in a time “when seconds count”.
I apologize to anyone here I may have offended, but I was and continue to be very offended by the comments that these officers were blood thirsty psychopaths bent on killing poor children, or that they were reckless, irresponsible cowards without any proof that that is the case.
Our police officers are dealing with situations on the street that are every bit as bad as our troops had to deal with in Iraq and in some of our cities the body count is actually higher than it was in Iraq.
A 13 year old with basically a toy gun.
There is no justification.
It turns out AK-47s with a sawed off barrel are all the rage with the teen aged gangster spray and pray who are committing a lot of the gangland drug related murders .
Let me ask for those statistics, how many people in this country have been shot by an AK-47? Must be thousands and thousands....
I think you need a refresher course in the Law.
The standard for self-defense is “Reasonable Expectation” of death or injury.
Those cops should be put on trial for murder. There is no excuse for what they did.
So you can kill 30 -40 people in less than 30 seconds.
So firing at a rate of faster than once per second every shot will be fatal?
Sergeant Instructor Alfred Snoxall couldn't do that.
Got any other boogiemen you'd like to spring on us?
Unless there is video it is ALL one word against another. All we know is the cops shot the kid, who had a replica of a gun. You and I weren’t there— at least I wasn’t it.
And we also don’t know what was going on in the cops’ heads.
what was going on in his head.... for 10 seconds
Is it standard procedure for policemen to shoot somebody who is lying wounded on the ground?
Re: “You sound like an idiot.”
Actually, I sound like a guy who just paraphrased direct quotes from the linked article.
I’m sorry you don’t like the facts as reported.
Obviously an instantaneous decision was NOT necessary in this case.
It was disastrous.
Police see what appears to be an AK47 and they go all ballistic.
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