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Is Emanuel's Chicago On Path To Financial Collapse?
Investor's Business Daily ^ | Npvember 14, 2013 | IBD EDITORIALS

Posted on 11/14/2013 5:03:32 PM PST by raptor22

Fiscal Disaster: A major credit rating agency has just given Chicago, with more general obligation debt per capita than Detroit, its second triple-notch downgrade in six months. Its bonds are perilously close to junk status.

Citing skyrocketing pension costs and a lack of meaningful solutions, Fitch Ratings lowered Chicago's debt to A- from AA- last week, making it the second serious downgrade since July.

The move by Fitch follows a triple downgrade of Chicago's bond rating by Moody's Investors in mid-July.

Moody's cited the city's "very large and growing" pension liabilities and "significant" debt service payments, among other factors.

The steady financial decline of the nation's third-largest city prompted us in early August to say Chicago was well on its way to becoming the next Detroit, a bankrupt monument to the perils of Democratic governance, a one-party Democratic town in arguably the bluest of blue states. And Chicago's mayor, former White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, learned financial discipline at the feet of the master — President Obama.

Like the president, Emanuel could claim he inherited the city's financial mess from his predecessor, but that would require blaming another Democratic mayor, Richard J. Daley.

Interestingly, Democratic governance is a common thread running through America's urban problems.

As the Chicago Tribune noted in its recent report on the problem, "Broken Bonds," Chicago's outstanding debt on general obligation bonds has quadrupled during the past 18 years, reaching $7.2 billion last year.

With interest, that amount nearly doubles. The city has more general obligation debt per capita than any of the 10 largest U.S. cities except New York.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: chicago; chicagoway; detroit; ibd; illinois; pensions; rahmbo; rahmenanuel
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1 posted on 11/14/2013 5:03:32 PM PST by raptor22
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To: raptor22

I hope so. The sooner the Ultimate Breakdown comes, the better.


2 posted on 11/14/2013 5:05:33 PM PST by Tax-chick (It's like everyone has Attention Deficit Disorder, except for me.)
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To: Still Thinking; StopGlobalWhining; Straight Vermonter; Tampa Caver; TChris; ...

IBD EDITORIAL PING


3 posted on 11/14/2013 5:05:34 PM PST by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22
zero will bail the ballerina out
4 posted on 11/14/2013 5:06:01 PM PST by ronnie raygun
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To: raptor22

I continue to believe that NY, Il, and CA, and by inclusion NYC, Chicago, and Los Angeles, will get federally guaranteed bonds before the end of Baraq’s term.

These three states are the bedrock of Democrat electoral strategy and will be protected at any cost.


5 posted on 11/14/2013 5:06:50 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: raptor22

The major difference between Chicago and Detroit is that Chicago still has a tax base which is strong enough, relatively, to more than compensate than the difference in liability. Chicago may not be in a good position, but a one-dimensional use of stats won’t present reality.


6 posted on 11/14/2013 5:08:49 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: raptor22
Fitch Ratings lowered Chicago's debt to A- from AA-

That high? You'd think Fitch would've learned its lesson in the mortgage-backed security debacle.

7 posted on 11/14/2013 5:08:59 PM PST by MUDDOG
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To: MUDDOG

Political pressure can be intense on the rating agencies. Remember this is the Chicago mob running DC.


8 posted on 11/14/2013 5:09:58 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation

Maybe that’s the real reason that the Fed is printing trillions of $. Those bonds will come from Yellen.


9 posted on 11/14/2013 5:12:47 PM PST by batterycommander (a little more rubble, a lot less trouble)
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To: raptor22

I thought Rahnmadamading-dong was a big mouthed
blowhard but his brother, the one with the MD on
the other side of his E-manual, has him beat all
ta....hell. I’d bet his med school professors and
classmates just hated him.


10 posted on 11/14/2013 5:14:36 PM PST by Sivad (NorCal red turf)
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To: nascarnation

Good point.


11 posted on 11/14/2013 5:17:06 PM PST by MUDDOG
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To: raptor22
As a resident of the People's Socialist RepuliK of Illinois, I thought Illinois (as a state) was already "junk bond status" so why would anyone be surprised Chicago's getting downgraded again?

What I don't understand is how can the entire state be junk bond status and Chicago (gee, a part of Illinois) be A-??

12 posted on 11/14/2013 5:20:59 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Grampa Dave; granite; GreenFreeper; grjr21; I got the rope; IchBinEinBerliner; jaredt112; JayB; ...

IBD EDITORIAL PING


13 posted on 11/14/2013 5:21:51 PM PST by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: Hieronymus; All

I live in the People’s Republic of Chicago and watched how 200,00 people left the city in a decade. The tax base is fleeing, voting with their feet.


14 posted on 11/14/2013 5:24:03 PM PST by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

Does anyone want to buy tickets to the new ballet, “The SS Chicago Meets an Economic Iceberg”, with Rahm Emanuel as the lead ballerina?

First 10 people get a free TuTu.


15 posted on 11/14/2013 5:26:54 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: batterycommander

Every day is a sweet day
at Ben & Janet’s

(until someday when the cruel justice of the markets finally falls like the sword of judgement)


16 posted on 11/14/2013 5:40:31 PM PST by nascarnation
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To: Tax-chick

Both brothers aren’t faring too well right now are they? That’s a good thing for those liberal lollipop lickers


17 posted on 11/14/2013 5:43:53 PM PST by jsanders2001
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To: Hieronymus

>> a one-dimensional use of stats won’t present reality.

Your zero-dimensional claim with no supporting evidence (e.g. links) doesn’t present reality either.

So put up, or STFU.


18 posted on 11/14/2013 6:19:37 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: raptor22
"Interestingly, Democratic governance is a common thread running through America's urban problems." Captain Obvious photo: Captain Obvious obvious3bq.gif
19 posted on 11/14/2013 6:30:06 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: Nervous Tick; MinuteGal

Chicago is not Detroit, at least not yet. Chicago has a fairly good tax base, and people are not leaving the city in droves, not by a long shot. And Chicago has its beautiful lakefront, and a lot of rich people living in the city. And it is not all black like Detroit, it is a potpourri of multicultural residents. It’s tax base is not shot. You are wrong in your assessment, you don’t live here, and you were rather nasty to boot to someone who gave an accurate assessment of the city. By the way, the State of IL is not junk bond status either.

Illinois has lots of problems, but there are a lot of cities that will fall like a deck of cards before Chicago will. Illinois needs to get rid of all Dem rule and then things will get better. However, the Dems have stacked the deck by district gerrymandering, so it will be difficult to get rid of the infestation of Rats. Chicago is a beautiful city with lots of history, and I hate having the city and the state being given such a black eye by the likes of Obama and his thugs having once lived here. I hope Obama retires back to Hawaii from whence he came, or back to Kenya where he was born.


20 posted on 11/14/2013 6:58:18 PM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: flaglady47

>> you were rather nasty to boot to someone

Huh? You’re full of yourself. I didn’t “boot” anyone; I told him to back up his claims.

Which he didn’t.

And neither did you.


21 posted on 11/14/2013 7:03:22 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: raptor22

Sad. The Chicago of my youth was a glorious, exciting city with great museums, theaters, restaurants, shopping. Style at every level, first-rate people too.

So now you know how old I am....


22 posted on 11/14/2013 7:05:12 PM PST by Veto!
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

IBD EDITORIAL PING


23 posted on 11/14/2013 7:06:47 PM PST by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: Veto!

Indeed it is sad, The city of big shoulders is stooped over.


24 posted on 11/14/2013 7:07:51 PM PST by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

I’m not anti Semitic, but the likes of the Emanuel brothers are the reason the Nazis built ovens.

Rahm and Zeke are giving Marx and Lenin a run for their money for sure.


25 posted on 11/14/2013 7:11:37 PM PST by Rome2000 (THE WASHINGTONIANS AND UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE ARE THE ENEMY -ROTATE THE CAPITAL AMONGST THE STATES)
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To: raptor22

cool! couldn’t happen to a nicer city and mayor.


26 posted on 11/14/2013 7:13:08 PM PST by Farnsworth (Now playing in America: "Stupid is the new normal")
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To: raptor22

Who woulda thunk ... but Manny should be able to rescue the crisis and not let it go to waste the way Detroit did.


27 posted on 11/14/2013 7:13:38 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (An Administration of communists, incompetents, and the corrupt ...reminds one of FDR's brain trust.)
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To: raptor22

Isn’t the correct question; “When will Emanuel’s Chicago financially collapse.”


28 posted on 11/14/2013 7:15:33 PM PST by Fzob (Jesus + anything = nothing, Jesus + nothing = everything)
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To: flaglady47

>> Fitch Ratings lowered Chicago’s debt to A- from AA- last week, making it the second serious downgrade since July.

That’s a FACT. Are you capable of addressing it?

>> The move by Fitch follows a triple downgrade of Chicago’s bond rating by Moody’s Investors in mid-July.

That’s a FACT. you capable of addressing it?

Moody’s cited the city’s “very large and growing” pension liabilities and “significant” debt service payments, among other factors.

That’s a FACT. you capable of addressing it?

>> Democratic governance is a common thread running through America’s urban problems.

That’s a FACT. you capable of addressing it?

>> Chicago’s outstanding debt on general obligation bonds has quadrupled during the past 18 years, reaching $7.2 billion last year.

That’s a FACT. you capable of addressing it?

>> With interest, that amount nearly doubles. The city has more general obligation debt per capita than any of the 10 largest U.S. cities except New York.

That’s a FACT. you capable of addressing it?


29 posted on 11/14/2013 7:19:53 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Nervous Tick

Tick—

If you have been following Detroit (home of the $1 house) at all and know Chicago in any way, I don’t think links are needed.

My initial comments on the flaws of the one-dimensional use of stats were directed at the author of the article, but you seem to have identified with the author, so here you go for links. (BTW my delay in response hasn’t been because there was any difficulty in finding information but because I had kids to put to bed.)

If you want links, have links.

Median household price in Detroit is under $10,000
http://www.freep.com/article/20120624/BUSINESS04/206240311/

Median household price in Chicago is near $250,000
http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Chicago-Illinois/market-trends/

If your residential tax base is 23 or 24 times higher, you can support a great deal more debt a great deal longer. I’m not saying that Chicago isn’t destined for the great economic sewer, but a doom and gloom article needs to do more homework before presenting it as being just around the corner.

(I’d bet that the commercial tax base shows an even greater differential.)


30 posted on 11/14/2013 7:30:30 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Hieronymus

>> Median household price in Detroit is under $10,000
http://www.freep.com/article/20120624/BUSINESS04/206240311/

Apples and oranges.

What was the median household price in Detroit BEFORE they went down the toilet?

You’ve done nothing to counteract the author’s facts pointing to the coming municipal finance catastrophe in Chicago that will certainly rival what happened in Detroit.

Debt and liabilities in Chicago are breathtaking. Unsustainably so.

As went Detroit, so shall go Chicago. Your fact-free protestations notwithstanding. It’s simply a matter of time.


31 posted on 11/14/2013 7:36:33 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Hieronymus

>> a doom and gloom article needs to do more homework before presenting it as being just around the corner.

Can you please...

a) Define what exactly you mean by “just around the corner”? How many days/weeks/months is “just around the corner”?

b) Show where in the referenced article ANY timeline whatsoever is given, let alone one that mentions “just around the corner”, or aligns with your above definition of “just around the corner”?


32 posted on 11/14/2013 7:41:42 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Nervous Tick

Add time and you can claim anything.

Detroit debt per capita as of 2012 is $3223; Chicago isn’t far behind at $3116; http://online.wsj.com/news/interactive/CITIES2013?ref=SB10001424052702304799404579157780077670894

On the other hand, Detroit’s taxable real-estate per capita is a bit under $27,000 http://online.wsj.com/news/interactive/CITIES2013?ref=SB10001424052702304799404579157780077670894

Chicago doesn’t even make the bottom ten of that list, which indicates that whatever troubles it has, they aren’t nearly of the same magnitude as Detroit’s.

The WSJ article also makes the nice point that Detroit’s population dropped nearly a quarter over the decade: I don’t think Chicago has problems of the same magnitude.

I hope you enjoy the links—but if you look at flaglady’s home page, you’ll note that she is from the Chicago burbs, and the observations of someone with common sense on the ground may be worth taking into account, even if they don’t have links all over the place.


33 posted on 11/14/2013 7:50:31 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Hieronymus

>> Detroit’s population dropped nearly a quarter over the decade: I don’t think Chicago has problems of the same magnitude.

Comparing post-apocalypse and pre-apocalypse cities on such statistics does not bolster the case that Chicago isn’t on the road to ruin.

>> if you look at flaglady’s home page, you’ll note that she is from the Chicago burbs, and the observations of someone with common sense on the ground may be worth taking into account

Yeah, sure. On the other hand, there may be home-team bias clouding the judgment. My own common sense, and the financial FACTS, point me in that latter direction.


34 posted on 11/14/2013 7:58:08 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Nervous Tick

How about you look at paragraph five of the article:

“The steady financial decline of the nation’s third-largest city prompted us in early August to say Chicago was well on its way to becoming the next Detroit,”

“Well on its way” and “next” are something of a timeline. I’ll leave it to you and to the author of the article which you are defending to figure it out.

“Next,” given the prevalence of Democratic governance in major cities, is a pretty high bar to meet, and if you and the author of the article think that no city is going under in the next 20 years, and Chicago is next, then there doesn’t seem to be much pressing about the situation.

If I understand the relation between the medical industry, Obamacare, and Cleveland correctly, I’d put my money there over Chicago—Chicago also has the additional advantage of having a stranglehold on state finances.

Next? I’d bet against it.


35 posted on 11/14/2013 7:58:14 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Nervous Tick

You are good at asking for links and capitalizing FACTS—why don’t you try bringing some additional facts of your own to the ball-game.

Yeah, if Chicago hits the apocalypse, things will be bad, but if you want to back up someone who says that Chicago is NEXT, why don’t you produce some statistics showing that the apocalypse has actually begun.


36 posted on 11/14/2013 8:02:09 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Nervous Tick; MinuteGal

More facts:

“Pete Saunders, an urban planner who grew up in Detroit and now lives in Chicago, offers evidence that outcome is unlikely (excerpt):

Writing in Crain’s Chicago Business this week, he lays out three main elements that will allow Chicago to escape Detroit’s fate:

1) Chicago is way bigger:

A report from the federal Bureau of Economic Analysis released in February shows that Chicago metro area GDP in 2011 was $548 billion annually, making it the third largest in the nation after New York and Los Angeles. That makes the Chicago economy nearly three times larger than Detroit’s, which checks in at $199 billion. Chicago’s economy is also more diverse than Detroit’s, with no one industry sector making up more than 13 percent of the metro area workforce.

2) Chicago’s fiscal structure is less concentrated than Detroit’s:

the dozens of municipal corporations and special-purpose districts here, lacking in Detroit, meant the fiscal burden could be spread around. As a result, City Hall ends up having fewer direct responsibilities and a slightly rosier fiscal picture.

3) The two cities have fundamentally different characters in a way no one really talks about:

There was a certain disposableness built into Detroit — cheaply built homes and low-quality business districts dominate much of the city. Disposability long ago sent a message to Detroiters: As you move up, you move out. Chicago, meanwhile, was built with a sense of permanence. Chicago has a physical character that tells its residents that it is worth having, worth saving.

In sum: Chicago has problems, but Detroit remains a unique mess.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chicago-is-not-the-next-detroit-2013";

Analysis: Why we’re not the next Detroit

Excerpt from Chicago Sun Times, July 20, 2013 1:36AM:

“Is Chicago headed down the same road as Detroit?

It’s not the size of the debt, but the ability to pay it. Experts in government finance said Chicago is far better situated than Detroit. Compared with the Motor City, Chicago hasn’t suffered the population loss, it’s drawn more new employers from corporate headquarters to technology startups, its tax base is stable and it doesn’t have nearly the level of tax delinquency.

Donald Haider, a former Chicago budget director and a management professor at Northwestern University, recalled scouting Detroit for a bank acquisition years ago. “After the riots of the 1960s, there wasn’t a residential building permit issued in Detroit for 20 years,” Haider said.

Chicago has broken-down neighborhoods, but in Detroit, urban decline “was chronic and systematic and progressively downhill. We have nothing quite like that,” he said.

The differences between Chicago and Detroit emerge in three key areas that bond analysts look at:

Economic strength: The Chicago area’s economy is almost three times the size of the Detroit region’s, where the unemployment rate is nearly twice as high. “Our economy is diverse, which is our strength,” Emanuel said, “We’re not tied to the auto industry. No one sector is more than 13 percent of our employment.”

Elizabeth Foos, municipal credit analyst at Morningstar Inc., said Chicago is seeing a job rebound in areas such as banking, financial services, transportation and health care.

By some gauges, Detroit barely functions. Foos said 40 percent of the city’s streetlights don’t work and more than half of property owners didn’t pay taxes owed in 2011.

Debt levels: Chicago’s property and sales tax revenues are improving with the economy and the city’s debt load is manageable. Foos has published reports on both cities indicating that if their debts are compared to the taxable value of their property, Detroit’s burden is more than twice that of Chicago.

Population: Detroit has lost 60 percent of its population since its 1950s peak. For the first decade of the 21st century, Detroit was down 25 percent. For the same time periods, Chicago lost 25 percent and 7 percent of its population.”

There are more facts than this, but it should suffice to anyone other than those who wish to remain intentionally uninformed.


37 posted on 11/14/2013 8:06:30 PM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: Hieronymus

>> why don’t you produce some statistics showing that the apocalypse has actually begun.

Huh? Nonsense. YOU are the one who called out the author, and cast doubt on him. I am agreeing with the author presented in the OP (and his facts) and disagreeing with you. The burden is on YOU to present the countervailing statistics.

>> why don’t you produce some statistics showing that the apocalypse has actually begun.

Okay. Detroit. Or don’t you understand the meaning of “apocalypse”?


38 posted on 11/14/2013 8:06:35 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: flaglady47

>> http://www.businessinsider.com/chicago-is-not-the-next-detroit-2013%22

I’d love to follow your link and learn more, but...

Whoops...
The page you are trying to reach cannot be found.


39 posted on 11/14/2013 8:11:15 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Nervous Tick

“Detroit” is neither a statistic nor is it about Chicago.

Bowing to the all-knowing author of the article and whatever arguments he has presented is no bolstering one’s own case. I’ve brought four links to the ball-game with countervailing stats. Show that Chicago’s tax base is actually giving concrete signs of collapse. Yes, the article points to downgrades—it did before the tax base issue was raised as well.

Google is your friend if you want to do things like find out stuff or hook up with an article which has a broken link. http://www.businessinsider.com/chicago-is-not-the-next-detroit-2013-7


40 posted on 11/14/2013 8:17:52 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Hieronymus

>> is no[t] bolstering one’s own case.

I’m not making my own case! I’m agreeing with the author’s (common sense) case. What’s wrong with that exactly?

Or are you prepared to argue that unsustainable debt is actually sustainable? THAT ought to be good...

>> I’ve brought four links to the ball-game with countervailing stats.

Yes, and not particularly compelling ones. So?

>> Google is your friend

Proofreading is your friend. Lackadaisical unconcern for your blather is your enemy.


41 posted on 11/14/2013 8:23:50 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Nervous Tick

You seem to be counting a great deal on common sense and “FACTS” (meaning, so far as I can tell, that the person who wrote the article is dead on the money).

Have you been to both of these great cities? I have. That metropolitan Chicago has 275% of the Detroit metropolitan area’s GDP (from the story posted by flag-lady) doesn’t begin to tell the picture. The Detroit metropolitan area, both form what I have read and what I have seen, is a big donut—there is a worthless hole in the middle which doesn’t have much value—and that is where the city debt must be paid from. I am sure that a much higher percentage of the metropolitan area’s GDP may be found within Chicago’s city limits.


42 posted on 11/14/2013 8:27:45 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Hieronymus

>> “FACTS” (meaning, so far as I can tell, that the person who wrote the article is dead on the money).

FACTS don’t “mean” anything. Facts are, simply, facts. By definition, facts are “dead on the money”. You never refuted one single fact the author mentioned in your arguments. Nor did you employ any of the author’s facts in your own discussions. Why?

>> Have you been to both of these great cities?

Yes. Both.

>> That metropolitan Chicago has 275% of the Detroit metropolitan area’s GDP &etc

You’re going circular on me... we’ve already been here. There is no benefit whatsoever in comparing Chicago “pre-collapse” and Detroit “post-collapse”. None whatsoever.


43 posted on 11/14/2013 8:36:25 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Nervous Tick

Yes, in my typing, I left off a t—mea culpa. Very good of you to note that.

There is a big leap from “unsustainable debt” (any debt that is increasing is arguably unsustainable, which places Chicago into a category with tens of thousands of other organizations) to “NEXT.”

The author is not arguing that Chicago has an unsustainable debt, the author is arguing that Chicago is NEXT.

If you don’t think that the ratio of debt to tax base is relevant, that is your prerogative, but I happen to think that it is of some concern—and so does the author of the article, at least implicitly, as he lets NY off the hook, even though its per capita general obligation debt is worse than NY’s (in the last sentence of the article as posted)—he doesn’t say why, but the very logical reason is because NY has an even higher tax base to draw off of.


44 posted on 11/14/2013 8:36:33 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Nervous Tick

Outside of the fact that Chicago has been downgraded, the article mentions, by my count, exactly four facts involving numbers having to do with debt, only one of which compared Chicago to any other city—the one noting that Chicago is second among the 10 largest cities with regards to general obligation debt.

The qualification “second” and limiting things to “10 largest” do not seem very helpful in making the case that Chicago will be NEXT (meaning first) among ALL major cities (unless by major cities you mean only the 10 largest and can make a case that the one that Chicago is behind has some other strengths). There is no particular need to refute any facts from the article because none of the facts actually make a real good case for NEXT.


45 posted on 11/14/2013 8:44:42 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Hieronymus

>> You seem to be counting a great deal on common sense

Hieronymus, in post #33: “...the observations of someone with common sense... may be worth taking into account...”

So, which is it? Common sense is to be discounted? Or common sense is to be exalted?

Or would you prefer to choose either valuation for common sense, based on its utility to your argument at the moment? :-)


46 posted on 11/14/2013 8:46:46 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Hieronymus

>> ...any debt that is increasing is arguably unsustainable, which places Chicago into a category with tens of thousands of other organizations...

According to the author, Chicago has “... more general obligation debt per capita than any of the 10 largest U.S. cities except New York.”

Not in a category with tens of thousands... but rather, NUMBER TWO in a category with TEN.

i.e. NEXT.

Or maybe third? I’ll take next after next.


47 posted on 11/14/2013 8:51:38 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: Nervous Tick

http://www.businessinsider.com/chicago-is-not-the-next-detroit-2013%22
Whoops...
The page you are trying to reach cannot be found.”

Actually, I made it all up, statistics, the whole article. I concocted it out of whole cloth. Now here’s a piece of advice. Google it, lazy tick.


48 posted on 11/14/2013 8:59:59 PM PST by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: flaglady47

>> Google it, lazy tick.

Really? YOU screwed up and that makes ME lazy?

Who the hell do you think you are anyway? Suggestion: proofread your crap, dumbass. Typical liberal attitude.

By the way you forgot to copy your sock puppet MinuteGal on your post. I guess that’s my fault too huh.


49 posted on 11/14/2013 9:06:43 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: usconservative

State government and city government are separate entities with separate credit.


50 posted on 11/14/2013 9:13:29 PM PST by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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