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Mandate Debate: Why I Cannot Support Hobby Lobby’s “Religious Freedom” Claim
ReligiousLiberty.TV ^ | 11/27/2013 | Jason Hines

Posted on 11/28/2013 9:49:22 AM PST by ReligiousLibertyTV

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To: ReligiousLibertyTV
Bad enough that the government promotes abortion.

The actual point of the ObamaCare mandate is to force employers to pay for something which they disapprove of. And whoso pays for something, promotes that thing, willy nilly.

This is far from the least intrusive means to the putative end; the very intention of the mandate is to violate the conscience of those it constrains.

21 posted on 11/28/2013 10:18:42 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (“Liberalism” is a conspiracy against the public by wire-service journalism.)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

The “Debate” is not about contraceptives, it is about liberty! It is about stopping busy body individuals dictating how you must live your lives. How YOU must bend to their will. Or suffer the consequences. I say no! RESIST Evil!


22 posted on 11/28/2013 10:19:01 AM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

Good lord.


23 posted on 11/28/2013 10:22:13 AM PST by xjcsa (Ridiculing the ridiculous since the day I was born.)
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To: count-your-change
If the argument can be made, “Keep the government out of my bedroom”, why NOT “Keep the government out of my health insurance policy”?

The liberals, perverts, libertines all---they are saying,

"You must stay out of my bedroom, but you must be forced to pay for what I do in my bedroom, and you must pay for the means to eliminate whatever consequences occur from my bedroom activities that I don't like. . . but remember, you are not allowed to judge what takes place in my bedroom."

24 posted on 11/28/2013 10:25:24 AM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV
This whole "corporation-is-not-a-person" argument rings hollow. Corporations ARE able to promote certain values and to censure others. Look how many are jumping on the "green" bandwagon. Or how many are pro-homo. So it is not outside the corporate domain to embrace pro-life or pro-Christian values.

And the First Amendment does not limit its protection of religious liberty to persons anyway: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." That means "free exercise" by persons AND by corporations, in whatever degree a corporation can be said to practice any values.

The same people who condemn corporations as "evil" will not admit that corporations can be "good."

There is no legal reason whatsoever that a corporation cannot claim the same constitutional legal protections as an individual.

25 posted on 11/28/2013 10:27:37 AM PST by IronJack (=)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

Wrong. Obamacare requires people to pay for abortificients.

FWIW, I used to know some of the faculty at Baylor pretty well, and visited there fairly often for conferences and other reasons. I’m afraid I got the impression that Baylor is no longer a truly Christian university—especially at the top levels. It’s kind of the Notre Dame of Baptist universities.


26 posted on 11/28/2013 10:27:47 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

Hines is an idiot who doesn’t understand the difference between “choose to provides” and “must provide”.


27 posted on 11/28/2013 10:30:12 AM PST by Repulican Donkey
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

“Liberty For Me But Not For Thee”
Love the cultists in spite of their hypocrisies....


28 posted on 11/28/2013 10:32:03 AM PST by S.O.S121.500 (Case back hoe for sale or trade for diesel wood chipper....Enforce the Bill of Rights. It's the Law!)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

Well, child sacrifice is the abomination that causes desolation, so even God has a blood red line we can not cross without His judgment. He will not forgive a nation under that one circumstance.

“However, the LORD did not turn from the fierceness of His great wrath with which His anger burned against Judah, because of all the provocations with which Manasseh had provoked Him. And the LORD said, “I will remove Judah also from My sight, as I have removed Israel. And I will cast off Jerusalem, this city which I have chosen, and the temple (house) of which I said, ‘My name shall be there’.”
“Surely at the command (mouth) of the LORD it came upon Judah, to remove them from His sight because of the sins of Manasseh, according to all that he had done, and also for the innocent blood which he shed, for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; AND THE LORD WOULD NOT FORGIVE.” (All caps mine) 2 Kings 23: 26 & 27 and 24: 3 & 4


29 posted on 11/28/2013 10:37:40 AM PST by huldah1776
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

A person does not and cannot surrender or relinquish his or her fundamental human rights by choosing to become a member of or participant in a corporation. I would further contend that it is not within my power to reject or abrogate my rights, inasmuch as they are inherent to my personhood. Neither can a government abrogate those rights. Government can either acknowledge their existential reality and defend them, or it can arbitrarily and improperly declare then non-existent and of no account - - and violate them.


30 posted on 11/28/2013 10:38:09 AM PST by Elsiejay
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To: jiggyboy
If Hobby Lobby can remove contraception from employees’ health care, why can’t Jehovah’s Witnesses remove blood transfusions?

hmmmm...That's almost exactly what Slutz Inc. founder Sandra Fluke said the other day

Is this one of the new Talking Points from Obama Central?

31 posted on 11/28/2013 10:38:16 AM PST by digger48
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To: Cicero
Wrong. Obamacare requires people to pay for abortificients.

Many if not most main line Christian churches do make a distinction between birth control and abortificients. The owners of Hobby Lobby reject abortificients.

The Catholic church has a different and valid argument of their own.

As has already been pointed out though, the real argument shouldn't be about either but about freedom from government tyranny.

32 posted on 11/28/2013 10:41:34 AM PST by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

The problem is the federal gov’t should not dictate a one-size-fits-all health insurance plan.

That is the removal of choice from the citizens.


33 posted on 11/28/2013 10:42:13 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: All


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34 posted on 11/28/2013 10:43:21 AM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: All

I suspect Mr. Hines graduated at the bottom of his class.


35 posted on 11/28/2013 10:43:33 AM PST by pluvmantelo (Islam-No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.)
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To: Repulican Donkey; ReligiousLibertyTV
To: ReligiousLibertyTV

Hines is an idiot who doesn’t understand the difference between “choose to provides” and “must provide”.

I get the impression that "ReligiousLibertyTV" and "Hines" are one and the same.

Is that true ReligiousLibertyTV?

36 posted on 11/28/2013 10:45:05 AM PST by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV
What's this guy's problem? If they were providing insurance that covered birth control, it was a private decision. The govermnent demanding it? That's very different.

I'm in a different reality from the current situation. I have no idea why insurance would even cover medications or anything else that are choices which an individual makes.

37 posted on 11/28/2013 10:47:35 AM PST by grania
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV

Dear Mr. Hines,

Please review the historical saying: “Give me liberty or give me death.”

You and your leftist friends have declared war on people of conscience. It really does not matter whether you agree or disagree with contraception. The bottom line is you are starting a WAR.

Let me be clear. This is not figurative language. Obamacare is going to kill people. Not figuratively. Literally.

And there are many people who are not willing to live under tyranny and are not afraid of dying.

So you need to ask yourself, Mr. Hines, “Is your right to free contraception worth Revolution 2?”


38 posted on 11/28/2013 10:47:41 AM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV
"After all, I as a citizen do not have the free exercise right to burden other people’s healthcare."

What an asinine argument. Hobby Lobby is not "burdening" other people's health care, it is not preventing anyone from buying contraceptives. It is offering a limited BENEFIT to employees, and in a sane world and a free world, the federal government would not dictate the specific nature of those benefits. And the federal government has no "compelling interest" in dictating the specific level of benefits a company offers, the amount of co-pays, or the deductibles.
39 posted on 11/28/2013 10:52:07 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: ReligiousLibertyTV
Madison's Notes for the Bill of Rights

Madison used this outline to guide him in delivering his speech introducing the Bill of Rights into the First Congress on June 8, 1789. Madison proposed an amendment to assuage the anxieties of those who feared that religious freedom would be endangered by the unamended Constitution. According to The Congressional Register Madison, on June 8, moved that "the civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext infringed."


40 posted on 11/28/2013 10:52:09 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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