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LeDuff: A Detroit labor war is breaking out over pension funds
myfoxdetroit.com ^ | Dec 05, 2013 | Charlie LeDuff

Posted on 12/06/2013 5:25:10 AM PST by cripplecreek

Detroit's workers and retirees are no longer just fighting the emergency manager over their pensions - they're fighting each other.

Fox 2's Charlie LeDuff explains the two Detroit pension funds: one for police and fire and the other for other city employees such as secretaries and janitors (known as the General Retirement System).


City workers explain why they don't want to be lumped in the same pension category.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: bankruptcy; detroit; unions
And now the infighting begins.

Full video report at site.

1 posted on 12/06/2013 5:25:10 AM PST by cripplecreek
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To: cripplecreek

Life may be rough these days, but we do get Schadenfreude circuses to watch! Bring on the subsidized popcorn.


2 posted on 12/06/2013 5:26:34 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: cripplecreek

SOCIALISM: Works great until you run out of someone else’s money. M. Thatcher


3 posted on 12/06/2013 5:27:00 AM PST by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: Springman; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; queenkathy; madison10; ...
Unions fighting each other in Detroit now. Some unions have more money than others and now the poorer union wants a cut.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Michigan legislative action thread
4 posted on 12/06/2013 5:27:32 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

I feel bad for these folks but their position is no different than any other company that goes under. The business they chose to work for, Detroit, was poorly managed and now the results of that malfeasance is showing up.


5 posted on 12/06/2013 5:28:05 AM PST by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: ealgeone

Agreed, I don’t blame them for being angry but there’s no reason others should suffer for their own mistakes.

I am glad to see conservative ideas popping up in Detroit. The only help the democrats will ever offer is to take the money from others. Conservative ideas can give them the tools to help themselves and the whole country will be better off for it.


6 posted on 12/06/2013 5:33:12 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

Will they riot?


7 posted on 12/06/2013 5:38:38 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: ealgeone

Probably every one of them voted for the corrupt leadership of Detroit, and never demanded accountability. And they are probably among those who cheered on Coleman Young and Kwame Kilpatrick for “taking it to da man” by livin’ large. They criticized Dennis Archer for what amounted to “actin’ too white.” (Responsible). They found out too late that they were da man. I do not feel sorry for them.


8 posted on 12/06/2013 5:38:50 AM PST by FrdmLvr ("WE ARE ALL OSAMA, 0BAMA!" al-Qaeda terrorists who breached the American compound in Benghazi)
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To: cripplecreek
The answer, so crazy that it might work:

Set up an enterprise zone including the bridges to Canada, the shoreline and a nice chunk of adjacent land. Move all people out of it. Hand it over to Canada on a 99year lease. Canada would pay Detroit money that went directly to pensions and public safety. During that time, the pensioners would die off and what's left of Detroit would benefit from enterprise zone jobs going to residents.

Nobody's that bold.

9 posted on 12/06/2013 5:45:40 AM PST by grania
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To: grania

Just sell the art from the art museum.
Divide up the spoils...


10 posted on 12/06/2013 5:53:28 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: Jack Hydrazine
"Will they riot?"

How could you tell? :-)

11 posted on 12/06/2013 5:56:28 AM PST by Average Al
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To: cripplecreek

They always end up eating their own - employees should have known for sometime that the jig was up and the promises were unsustainable!


12 posted on 12/06/2013 6:03:52 AM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: Average Al

Hopefully they will cancel each other out!


13 posted on 12/06/2013 6:09:49 AM PST by gr8eman (Bandying nice with wannabe commies is over! You're either for freedom or you're not!)
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To: gr8eman

This week on Labor Union Deathmatch: SEIU vs. .... The UAW!

Who wins?

(answer: the American public)


14 posted on 12/06/2013 6:19:53 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: grania
Nobody's that bold.

In a sense that's exactly what Rand Paul is proposing as a pilot program that can be extended to other port cities and beyond. He says he wants to see them cut all business and personal taxes to 5%. Since Michigan and Detroit already allow private competition with many city services, its likely that private contractors will take over many of them.

Saginaw cut their city employees from 500 down to 20 with private contractors hiring most of the employees.
15 posted on 12/06/2013 6:24:48 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek
The thing is, I wouldn't trust Detroit with anything. Canada running the shoreline economy would keep the money out of their hands. If the money went directly from Canada to that pension obligation and to public safety it could be kept away from the corruption.

The pension problems are more manageable than they seem, if they just raise what employees pay in and lower their payout for people still working.

16 posted on 12/06/2013 6:54:37 AM PST by grania
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To: grania

You can’t constitutionally cede American territory to anyone. There was an investor who offered $1 billion for Belle Isle and turn it into a free market territory. The constitutional aspect was one argument against.

The best option is for the state to take control of it. One of the good things about Michigan (usually) is the power the state holds over the cities.

The fact is that there is a lot of economic movement in Detroit with lots of big money players involved but its the small businesses that need to be freed to do business. Detroit is the second busiest inland port on the continent only a little behind Laredo and the only reason its in the shape it is is because of the democrats.

I’ve got a Reagan attitude about it and say its time to do more than draw a line in the sand. I say we step over the line and start retaking ground.


17 posted on 12/06/2013 7:08:08 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

No doubt that the great and powerful, Baroch, will save them. Unless there is no upside.


18 posted on 12/06/2013 7:47:24 AM PST by Artie (We are surrounded by MORONS)
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To: cripplecreek

A war in Detroit?

Who could tell?


19 posted on 12/06/2013 7:48:02 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: tanknetter

“This week on Labor Union Deathmatch: SEIU vs. .... The UAW”

The SEIU is moving into Texas. There are a few jobs listed in San Antonio. I already sent them a few bogus resumes and cover letters.

We should flood them with letters.


20 posted on 12/06/2013 7:48:30 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz ("Senator Cruz basically made the Democrats fight for a whole bunch of things that they already had.")
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To: grania

Rand Paul’s speech to the Detroit economic club will be on Cspan at 12:35 today.


21 posted on 12/06/2013 7:49:02 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

Most of these people went into their publicly-funded jobs knowing full well that the retirement benefits were incredible. Something about getting their fair share... I do not shed one tear for these sorts of people.


22 posted on 12/06/2013 7:49:54 AM PST by SgtHooper (If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.)
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To: cripplecreek
Paul speaking at the opening of a new GOP office in Detroit today.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic
23 posted on 12/06/2013 8:11:11 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek
Rand Paul's speech to the Detroit economic club will be on CSpan at 12;35 today.

Thank you....I have that information in time to watch it.

24 posted on 12/06/2013 8:40:29 AM PST by grania
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To: FrdmLvr
I do not feel sorry for them.

I feel sorry for anyone facing destitution in their old age, whether public or private employee, white or black, liberal or conservative. What are they going to do? If they lose their pensions how are they going to live? Will they go on public assistance? How will they, at their age, obtain jobs which are scarce for young people? Do we just let them die? They are human beings and fellow Americans whether we like it or not.

25 posted on 12/06/2013 3:10:12 PM PST by Route797
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To: Average Al

Mmmmm...just a feeling.


26 posted on 12/06/2013 8:30:46 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: grania

open that PANDORA’S BOX and you’d have NY, LA and Chicago leased off in no time.


27 posted on 12/06/2013 10:46:07 PM PST by TomasUSMC
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To: Route797

Once Pensions are allowed to disappear, with nobody going to prison, fogetaboutit. The next step will be bank accounts and other savings.......well it really doesn’t matter though does it? If the damn government can make you buy superexpensive junk, and then fine you whatever amount they want if you don’t......that is the bottom of the barrel...the last straw......TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION .....AND IN AMERICA THAT MEANS ....THE TERRIBLE MOST HORRIBLE .....WAR.....WELL EXCEPT FOR.......War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)


28 posted on 12/06/2013 11:05:22 PM PST by TomasUSMC
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To: cripplecreek; All

Thanks for the ping; posts.

Rand Paul speaks at opening Republican Party office in Detroit: Sen. Rand Paul speaks at the opening of the Detroit office of the Michigan Republican Party in Detroit on Friday, Dec. 6, 2013. Mandi Wright/Detroit Free Press

http://www.freep.com/article/20131206/NEWS06/312060079/Rand-Paul-Detroit-economic-club-presidential-hopeful


29 posted on 12/07/2013 6:55:55 AM PST by PGalt
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To: PGalt

I like the economic idea as a means of proving conservative theory to the masses. The voting rights stuff was kind of pointless in Michigan because voting rights are restored as long as you aren’t in prison, on parole or probation. Plus its an issue for the individual states to decide. I agree that mandatory sentencing needs to go.

While I’m not a fan of drug legalization he did make a point I hadn’t thought about. He made the point that more blacks are arrested for simple possession not because of racism but because they’re easy targets. Whites are more likely to pay for a decent attorney while blacks use public defenders if they use a lawyer at all and that’s like asking to go to jail. Police know this and they go where the hunting is easiest.


30 posted on 12/07/2013 7:32:43 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Route797
They are human beings and fellow Americans whether we like it or not.

Exactly.

While not wanting to pay for them is a legitimate complaint, the rabid hate is about as far from principled conservatism as one can get.

My inspiration to try to find good conservative free market ways to help actually echoed from Detroit.

Ronald Reagan 1980 Republican National Convention Acceptance Address delivered 17 July 1980, Detroit, MI

The American people -- The American people the most generous on earth, who created the highest standard of living, are not going to accept the notion that we can only make a better world for others by moving backward ourselves. And those who believe we can have no business leading this nation.

I will not stand by and watch this great country destroy itself under mediocre leadership that drifts from one crisis to the next, eroding our national will and purpose. We have come together here because the American people deserve better from those to whom they entrust our nation's highest offices, and we stand united -- we stand united in our resolve to do something about it.

31 posted on 12/07/2013 10:10:40 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: grania
Set up an enterprise zone including the bridges to Canada, the shoreline and a nice chunk of adjacent land.

Yeah, it's funny how the only thing you ever have to do to restore prosperity to a given area is make government go away. Detroit's collapse is no more unintentional that Stalin's famines in the Ukraine - and it was accomplished by the same type of people with the same type of motivations.

32 posted on 12/07/2013 10:14:40 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: cripplecreek; All
City workers explain why they don't want to be lumped in the same pension category.

No, it began a long time before Chapter 9 as many effected knew it was coming.

My fire fighter gnome who is no longer on the force over a year and a 1/2 ago noted that they didn't want to merge w/ the police or the general and these two think they are way less underfunded than the general fund.

I am waiting for data on these three as to how funded or underfunded they are.

CrippleCreek are those numbers out yet? I remember some rumblings about this that it is being look @ with a microscope type level, possibly looking for malfeasance?

33 posted on 12/07/2013 2:46:38 PM PST by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks....)
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To: cripplecreek; All
There was an investor who offered $1 billion for Belle Isle and turn it into a free market territory. The constitutional aspect was one argument against.

Should they have called it Reagan Isle, or Galt fLand?

Dang shame it didn't happen, look at the proposal sketch...

It would have been a giant up-yours to those in power moving us down the road of fundamental transformation....


34 posted on 12/07/2013 2:52:52 PM PST by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks....)
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To: cripplecreek

If you have Netflix or other streaming video service see this great 2012 documentary about firefighters in Detroit and how this is a look at the future of many big cities today run into the ground by thieving Democrat politicians.

Storyline

A documentary about Detroit told through the eyes of firefighters charged with the thankless task of saving a city that many have written off as dead.

One Year on the Front Lines of the Battle to Save Detroit

“BURN”
Documentary

BURN - Official Theatrical Trailer (2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioiMZvMdvas

TRAILER

http://www.youtube.com/user/detroitfirefilm

Detroit on Fire- a documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDoUpXNmcZA


35 posted on 12/09/2013 8:06:41 AM PST by KeyLargo
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