Why Play Cold War Games in Ukraine?

Copyright 2014 Creators.com The American Conservative ^ | February 21, 2014, 12:00 AM | Patrick J. Buchanan

[LowTaxesEqualsProsperity]

Pat is right once again.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Only one reason I can possibly think of...

Putin wants and needs a resurgent Russia. People like him never stop with one country.

For good or bad, I believe the US will be forced into supplying arms to those in opposition to Russia. Today’s WSJ has a very good editorial about Russia’s actions behind the scenes to control Ukraine.

[Samogon]

Gross misinterpretation of events and undercurrents in Ukraine. It is surely not black-and-white, Pat Buchanan is correct here, but the rest is pure speculation. Almost every dictator in history had some legitimacy, which never prevented them from committing heinous crimes. People of Ukraine rebelled against institutionalized corruption becoming norm just like in neighboring Russia. The only reason this revolution was not drowned in blood, is that mobsters in power sensed the magnitude of popular resentment and were trying to preserve their hides.

[Freelance Warrior]

but the rest is pure speculation. Almost every dictator in history had some legitimacy

Buchanan has written some specific facts about the Ukrainian president's actions. They're not at all dictatorial, so Yanukovich is not a dictator. If he has lied you can denounce them one by one.

[DManA]

Yanukovych won the presidency of Ukraine in 2010 in what international observers called a free and fair election.

Based on the lie that he would pursue closer ties to the West. Once elected he did a 180.

Not to mention that Yanukovych is utterly and totally corrupt.

[cripplecreek]

It doesn’t smell organic to me. It looks too much like the uprising to drive Mubarak out in Egypt where we found that the hard left was heavily involved in it. Too much willing social media participation.

Oddly enough, the uprising of a known increasingly hardline marxist government in Venezuela is getting very little attention.

The only thing I can say for sure is that there isn’t a whole lot we can do about any of it right now because we have a government run by incompetent morons who care only about themselves.

[wolf78]

Pat is right once again.

With all due respect, no, he really isn't.

Second, high among the reasons Yanukovych chose Russia’s offer to join its custom union over the EU is that Putin put a better deal on the table.

Wrong. To quote Kostiantyn Yelisieiev: "Accession to the Customs Union may grant Ukraine only short-term dividends: a few billion dollars, about which Moscow says, are just a payment in exchange for the loss of sovereignty of Ukraine in the context of its own trade policy and rejection of integration into the EU.

However, the Association Agreement with the EU provides explicit legal and political guarantees of sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of the Ukrainian state.

[...] The accession to the Customs Union will reduce the welfare of Ukraine by 0.5% in the medium term and by 3.7% in the long term, while the DCFTA with the EU will increase this indicator by 4.3% in the medium term and by 11.8% in the long term.

As for the “protesters” who came to Maidan Square in November, not all came simply to protest. Many set up tents and shacks, threw up barricades, seized government buildings, burned the headquarters of the ruling party, battled police and demanded the overthrow of the regime.

So that's why they protested peacefully for months?

How many Western countries would permit a planned putsch in their capital city?

How many western countries would permit their president selling them out into serfdom? Would the US accept if Obama behaved like Yanukovich?

Yanukovych then had parliament repeal the tough laws against protests he had had enacted... What kind of democracy is it where a democratically elected president can be forced out of office by mobs?

Hitler was democratically elected and then did away with democracy bit by bit. Yanukovych tried the same, but failed with his version of the Reichstag Fire Decree. Repealing them was merely realizing that his attempt had failed, but not cause for applause.

But, to be candid, what happens in Ukraine has always been more critical to Moscow than it has ever been to us.
Only if one doesn't care about western values like liberty.

In conclusion: Buchanan might be right that the US certainly shouldn't sent troops to Kiev. But standing for something instead of appeasing Putin isn't wrong.

[ZULU]

But how would Obama react if thousands of Tea Party members established an encampment on the Mall, burned down the DNC, occupied the Capitol and demanded he either repeal Obamacare or resign?

Would Barack Obama negotiate?

Interesting analogy there from the Media.

The only way we should get involved is to offer to mediate between the Ukrainian protestors, their government and Putin.

Its a complex situation there. The Ukrainians - most of them - hate the Russians. There is a large minority of Ukrainians however who are ethnic Russians and want Anschloss with Mother Russia. Don’t know where the President falls in this situation, but Putin apparenly made him a good offer.

What WE should be asking (but it would NEVER happen under THIS administration) is WHY the hell we should do ANYTHING to help the EU when they are a collection of pro-homosexual, pro-Muslim, anti-American, left-wing degenerate socialist states.

As a matter of fact, maybe the Ukrainians should get over their anger at the Russians and ask themselves the SAME question.

Right now, I would be more than willing to swap Obama for Putin.

[DJ MacWoW]

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[Navy Patriot]

In short, the reality in Kiev is more complex than the black-and-white cartoon of Vladimir Putin vs. the freedom fighters drawn by our resident Russophobic elite.

Pat has been reading FR.

He is dead on right on this one.

[wolf78]

Based on the lie that he would pursue closer ties to the West. Once elected he did a 180.

Correct. Last year I saw some footage of members of his OWN party planning a celebration for the day of the EU-Ukraine deal, with a blue and yellow flag theme (the colours of both Ukraine and the European Union):



A few days later these young party activists were stunned and disappointed with the sudden reversal.

Not to mention that Yanukovych is utterly and totally corrupt.

To quote the Kyiv Post: "Ukraine is in the midst of a financial as well as a political crisis, one that is essentially caused by embezzlement from the Ukrainian state by its rulers to the tune of $8 billion to $10 billion a year.". The level of corruption is mind-blowing.

[swamprebel]

Dear Pat, shall we allow democratically elected governments to call out military snipers to shoot into crowds of their own people? What new form of democracy will we usher in, where governments can use their countries military to kill it’s own citizens in the streets for having an opposing view? How does the “Arena of Ideas” and debate, survive if governments can simply kill those who dare to debate? Could this new form of governing creep onto the shores of America?

The world is on fire, and it may not be a fire we started, but we advance the cause of “Dictatorships” if we turn and walk away.

[FReepaholic]

...Yanukovich is not a dictator...

Yeah, he sounds like a real nice guy.

Ukraine slides into full-blown dictatorship with brutal new law

[DManA]

Buchanan can be such a bone head.

[cunning_fish]

The reality is Yanukovitz a toast. People who organized or took advantage of these riots (if they were really spontaneous which I doubt) knew full well that they can’t beat him in fair elections. He handled this situation really awful making them a favour.

[Jedidah]

Thanks for a good post.

The issue, despite news reports, really isn’t about a trade agreement with EU vs. Russia. That was just the final straw, so to speak.

The issue is about a rigged election and a corrupt leadership that has broken faith with a young nation that craves democracy and freedom.

An electoral process once rigged can be repeated, especially since Yanukovych and his cronies stay in power in the meantime. Yanukovych needs to go.

[usmcobra]

I wonder which side Pat will be on when it happens here?

[familyop]

Fascist/commie spinning. Why did the Czechs play Cold War games in Czechoslovakia? Why did the Poles play Cold War games in Poland?

[pluvmantelo]

In an amusing irony Pat now stands shoulder to shoulder with Prof Stephen Cohen with whom he used to tangle on Crossfire. Thirty years ago Cohen was a ubiquitous presence on CNN defending all things Soviet and is nowadays a Putin apologist. Strange bedfellows, indeed.
Btw, the Mario Savio reference is funny. Who the heck under 40 knows who Savio was?