Posted on 06/17/2014 10:09:56 AM PDT by detective
ISIS in Iraq is a redo of the disastrous U.S. foreign policy that trained and supported the Taliban and Al Queda in Afghanistan in the 1980s. The idiotic and ignorant and/or treasonous CIA & State Department apparatus, egged on by so-called “friends” of the U.S. in the Middle East has ignorantly fumbled into supporting local agendas NOT in the U.S. long term interest, in the name of some temporary objective of the U.S. at a moment in time - “opposing” the Soviets/Assad, for instance.
It is NEVER true that every enemy of an opponent of ours is our friend or even worthy of our support. “Allies of convenience” should always be suspect and should be avoided particularly when no direct U.S. national interest is involved.
For which “friends” did we side with the Taliban and Al Queda in Afghanistan in the 1980s (who supplied more of the funds than we did)? Answer: The Saudis and some of the Gulf states. Ditto the “opposition to Assad” agenda.
In both cases it was Islamic and Islamist Sunni Muslim interests working on their own fundamentalist Sunni Islamist supremacy agenda vis-a-vis Shia Muslims.
BBC red banner: Maliki fires senior officers.
There is the CBS article you were shown, as well as other articles, detailing that the U.S. was arming and training Islamic radicals in Jordan. There are statements by Jordanian officials that ISIS members were among those trained. That is not zero proof.
You have provided no explanation regarding where ISIS received their training and their U.S. made weapons, and other material.
There is nothing more to say.
You disagree with the article. I get that.
That report is CYA bull crap. No one on this earth is too extreme for Al Qeada. The only reason Al Qeada would have kicked them out, is if they discovered they were a state run organization and they were being run by the wrong states.
The CBS article specifically says secular rebels.
There are statements by Jordanian officials that ISIS members were among those trained.
Yet they remain conveniently anonymous.
You have provided no explanation regarding where ISIS received their training
First, I don't see a whole lot of training.
Second, Al-Qaeda and other groups do plenty of their own training, as do other powers' secret services like Turkey and Russia, to name two.
their U.S. made weapons, and other material
The weapons they have seem to be a combination of old Russian arms and confiscated US arms left behind by Iraqi deserters.
There is nothing more to say.
From your perspective I can see why.
This is very flimsy reasoning.
You disagree with the article. I get that.
I don't "disagree" with it - you disagree with opinions.
I am calling out the article for assuming facts not in evidence.
The Taliban didn’t exist until 1995-six years after the Soviet withdrawal. And they were a creation of Pakistan.
>The only reason Al Qeada would have kicked them out, is if they discovered they were a state run organization and they were being run by the wrong states.
Or if ISIS wanted more power for themselves than what Al Qaeda was willing to give.
What does that mean, that they were asked to check a box swearing that they are not affiliated with extremist groups?
Just like with Obamacare, just check a box that you are eligible and not an illegal?
-PJ
U.S.: Syrian rebel group tied to al Qaeda in Iraq
WASHINGTON The Obama administration is declaring a Syrian rebel group with alleged ties to al Qaeda as a terrorist organization. It's an effort to blunt the influence of extremists as the U.S. steps up cooperation with the Syrian opposition.
The State Department's action blocks Jabhat al-Nusra's assets in the U.S. and bars Americans from doing business with the group.
The move hasn't been announced officially but was included in the Federal Register on Monday. The department said the group was part of al Qaeda in Iraq.
ISIS was Al Qaeda in Iraq. Who kicked them out ? Al Nusra ? This is the old Al Nusra/ISIS break away play they used in late 2012/2013. Pulled out of the closet and renewed for prime time.
U.S. Places Militant Syrian Rebel Group on List of Terrorist Organizations
....The notice in the register lists the Al Nusra front as one of the “aliases” of Al Qaeda in Iraq.
The Al Nusra Front comprises only a small minority of the Syrian rebels, but it includes some of the rebellion’s most battle-hardened and effective fighters.
The question is whether the US trained their members.
There is, as yet, zero evidence of that.
This claim is patterned after the same tired narrative that erroneously states that the US "trained" or "funded" Osama bin Laden.
Profile: Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS)
ISIS was formed in April 2013 and grew out of al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI). It has since been disavowed by al-Qaeda, but become one of the main jihadist groups fighting government forces in Syria and is making military gains in Iraq.
The Iranians have documented evidence that ISIS has arms supplied by the GCC. Obama’s but boys.
Obama basically admitted he was funding terrorist in Syria when he himself had to declare one of the groups as a terrorist organization. Training is immaterial to money and arms. With money you can buy training for the arms.
Obama got sandbagged BIGTIME by the Syrian rebels. Obama gave them arms, money and training. They asked for more and more...and they got it. They stockpiled the arms and held back the best fighters, so they could knock down a berm and invade Iraq.
This all is NOT a story because, besides Obama, another progressive media darling named John McCain is fully complicit. The left wing media won’t criticize Obama; and, right wing media won’t criticize McCain.
Giant farse is what we’re watching.
Now you are just playing games with words.
You have provided no evidence whatsoever.
You have made one incredulous assumption after another.
First, you assume every fighter the Obama Administration trained was a “secularist” whatever that is supposed to mean.
You assume all of the fighters trained were 100% honest and virtuous and would never lie to the U.S. officials giving them arms, training and whatever else.
You assume anyone who says ISIS was trained and armed in Jordan is automatically lying.
This is just a waste of my time.
We just have to agree to disagree.
eventually they’ll get there too . .
Again, just because some of the Syrian opposition groups are terrorist organizations does not mean that all of are, or than any of the individuals we trained are.
I am the only one who isn't.
Here is the word game - the logical fallacy - most of the reasoning here is based on:
America trained some Syrian rebels.
Some Syrian rebels are Islamic terorists.
Therefore, the US trained Islamic terrorists.
This is a basic logical mistake.
You have provided no evidence whatsoever.
I have no obligation to provide evidence. The article is claiming that it is a fact that the US trained ISIL.
It is their burden to prove it, yet they have provided no evidence.
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