Posted on 07/18/2014 9:42:50 PM PDT by nickcarraway
A CAREFUL listener to President Obama’s comments Friday on the destruction of a Malaysian airliner over Ukraine could discern where the president places responsibility for what he rightly called “an outrage of unspeakable proportions.”
Mr. Obama said the United States was confident that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile launched from an area controlled by Ukrainian separatists. He also said that the insurgents can’t shoot down planes “without sophisticated equipment and sophisticated training, and that is coming from Russia.”
What was missing from the president’s comments was a clear moral conclusion about the regime of Vladimir Putin or an articulation of how the United States will respond to the killing of 298 innocent people, other than by “investigating exactly what happened and putting forward the facts.” An atrocity committed as a byproduct of Moscow’s attempt to violently break apart a sovereign nation demands a firmer response.
It’s true that not all the facts are known — for example, whether Russian personnel had a direct role in manning the SA-11 surface-to-air missile system that U.S. officials say “likely” downed the plane.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
~So you like Putin’s ideology and you’re willing to put up with his geo-politics to achieve the ends you desire? Is that what your point is? What is it about the rise of Putin’s power that you approve of?~
There is more freedom in Russia under Putin and more opportunities. It was basically a failed state before him.
Other things about him I don’t like.
~I believe Putin’s done more to bring ISIL control of parts of Syria and Iran into existence than any other world leader aside from Assad and al Maliki.~
I’d like to learn your perspective if you say so.
I am commenting without the benefit of detailed intel reports, but my guess is that Putin has miscalculated by giving these pro-Russian forces weapons that were meant to create problems for the Ukraine and not for civil aviation.
He is probably chewing out the idiots who did this right now over a secure phone line, or one that he thinks is secure anyway. Some boffins at NSA are probably attentively transcribing it now. Then Obama can bungle the situation later.
Putin’s support to Assad assured that no peaceful transition was possible during the early days of protests against Assad’s tyranny. Gradually, Assad used terror tactics (sharp shooters shooting from roofs at peaceful demonstrators (like Putin’s picked president Viktor Yanukovych did in imitation in Kiev) to marginalize the mostly peaceful and democratic opposition. Putin and Assad pursued a scorched earth policy demonizing all who opposed them as al Qaeda (sounds familiar to Ukraine. 2% of the Ukrainians voted for the fascists, yet Putin’s propaganda wing still claims all of the Ukrainians opposed to Putin’s takeover are Nazis). Into the chaos of Assad and Putin’s special brew in Syria, the real Islamist demons, al Qaeda, stepped with the same uncompromising mindset. Despite Assad’s long history of supporting al Qaeda, especially when they were killing Americans in Iraq, al Qaeda turned on Assad. Assad’s lust for power for his own personal ends, like Putin’s own lust, could not do what was best for Syria and assure a smoothed transition away from socialist/monarchy. Putin made that intransigence possible and he too is a president for life type. Putin is never going to permit civil, democratic government because he’s opposed to that form of life. Both Putin and Assad prefer to fight al Qaeda than to support free people. I believe in fighting al Qaeda and supporting the rule of law, civil government, a free press, freedom of religion (not Putin-approved Ultra Orthodox priests being paid to puppet the Putin line), private ownership of property (not crony capitalism), and a freedom that allows multi-party democracy.
~Putin’s support to Assad assured that no peaceful transition was possible during the early days of protests against Assad’s tyranny.~
Peaceful transition to whom?
An Obama supporter. That explains a lot. Your hero did a great job in Libya, Egypt, Syria and Iraq. All out of his control now. In fact Egypt wants Obama and Hillary arrested.
You appear to think everyone opposed to Assad is al Qaeda. That’s the same logic Putin uses in Ukraine. The bulk of the Ukrainians are not fascist. Back when there was a peaceful opposition in Syria it was not an al Qaeda operation. Only Assad and Putin would have characterized it that way.
~You appear to think everyone opposed to Assad is al Qaeda.~
No. You got it all wrong. Assad has plenty of opposition, but only al-Qaeda is any relevant as far as the rest aren’t determined enough to have an upper hand.
~That’s the same logic Putin uses in Ukraine. The bulk of the Ukrainians are not fascist.~
Of course, most of Ukrainians aren’t fascists and it is true that not everyone in the east of Ukraine are commies.
The problem is Ukraine is even in worse state than Russia in terms of civil society.
For that reason they are fascist who are the most visible. And before Poroshenko was elected their interim government was dominated by fascists.
You have to give new government credit, they have managed to eradicate some of the worst, but Poroshenko is still a slave of the Maidan crowd and he has jumped an anti-Russian wagon though Putin was ready to de-escalate.
~Back when there was a peaceful opposition in Syria it was not an al Qaeda operation. Only Assad and Putin would have characterized it that way.~
See my point one. No said societies have an idea of social consensus you got used to. You are thinking they are same as fellow Americans and your idealism is so romantic but it is too far from reality on the ground.
I have not seen anything like that. Don’t really expect to.
Yes Putin has his supporters including a Russian that signed up here to promote him, and there are defenders of Putin over this civilian airliner being shot down.
Reagan is rolling in his grave.
Well no one thought the Germans and Japanese would ever become democratic either.
~Well no one thought the Germans and Japanese would ever become democratic either.~
Well, German tradition of representative small government dates back to thousand years ago and the Japanese are famous for rationalism and adopting successful models from someone else.
I still maintain that the path for democracy in either country was not inevitable and not one most people would have thought likely in 1940.
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