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(NEED HELP!) Advice needed from the FR Banglist/Lawyer Community
Vanity

Posted on 07/19/2014 3:57:42 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA

Several years ago, we had a burglary and guns were stolen from our house. About a year ago, one of them turned up on a thug, who was reaching for it in his waistband and subsequently was tasered by the police before he was able to use it one them. In the end, the gun helped to put him away, but even with priors (including a shooting about 10 years back) he only received a sentence of 3 ½ to 7 years from our pathetic “justice” system.

Fast forward to the present. I was informed that I could get my gun (property) back one month after he was sentenced just in case he appealed the case. A month went by from the time he was sentenced, and I tried to get the gun. No help from the DA’s office or the police. In fact, I was informed by the police that before I would get my gun back, they were going to do a background check on ME! On the owner of the gun!!!!! WTF kind of system is this?

So I have been waiting now for approximately two months over the time when I was told I could get the gun back. He was sentenced in April, so I was told I could get the gun back June 1st. Apparently the officer who was involved in the case has to sign something to release the gun (not even sure why that should be required), but now that officer and the police are being sued by this thug and so the gun is not being released by their attorney (the attorney for the city)! It is my understanding that only the criminal case is what matters; whether the officer or the police are being sued in a civil case should have no bearing on the release of my gun.

Who should I contact to expedite this? I have sent too many emails and phone calls as it is. I am fed up. It is my property and they should not be able to keep it past the time they are supposed to. My local legislator is worthless as he is antigun and only got into office because he was unopposed.

If anyone has a contact number of someone at the NRA who could help, please Freepmail me, or if there are any attorneys with any ideas please let me know.

In my opinion, if you do not get your property back within one week of the time you should, there should be monetary penalties to those throwing up roadblocks. Luckily for me, it is not my only gun. Bu if that was all I could afford, these people would be leaving my family at the mercy of the vermin walking the streets. I cannot describe how I feel about the people involved in this process.

This is simply a criminal system.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: attorney; banglist; crime; guns; justicesystem; lawyerhelp; legaladvice; pa; vanity
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To: Red in Blue PA

Ditto on Post #10. I could not discern however, if your “contacts” with the PD/DA were via phone or face to face? Try face to face first. This lets the cops know you are not a drug-adled whack-job. Also, they know you are serious about getting your property back. If no results? #10...


51 posted on 07/19/2014 4:59:09 PM PDT by donozark (The voices inside my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!)
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To: Red in Blue PA

You don’t want to hire a lawyer but you want someone to resolve this for you. OK then keep bugging them. You can see from the comments here that the system often doesn’t return the firearm, or it takes a long time. You’d like the cops to pay a fine for your delay. Ok.


52 posted on 07/19/2014 5:02:33 PM PDT by Williams
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To: Red in Blue PA

Just in case I wasn’t clear, you need to find your state’s statute that obligates the state to return the gun to you, which will require signing-off from FR and doing a little research in your state’s criminal code; and then set the matter for a hearing, while filing a petition, probably using the criminal cause number.
The persecutor may call you and ask you to come get it, just to get the matter off his docket, unless the gun is needed for the dirtbag’s appeal.

But from what I’ve seen here, you should either hire a lawyer or kiss it goodbye.
Do it or get off the pot, in other words.


53 posted on 07/19/2014 5:03:54 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: Williams
or it takes a long time.

How long should I be expected to wait?

I was told I would get the gun back 1 month after sentencing. In 2 weeks, it will be two months after that point.

How long should I be expected to wait?
54 posted on 07/19/2014 5:05:58 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: tumblindice
you need to find your state’s statute that obligates the state to return the gun to you

The DA's office made it clear that I could get my gun back ONE MONTH after sentencing.

From the horse's mouth.
55 posted on 07/19/2014 5:09:34 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

File a pro se civil action in State Superior court. They’ll cough up your pistol real quick.


56 posted on 07/19/2014 5:09:41 PM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Police can be quite dishonest. When I was a student at Troy University back around 1971, I applied at the Sheriff’s office for a concealed carry permit.

The head of the local sportsman club had told me to apply and said the Sheriff had agreed to start issuing them after being told they would get him defeated if he kept not approving them.

Every time I would go in, the chief deputy would check and tell me that my investigation had not come back yet. After a couple of months of this and my not suspecting anything, I happened to go by when the Sheriff’s wife was handling the desk. She went and checked and immediately wrote me a permit.

It took a couple of months for me to figure out that deputy was simply lying to me. I didn’t know it for certain but in my mind I am.


57 posted on 07/19/2014 5:15:34 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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FReepers! Let's go!
Every donation counts!



58 posted on 07/19/2014 5:19:05 PM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: yarddog

Know a woman in the area who had a domestic violence issue. Husband left...Permanently. Police took the guns out of the house.

Never returned them. She went all the way up the chain. buck was passed and finally they said there were no guns. About 5K worth.


59 posted on 07/19/2014 5:22:37 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Leftist totalitarian fascism is on the move.)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Seriously. Is this FR or is it DU?

I like mosin nagants. I assure you I have never anguished that maybe someone got a bayonet to the gut, or shot with one.

I think FR's gates have been breached by Friends of Mayor Bloomberg, and who knows what other kind of strange beings.

60 posted on 07/19/2014 5:23:32 PM PDT by sockmonkey (Of course I didn't read the article. After all, this is Free Republic.)
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To: sockmonkey
I think FR's gates have been breached by Friends of Mayor Bloomberg, and who knows what other kind of strange beings.

Indeed they have. I am shocked at some of the responses here.
61 posted on 07/19/2014 5:24:29 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

You are surprised government is not efficient?


62 posted on 07/19/2014 5:25:11 PM PDT by Williams
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To: Chickensoup

Some cops are fine people but the profession does seem to attract more than their share of control freaks. They have the power and don’t want to let any of the peons encroach on it.


63 posted on 07/19/2014 5:28:09 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Williams

No, but I am surprised when people at this site make excuses for them.


64 posted on 07/19/2014 5:31:07 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I woman here had the same problem. Cops had her gun, kept putting her off, wouldn’t give it back, wouldn’t talk to her on the phone. She got it back when she got one of those investigative reporters involved.


65 posted on 07/19/2014 5:31:15 PM PDT by thorvaldr
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To: Red in Blue PA
Man, it's hard to believe some of those replies.

All you asked for was advice on solving a problem.

66 posted on 07/19/2014 5:31:34 PM PDT by kiryandil (making the jests that some FReepers aren't allowed to...)
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To: FreedomStar3028
Why wasn’t the gun locked up, by the way?

Of what use is a locked up gun?

It will only get you killed.

67 posted on 07/19/2014 5:41:45 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

Someone who gets it. Finally!


68 posted on 07/19/2014 5:47:34 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Hi Red,

We live in Oregon. A Gun was stolen from our Chevy Blazer a few years back. We gave them all the info they needed about the gun serial # and all. We didn't know it had been found and the thief was sent to prison. 3 years later we received a call from the police. They gave us gun, ammo and the holster. Hope your situation turns out as well.

69 posted on 07/19/2014 5:54:44 PM PDT by ConfidentConservative (If my people shall humble themselves and pray,I will hear from Heaven and heal their land.)
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To: ConfidentConservative

Thanks. I think it will. The officer said he wanted to get my gun back to me, but now with the civil lawsuit, the city’s attorney (located in Philly) must sign off on it and God knows how long that will take.

IMO, there should be a mandatory time period to get possession back to their owners. I fell like I have been victimized twice.


70 posted on 07/19/2014 6:05:37 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

The time to get it back is highly uncertain. I would guess that some cops want you to get it back and others don’t. It may help to go to the top (politely) and see if the Chief/Sheriff can make it happen, or to go to the bottom of the chain of command several times to see if you can find someone helpful. These things take time, often months or a year or two longer than expected. Good luck!


71 posted on 07/19/2014 6:09:20 PM PDT by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

If it is city PD contact your city council person. County your county rep.


72 posted on 07/19/2014 6:09:54 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Red in Blue PA

It’s likely in some {badges} private collection.


73 posted on 07/19/2014 6:13:35 PM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: Red in Blue PA

I got my Brother’s revolver less than a year after he used it to end his life. When the incident occurred, I received a card from the top guy in the Denver PD investigation team saying to call him if there’s any issues. They ended up calling me early and I picked it up that week.

Granted, that wasn’t a crime. However, theft is.
Go to the station and get written statements from everyone you can giving a reason why they have your property.
Then go in again the next week.
Then the following week.
Ride their butts.

This is theft.

Best of luck, FRiend.


74 posted on 07/19/2014 6:14:08 PM PDT by RandallFlagg (Uninstall Fascist Firefox. Get Pale Moon.)
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To: RandallFlagg

I understand where you are coming from but I work full-time (long hours) and then am going for my MBA at nights. I would love to be a PITA to these people, but realistically, that is not an option right now.


75 posted on 07/19/2014 6:21:49 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: RandallFlagg

And sorry to hear about your brother. I typed that post fast and left that out by mistake.


76 posted on 07/19/2014 6:22:28 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

You do not want that gun back. The serial number of that gun will forever be in numerous databases, and will never be “cleared”.


77 posted on 07/19/2014 6:41:38 PM PDT by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: caver

So what?


78 posted on 07/19/2014 6:54:31 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

The cops are often reluctant to return guns if they happen to be against guns in the hands of citizens. I would go to your town committee man or mayor and ask them to press the police chief on your behalf.


79 posted on 07/19/2014 7:31:42 PM PDT by Williams
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To: FreedomStar3028
If this is the way you are treating the police who won’t give your gun back, I can see why they are jerking you around.

I was thinking the same thing. Now I suppose we'll both get yelled at.

80 posted on 07/19/2014 7:35:47 PM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I holding this lantern? I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

You see I support the result you want, but when you rule out an attorney and even rule out being a PITA as your own advocate, who realistically do you expect to do this for you? You would like someone at the NRA etc to do it and I hope they do. But this problem of cops seizing guns and not returning them is widespread add you see from the comments here. In Philadelphia they seize lawful guns from anyone they stop, knowing it is too expensive to fight to get them back. So you either have to be your own advocate sometimes or good luck.


81 posted on 07/19/2014 7:38:22 PM PDT by Williams
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To: Red in Blue PA; FreedomStar3028
Someone who gets it. Finally!

Yes, some days it seems that the entire rest of the world has bought in to the Liberal arguments.

82 posted on 07/19/2014 7:47:29 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: cva66snipe

I lost a Ruger Security Six Stainless with a 6 inch barrel to that in the 70s.


83 posted on 07/19/2014 8:00:34 PM PDT by sport
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To: Red in Blue PA

Seems like you might need these links.

This provides a good sample form and instructions for filing a motion to return in Philadelphia under rule 588.
http://www.courts.phila.gov/pdf/forms/criminal/01-206-Return-of-Property.pdf

This is Rule 588.
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/234/chapter5/s588.html

And this is from the Victim’s Right Statute.
http://law.lclark.edu/live/files/4976-pennsylvania
(g) Return of property. The appropriate law enforcement agency shall return to the victim property
seized as evidence if the prosecutor’s office determines that the evidence is no longer needed for
prosecution.
(fn 1: 18 P.S. § 11.201)

It’s possible that they will try to hang on to the gun until forced to return it.


84 posted on 07/19/2014 9:26:52 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Then you can afford to buy a new gun, that is not tainted.

For your own good, you shouldn’t obsess over this one.

This gun was used in commission of a crime and for the cost, that you yourself pointed out, it’s not worth the effort, not to mention any other trouble you may end up having.

Most people here are giving you good advice.

Let it go, buy another gun and move on, focus on your job and MBA courses.

This is not a question about your being right, which you are, this is about practicality and accepting reality that you can’t always get your way.

“God give me the courage to change the things I can, the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, and the WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.”


85 posted on 07/19/2014 9:31:14 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Innovative

I didn’t seek your opinion on gums. If you think any gun is “tainted” then you have psychological issues. No joke.

Seek help.


86 posted on 07/20/2014 3:06:04 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Valpal1

Thank you for the links. One would think the victims advocates office would have sent me something similar in their letter,


87 posted on 07/20/2014 3:07:46 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA
I asked for advice on getting it back, not inane statements that all is lost. People get guns back every day. Why is mine going to disappear in the ether?

Most of us haven't any experience with having our weapons stolen and recovered in the commission of a crime. There are enough stories out there that folks tend to go with and/or embellish them - much like they do about hearing rumors about Palin or Cruz.

From your tale of woe, it may be that they think there is possible relevance of the gun as evidence which may be used in the suit against them - weak, but who knows? It could also be a conspiracy as some will tell you - the DA hates all guns and will go IRS to ensure you won't get it back.

So many States and separate cities and counties among them that nobody can give you a good answer without prior experience in same location.

Since the worth is low enough that you won't hire an attorney, the old adage, "Beggars can't be choosers" may apply - you are getting what you paid for as far as the "legal advice" goes. You tried, it failed, get over it without castigating those who offered their opinions.

Hope it works out and you get your old friend back in the personal arsenal.

88 posted on 07/20/2014 3:42:52 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: trebb

FWIW, the city holding the gun recently paid out $22,000 for infringing on the rights of someone who open carried. Doubt they want to go down that path again.


89 posted on 07/20/2014 4:29:23 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA
FWIW, the city holding the gun recently paid out $22,000 for infringing on the rights of someone who open carried. Doubt they want to go down that path again.

Hope that helps you. $22K isn't generally a lot for a city and nothing to those who know the "city" will have to pay for their malfeasance...the citizens pay the fine via taxes.

90 posted on 07/20/2014 4:56:47 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: trebb; Red in Blue PA

‘Since the worth is low enough that you won’t hire an attorney, the old adage, “Beggars can’t be choosers” may apply - you are getting what you paid for as far as the “legal advice” goes. You tried, it failed, get over it without castigating those who offered their opinions.”

Well said.


91 posted on 07/20/2014 5:27:33 AM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Red in Blue PA; Valpal1
From Valpal1's "Return of property. The appropriate law enforcement agency shall return to the victim property seized as evidence if the prosecutor’s office determines that the evidence is no longer needed for prosecution."

You said " the police are being sued by this thug and so the gun is not being released by their attorney "

There is your answer -- you should be glad that your gun helped put away a criminal and go on with your life.

92 posted on 07/20/2014 5:32:58 AM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: trebb

This city is on life support so 22k is quite a sum when you do not have it.


93 posted on 07/20/2014 5:39:10 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Innovative

Re:  you should be glad that your gun helped put away a criminal and go on with your life. 

Simple question. Why are you so quick to see me be victimized twice?


94 posted on 07/20/2014 5:40:25 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Innovative

Being sued is a civil action, not a criminal prosecution. The prosectuion is over, he is behind bars.

One has nothing to do with the other. They are being buttheads because it’s a gun. Anything else would have been returned already.


95 posted on 07/20/2014 8:20:48 AM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Red in Blue PA

That’s because you think the name of the office (Victim’s Advocate) actually has something to do with what they do.

Instead it is just another branch of the EFTA bureaucratic machine that is sucking the life out of John Q. Public.

http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Culture/efta.html


96 posted on 07/20/2014 8:24:56 AM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Geez...


97 posted on 07/20/2014 9:09:15 AM PDT by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Write a letter to them that if you don’t get the gun back in 30 days, you want the $469 (gun prices have risen over the years) back because it is your property. Also tell them the value of the property will enhance every 30 days. They have photo’s, serial number and written records of your legal purchase. They have no reason to hold onto it.


98 posted on 07/20/2014 9:26:18 AM PDT by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: babygene

Nor would I want a chain saw in my tool shed that had been used for chain saw killings.....Stretching things a bit, aren’t we? Are there ghosts on a chain saw? Or a gun? Or a claw hammer? Maybe there are microbes in a house that witnessed a suicide? I cannot see your point.


99 posted on 07/20/2014 9:34:43 AM PDT by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

He wasn’t at his house at the time it was burglarized, I assume. Should have been with him or hidden or locked up.

Probably either in the closet, or a drawer.


100 posted on 07/20/2014 12:23:41 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Evil must be punished.)
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