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Please Stop Telling Us Why We’re Leaving the Church
https://swingingfromgrapevines.wordpress.com/2014/08/15/please-stop-telling-us-why-were-leaving-the-church/ ^

Posted on 09/16/2014 10:32:38 AM PDT by MNDude

OK, we get it. Millennials are leaving the church in droves! Sound the alarms! Circle the wagons!

Not much makes me angrier than seeing those articles that make the rounds on Facebook every few months. You know the ones: a pastor claims to know why Millennials are really walking away from church. This particular article has proven especially resilient; it pops up in my Newsfeed every few months, to much acclaim. This one, the one that really pushed my buttons and prompted me to finally start the blog we’ve been talking about for a month now, calls these articles to task, purporting to know “how the church really lost the millennials.” (Cliff notes: it says the exact same thing as all the other articles.) This one innovatively shifts the focus to Sunday School rather than youth group, but the conclusion is the same.

(Excerpt) Read more at swingingfromgrapevines.wordpress.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: chat
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To: Buckeye McFrog

You obviously only read the bold type and brought your prejudices with it.


41 posted on 09/16/2014 12:14:54 PM PDT by EricT. (Everything not forbidden is compulsory.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

So are you saying these are the good ones or the evil ones???


42 posted on 09/16/2014 12:15:45 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools)
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To: Springfield Reformer
Your general thoughts on this thread. I respect you as one of the more if not most thougful, reasoned thinkers on FR.

Have a small group meeting tonight where we will be learning about the difference between eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and eating of the Tree of Life.

Will mail you later.

43 posted on 09/16/2014 12:18:55 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools)
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To: EricT.

Praise God for church planters!!!


44 posted on 09/16/2014 12:20:27 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools)
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To: ConservingFreedom

> His use of the P.C. term “LGBTQ” makes clear to me that by “ostracized” he means “identified their sins as sins.”

Maybe, but I could understand its usage in the manner of trying to communicate an idea if the person were surrounded by the term (like you would be getting a degree in social sciences or journalism); I was lucky in that my degree [Computer Science] is/was fairly insulated from that sort of social engineering crap. — I certainly wasn’t defending the conclusions, but to dismiss the issues raised out of hand seems to be a bit... harsh, indeed, prone to a perfectionistic abuse: “You were wrong in one statement; therefore all your statements are wrong” isn’t sound reasoning.

Moreover, it seems to me that the attitude you displayed was akin to that mentioned in James 2 — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2&version=NRSV


45 posted on 09/16/2014 12:21:15 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: MNDude

When there is no tangible, moral consequence for leaving the church (aka the Body of Christ and Biblical doctrine), then why not leave? Of course what one does not see until much time passes is the spiritual consequences of the separation.

The church must unapologetically construct itself on the Gospel and sound doctrine. If the result of this is a smaller church, than so be it. We must never allow ourselves to redefine God based on who we wish Him to be. That is nothing more than self-worship.


46 posted on 09/16/2014 12:22:18 PM PDT by CityCenter (Resist Obamacare!)
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To: ex-snook

>> “IT’S NOT ABOUT MEEEEEE!”
>
> On the target. “I don’t get anything out of Church” sums up the problem. They should try “I came to Church to give thanks.” Try giving instead of getting.

I don’t know — there are some preachers that don’t use the Bible all that heavily; I could certainly see this as cause to say “I don’t get anything out of church”.


47 posted on 09/16/2014 12:24:46 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: ConservingFreedom
groups that Christians have traditionally ostracized – LGBTQ persons, unwed parents

And that's why evangelical churches are dying, and liberal churches like the Episcopalians are thriving.

... Wait a minute... That's NOT what's happening.

48 posted on 09/16/2014 12:30:53 PM PDT by Fido969 (What's sad is most)
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To: OneWingedShark
Moreover, it seems to me that the attitude you displayed was akin to that mentioned in James 2

How so?

49 posted on 09/16/2014 12:32:06 PM PDT by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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To: MNDude

So, basically, they want their church-going experience to be welcoming and ear-tickling. When it isn’t, they leave.

Got it.

As for tithing, it works. Perhaps it is not working for them because they’re not giving in faith or blessing?


50 posted on 09/16/2014 12:34:43 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: gov_bean_ counter

I’m saying those are songs which have no business in a worship service, but the youngsters love them so we all get to take part.

Just the last one in the list:

“He is jealous for me, loves like a hurricane, I am a tree”

“If His grace is an ocean, we’re all sinking”

“And heaven meets earth like an unforeseen kiss and my heart turns violently inside of my chest”

God isn’t my prom date. He is my Lord and Savior. And if His grace is an ocean, we’re floating, not sinking, because grace is how we are saved.

But hey, I’m dumb enough to stay in the church when the college kids around me are gone to the next big thing.


51 posted on 09/16/2014 12:37:34 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Compromise" means you've already decided you lost.)
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To: MNDude

Ok, we are being honest:

Church is boring.
And.. You keep telling them what they want is not acceptable, but every other outlet tells them it’s ok.
And..every time we’ve “ trusted” an elder, we’ve gotten screwed.

I think that pretty much sums it up.


52 posted on 09/16/2014 12:41:38 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (Ebola: Death is a lagging indicator.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Whatever you say.


53 posted on 09/16/2014 12:42:23 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools)
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To: ConservingFreedom
>> Moreover, it seems to me that the attitude you displayed was akin to that mentioned in James 2 > > How so?

There seemed to be a bit of moralistic superiority and judgmentalism for the use of LBGQWERTY [or whatever it is now]; the portion of " have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?" was what I was thinking initially, but I think perhaps the next chapter's discription of the Two Wisdoms would be better

(James 3:13-18)
Who is wise and understanding among you? Show by your good life that your works are done with gentleness born of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not be boastful and false to the truth. Such wisdom does not come down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, devilish. For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there will also be disorder and wickedness of every kind. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without a trace of partiality or hypocrisy. And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace for those who make peace.
Now I grant that all this is just from initial 'tones' of your reply, and text is a terrible medium for good discernment of 'tone' so it is certainly possible that I am mistaken; in short, I merely want to remind you as a fellow Christian of mercy (I'm more prone to harsh judgement than I'm comfortable with, myself) — James 2:12-13 says So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment will be without mercy to anyone who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
54 posted on 09/16/2014 12:45:24 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food,
13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.
14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.


55 posted on 09/16/2014 12:46:12 PM PDT by luvie (All my heroes wear camos! Thank you David, Michael, Chris Txradioguy, JJ, CMS, & ALL Vets, too!l)
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To: gov_bean_ counter

Is there something wrong with wanting a worship service to be reverent? All I know is we’re trying it in a different way and from the words of the OP, it’s not working too well. God’s isn’t in charge. People are inventing their “personal Jesus”. Should we really be surprised when they feel unfulfilled and leave?

Obviously we agree to disagree. Be well.


56 posted on 09/16/2014 12:50:16 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Compromise" means you've already decided you lost.)
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To: LUV W

Thank you, dear friend :)


57 posted on 09/16/2014 12:51:14 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Compromise" means you've already decided you lost.)
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To: MNDude; Egon; Orgiveme

Bump for further study


58 posted on 09/16/2014 12:53:29 PM PDT by RhoTheta (US foreign policy under BO: 'Talk butchly and carry a small twig.' -- Mark Steyn)
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To: MNDude

Well I didn’t read all the comments so I might be repeating someone but...
The Cross of Christ is an affront to all of us if we’re honest and the “self-life” is still very popular among fallen, sinful human beings. Not much has changes has it? Millennials are just the latest to be offended by it. It is still God’s path to life eternal and the path to growth for the believer. It will never lose its power PTL!


59 posted on 09/16/2014 12:54:44 PM PDT by Lake Living
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To: Vermont Lt
Church is boring.

If it lacks Jesus, then it ought to be.
There's little more disgusting than the religousity-trapings severed from the Vine.

And.. You keep telling them what they want is not acceptable, but every other outlet tells them it’s ok.

Debatable; every 'want' is not necessarily a sin [e.g. to be competent at your work], but there are many good wants that Satan can [and does] twist to evil.
Given the talk about the dangers of authoritarianism, there is the possibility that the first category is what's being told is not acceptable.

And..every time we’ve “ trusted” an elder, we’ve gotten screwed.

This, this is certainly a valid point.
I've seen people who, when told I love you in a particular cone/cadence tense up and prepare for Bad ThingsTM as their instinctual defenses kick in — what must have happened to make those three words trigger such a reaction? And dare we forget what Jesus said about teaching children and millstones?

60 posted on 09/16/2014 12:56:26 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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