Posted on 10/08/2014 11:41:47 AM PDT by wagglebee
Thanks for your post, it was very insightful.
I certainly believe that God does know the hour of our death and He has known it from the moment of Creation and that means that He has always known that millions would be murdered in the womb. He doesn't condone it, but because He gave man free will He allows it. I don't believe the Catholic and Reformed beliefs differ on this.
I had never really considered the Reformed position that some of the unborn might not be among the elect, but it is certainly true that some of these babies would not have been saved had they lived.
Though I am certainly not a theologian, my personal view is that the aborted babies are martyrs. Murder is certainly sin and as such a tool of Satan. And abortion is the most evil form of murder as it is the only method in which the victim lacks any mean at all of self-defense. The motive for the murder of these children is not anything they have done, it is not based upon anything the children believe, they are being murdered simply because they exist. I believe that Satan has entered the abortionists in the same manner he entered Judas Iscariot and that the abortionists are serving Satan just as Judas did. If this is the case, and I realize I may be incorrect, these babies are all martyrs who have been baptized in blood and are with Christ in Heaven.
You have brought up several interesting points. The first, the recognition of God's omniscience, is well-described throughout the Scriptures. You acknowledge that, as do I.
The second point you make, that God does not "condone it, but because He gave man free will He allows it." is worth exploring. Part of this statement is indeed biblical, part of it is not. God certainly does not "condone" our evil at any level. But, with respect to "free will", we may be a ways apart. The classic Reformed position, and I believe the Catholic position, are fairly close on this. They both align with Augustine against Pelagian, but operate in a sort of semi-Pelagian view. That is, in reality, they both hold that there is, in fact, free will. I have for some time puzzled how this position can be sustained, but you are right that the Catholic and Reformed (capital R) views agree.
However, I would make it clear here, apparently I do not hold a Reformed position on this matter. My (r)eformed position is that there is no such thing as "free will". I cannot find it in the Scriptures, but rather find the exact opposite. Proverbs 21:1 has Solomon saying that God controls his heart like a little "channel of water", turning it wherever He wishes. Dozens of other passages have God "putting" this or that into the heart of men/women to do certain things. Even the roll of a die is controlled by God, so evidently "randomness" is an illusion.
All of this operates to convince me that the Scriptures (certainly not human logic, philosophy, nor modern thought) teaches God is managing every detail of every being at every moment. The remarks, such as, "Adam, where are you?" are for the effect on us humans. God always knows all, because He is managing all.
Likely this will cause the rebuttal, "Well, you are saying that God is responsible for sin then." If one would mean, therefore He is going to hold Himself guilty, this is nonsense. But, did He originate sin? Absolutely. Creation Ex Nihilo implies there was nothing before God, so (John 1:1ff) all things have been made by Him and for Him. All things. Even Satan.
And, recall, Luke tells us in Acts 2:23ff that the most despicable sin of all, the execution of the Prince of Holiness, the Lord of All, the Messiah of Israel was arranged by the "...predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God" Who used men to nail Him to the cross. Was the guilt ours? Absolutely. Was the management His? Absolutely. As Paul writes in Rom. 9, I may think this is unfair...but that is not for me to determine. The Potter can do anything He wishes with His clay.
I certainly agree with you that Satan was used to energize the reprehensible abortionists who murder babies in (and now out) of the womb. They will suffer greatly for this, unless God grants them repentance (II Tim 2:24ff) and causes them to escape the "...snare of the devil..." But, even David the rapist and murderer was among God's elect, so I withhold judgment as to whether they are salvageable.
Even if you do take this position, the net result is the same in that the ongoing slaughter of innocent babies continues with the foreknowledge of God.
I certainly agree with you that Satan was used to energize the reprehensible abortionists who murder babies in (and now out) of the womb. They will suffer greatly for this, unless God grants them repentance (II Tim 2:24ff) and causes them to escape the "...snare of the devil..." But, even David the rapist and murderer was among God's elect, so I withhold judgment as to whether they are salvageable.
Certainly some of the abortionists will repent and some have already, but I also believe that a great many of them carry out their carnage with the full understanding that they are doing it for Satan.
Yes, I agree. And, the effort to stop abortionists is not in any way "fighting against God" (as I am often accused of saying) even though He is still in control. He has called us to speak against evil, promote the good. For this, I am grateful to Catholics who speak/act against the travesty of infanticide. Hopefully, the next President has a more biblically based world view than the man in the WH does now. From his promotion of homosexuality, his disdain for one man/one woman marriage, his respect for Islam, his promotion of all things unseemly, even the promotion of racism, one wonders how he could possibly claim to be a Christian.
I daresay that ANYONE (including Hillary) will be better than Obama.
Never thought I would say this, but you are right. I just hope that it is not her. Her inability to deal with Benghazi truthfully, her bizarre marital arrangement (is there one?), her now embracing homosexuality, her unwillingness to stand for a border (while Ebola floods into AZ with the illegals who have been exposed down south), her lack of understanding the economy makes her almost as bad as O. But, if I am consistent with my own view, even this is being managed by God. I still enjoy complaining...
Obama is a Marxist who is totally committed to the cause, regardless of the personal consequences.
Hillary is also a Marxist, but personal glory is more important than the cause and she will happily abandon any cause to preserve her reputation.
Hillary is A LOT more intelligent than Obama. Hillary knew exactly what was going on in Benghazi and sought to distance herself as much as possible and create scapegoats in her path. Obama likely didn't have a clue what was going on and to this day I don't think he really understands what happened.
Excellent observations...tragic, but astute. And, you are right about her seeking to distance herself from the fray at Benghazi. Maybe that is what makes me believe she is desperately evil (in a different way) than O. You are right...he doesn’t get it. She gets it and threw everyone else (literally) under the bus (4 dead). Amazing that anyone, especially guys like Warren Buffet, would have anything to do with her. Maybe they are all demonic.
Everyone else who has ever crossed her has been destroyed, often winding up in prison or the morgue.
Somebody very powerful, who the Clintons genuinely feared, got to them and told them to let Obama have the nomination. I can think of no other reason for her going along with things the way she did.
Any Democrat who tries to challenge her for the nomination in 2016 will be doing so at their own peril.
Yeow! Isn't there some prosecutor that is beginning to speak up and say he was about to slap a Whitewater charge(s) on her back in the day...and he got sent off to some other assignment? Let's hope the guy speaks loud and clear and she is shown for what she really is.
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