Posted on 12/17/2014 8:35:06 AM PST by SleeperCatcher
Excellent analysis!
If everyone thought as you do, ServantBoy, you’d be correct. And if the Founders had allowed FEAR to cloud their judgment, we’d all have British accents and would be kissing the Royal Ring.
Expand your circle of associates. There are those out there who face these fears every day, with determination, courage and faith.
It will happen... with or without you. The choice is yours.
What’s wrong? In a word, ambiguity. Many if not most issues can be resolved for the most part by clarifying the beautiful but vague language used by the Founders.
Amendments can be proposed that would close the loopholes and tighten up the wording that the courts consistently use to “find” powers that were never intended.
Congress will never do this. Only an amendments convention can return the meaning of the Constitution to that of the Founders’ original intent.
By the way, just so there is no misunderstanding, an amendments convention is NOT a Con-Con. It’s a meeting of constitutional delegates who will introduce, debate and propose a slate of IDEAS that must then be ratified by three-quarters of the states before they become amendments.
Words mean something... in matters of such gravity, we should use them carefully.
Words are better than “penumbras and emanations.”
What will stop the Left? Arithmetic.
If it takes three-quarters of the state legislatures to ratify a GOOD amendment proposal, then conversely it would take only one-quarter of those same state legislatures to KILL a bad one.
Frankly, at a Convention of States where the mandate of every delegate will be to reduce the size and power of the federal government, to apply fiscal restraints, and to impose term limits on all federal officials, it’s nearly inconceivable that any “Leftist” amendment would ever make it beyond introduction, let alone pass debate and make it to a slate of recommended proposals.
Maybe you’re thinking of a different convention. There are other Article V efforts with entirely different agendas that have nothing at all to do with the movement associated with the Citizens for Self-Governance Convention of States Project.
What will stop the Left? Arithmetic.
If it takes three-quarters of the state legislatures to ratify a GOOD amendment proposal, then conversely it would take only one-quarter of those same state legislatures to KILL a bad one.
Frankly, at a Convention of States where the mandate of every delegate will be to reduce the size and power of the federal government, to apply fiscal restraints, and to impose term limits on all federal officials, it’s nearly inconceivable that any “Leftist” amendment would ever make it beyond introduction, let alone pass debate and make it to a slate of recommended proposals.
Maybe you’re thinking of a different convention. There are other Article V efforts with entirely different agendas that have nothing at all to do with the movement associated with the Citizens for Self-Governance Convention of States Project.
Good news! Many of your apprehensions are based on misinformation.
The Convention of States effort being advanced by the Citizens for Self-Governance does not restrict debate to specific amendments, but rather to specific subject matter: To propose amendments that will reduce the size and power of the federal government, apply fiscal restraints, and impose term limits on all federal officials.
The nature and wording of the specific amendments will be up to the delegates. That’s why they’re having a convention in the first place... to introduce, debate and propose a slate of amendments to the 50 state legislatures for ratification, all within the structures of the subject matter defined above.
There are other Article V efforts that are much more narrow and restrictive. Although I believe that ANY attempt to reign in the federal government is a good thing, I support the above-referenced CSG COS Project.
Delegates to this COS Will be among the most constitutionally conservative advocates of liberty alive, and may be enlisted from the ranks of local elected officials or non-elected citizens. The only persons ineligible by statute are federal officials.
Again, there are other Article V efforts out there, so it’s best to do the legwork, make the necessary distinctions and relieve your apprehensions.
Everything that you’ve posited here is either the product of a massive misinformation campaign to which you have fallen victim, or are deliberate lies.
Most of us here know better.
If you had even a clue as to what you’re talking about, you’d be embarrassed to toss such a load of bunk out there and expect anyone to buy it.
We are NOT morons. You? I dunno.
Just a rough guess here, but maybe you don’t “see” it because you haven’t looked in the right places?
Personally, I avoid any information put out by the John Birch Society, mainly because they are a well-known and unapologetic source of distortion, misinformation and outright lies when it comes to the Article V movement.
This is not news, by the way. They, along with the Schlafleys over at Eagle Forum, have been spreading the same bogus claptrap since the 80s.
You can find the TRUTH here in this thread and many others on this forum, if you’re truly interested, but you’ll have to screen out the BUNK.
To level the playing field and give yourself an unbiased frame of reference to help you sort out what is rumor, error or just plain bullish*t, take a few minutes and look over the refreshingly straightforward information offered directly from the source, the Citizens for Self-Governance Convention of States Project at http://www.conventionofstates.com
Or not.
You wrote, “America was founded on such miracles.”
Gotta love it!
Awesome... simply awesome.
You wrote,”i do not wish to see my constitution evolve into a living breathing liberal interpretation of my God given rights.”
I suggest, then, that you either close your eyes, because that’s exactly what’s happening as we speak, or you can get on board and encourage your state senator and representatives to support the Article V legislation being advanced by the Citizens for Self-Governance.
Http://www.conventionofstates.com
“Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women;... when it dies there,... no constitution,... no law,.... no court... can save it;.... no constitution,... no law,... no court ...even can do much to help it.” - Judge Learned Hand
So we’re back to square one...it is the people and thhe Representatives elected and selected ....which you can’t change human behavior apart from God.
We were once a nation uder God and people knew this and embraced this....that is not that today...just the opposite where God is fought and removed from our country. There is no outcry rather an acceptance of this status as the “face” of our nation has changed to “something else”.
....” Well after reading referred links and comments it does appear “returning to federalism, devolution of power from DC to the states, would destroy the Uni-party hold on our nation.”....
So how much “time” would be required to organize sufficient co-operation not just from the states, but those who would be willing to push this.....let alone make the changes once a convention is held.
With focus now on the elections who would take time to do this work? ...can it be done along side the elections?
Many questions......
It has met twice, the last being earlier this month. Mostly republicans attended, which makes sense since 66 of 99 state houses are in republican hands. The goal is to spread the word about Article V, and set up recommended parliamentary procedures for a convention.
Federalist 85, the last one, deals with Article V. A quote: “We may rely on the state legislatures to erect barriers against the encroachments of the national authority.”
Several Federalist Papers deal with the senate. The single best is #62.
A certain amount of virtue in the people is necessary, yet our recent history shows we can send conservatives to congress into infinity, and it has made little difference.
Two points:
One, the Framers’ constitution accounted for man's nature, his tendency to seek power over others. They countered it with a government design which first divided power vertically between the states and the government they created, then horizontally between three branches. The constitution acts on both the people and the states. In order to have a republic, the states MUST be represented in the law making body. The 17th amendment set up internal contradictions which, a hundred years later, are tearing our nation apart.
Second, consider something we don't hear very often anymore since the demise of the USSR, which is the leftist claim that socialism hasn't worked anywhere, ever, because the right people haven't been put in charge. Too many conservatives think the same, that all we need to do is elect the right people to “make the constitution work.” That concept removes us from a nation of laws in to that of a nation of men, and eventual tyranny.
Yes i should have included a sarc tag, but the constitution we have is good enough, we need a movement to protect it not change it
I am in number five... Fourteenth amendment prohibiting those who have gone against the constitution from ever holding any elected office unless congress votes to overturn... Enforce the one we have with the tenacity of a pit bull. Art iii sect iii. Or is it ii ii of xiv
Count me in as one of those “on board”.
Now stop trying to sound like Mark Levin and give me specific examples and how you would change it.
We are all on the same side. We are all aside ourselves at the level of corruption in gubbamint and we all seek the preservation of our country/liberties.
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