Poll: 80 Percent Back Putin Even as Ruble Falls

The New York Times ^ | Dec. 18, 2014 | The Associated Press

[Bettyprob]

MOSCOW — From a Western perspective, Vladimir Putin's days as president of Russia should be numbered: The ruble has lost more than half its value, the economy is in crisis and his aggression in Ukraine has turned the country into an international pariah.

And yet most Russians see Putin not as the cause, but as the solution.

The situation as seen from a Russian point of view is starkly different from that painted in the West, and it is driven largely by state television's carefully constructed version of reality and the Kremlin's methodical dismantling of every credible political alternative.

As Putin prepares to face his public in a much-anticipated televised news conference, an Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll released Thursday found that about 80 percent of Russians still support him.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

The Russkies lost something like 20 million people, and also started off the war with, apparently, 35 thousand tanks, most of which were destroyed despite their vast numerical superiority. This was because of Stalin’s incompetence. Without the West providing aid, the USSR could not have survived a war with Nazi germany, nor would they have survived long if we have listened to Patton and drove our tanks into Moscow.

Our history is a history of weakness when it comes to Moscow, taking out their cousins in Nazi Germany but leaving the rotten family of Communism alive that even helped start the war to begin with with their alliance with Nazi germany and plan to divide up Europe.

[Jim Robinson]

Retread trolls Bettyprob and wetphoenix banned.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Many people like to think that if we gave Russians just more access to the news that they could reform and become nice Western conservatives and freedom lovers. History has shown that a people long enslaved, even when freed, are prone to return immediately to that same slavery, often times even worse than the one they had before. That’s why I included that quote from Machiavelli, as it so perfectly captured this sad truth.

Look at our Democrats- our welfare dependents and the like. Can you reason with them very well? Now imagine 5 generations of this where your whole country is a dysfunctional welfare state where nobody works in the traditional American sense. THEN add in repression and mass murder of everyone with the guts to do something. What kind of culture and people are left after this “unnatural selection”? You get a people who are not only happy to believe in the lies told by their state, they CHOOSE to believe it even when they know it is all a lie. That is the situation in Russia.

This is the “New Communist Man” the Soviets were always hoping to create. They even thought about ways they might make Human-Ape hybrids who would presumably be even easier to control, but this experiment proved unnecessary.

As for Russian views about Americans-— no, they do view us in the Nazi-Jewish perspective. They believe Americans are behind all the world’s troubles, including Al-Qaeda (the reverse is true, if KGB/FSB defectors are to be believed), and they boast that they can reduce us all to nuclear ash. These are the words of mass genocide, not someone who merely thinks they’re being threatened. The Jews were also accused of being behind all the world’s troubles, that’s why it only left one solution: to kill them all, according to the Nazi liars.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Bettyprob wasn’t even on my radar! Thanks Jim for checking out these guys! I thought we’d be stuck with Wetphoenix forever!

[elhombrelibre]

Mine, too, Jim. I don't come to this site to read what Putin's party line is. I don't accept that a private American website is obligated to allow foreign citizens spout anti-American opinions. It's not unusual that most of us feel freedom of speech, even wrong headed and false, is not to be stifled. We believe in free speech. But this is Jim's website, and his house. Freedom of speech cannot be stopped by the government. But freemen are not obligated to support or sustain nonsense and foreign propaganda.

[nathanbedford]

I would like to respond to the implication that I believe that free speech is the silver bullet, the panacea, for the pathology which currently infects Russia. As long ago as 2009, I posted replies after a trip to Russia which concludes that the problem is far deeper and far more intransigent.

Free speech is indispensable but, regrettably, an insufficient predicate for a decent civil society.

Here are the posts and I stand by every word today:

--------------------------

The more I reflect on my exposure to Russia, which I was privileged to see not through conservative American eyes but through the eyes of my traveling companions, German businesspeople, I believe that the key to understanding Russia is not to examine Marx but to reflect on Dostoevsky.

At the end of the day, Russia is hapless because of pervasive cynicism which dominates the culture. American intellectuals amuse themselves by denigrating American boosterism but this optimism is not confected out of the air, it is rooted in a constitutional system, with a rule of law that is respectable and respected, and a fair market which is reasonably fair. None of this works in Russia.

Boosterism is Pollyanna-ish, it has no place in the reality of Russia but that world is rational only because that is a world of corruption, cronyism, brutality, and quite rational cynicism.

For example, Vladimir Putin is admired not for his virtue but for his Machiavellian cynicism, not so much that he is corrupt but that he is successful at being corrupt. If you hate the system, there is a certain logic in a man who beats system and bends it to his will. If you decry Vladimir Putin as a villain you only betray your naïveté, your fatal detachment from the world of reality. The game is not to reform the system but to exploit it. To believe otherwise is to play the fool.

--------------------------

About two years ago I participated with a group of German real estate investors in a tour of the real estate market in Moscow. Two anecdotes remain with me and illustrate my sense of the whole situation in Russia, or at least in Moscow.

First, I recall as we were riding through Moscow we passed the statue of Lenin which was pointed out to our group and the Germans had no particular reaction. I asked my seat mate who is a journalist covering our group, "what do you suppose the reaction would be upon seeing a statue of George Bush? "He laughed without responding to the question directly because it required no answer. Lenin is more popular in Germany than George Bush.

On another occasion we were escorted into an old factory area which had been converted into an office complex and looked like something resembling an American shopping center. We were awaiting the arrival of the entrepreneur who had performed this renovation and who was described to us as a man who could get things done in Moscow because he was a former city councilman, in other words, an apparatchik. The representation was made not by inference but explicitly that this man could achieve entrepreneurial miracles in Moscow because he was connected and in fact would bribe the officials.

Our apparatchik was late but eventually the gate opened and three blacked out SUVs came into the courtyard and formed a semi circle around us. Huge men, better described as gorillas, emerged from the vehicles and formed a circle around us sweeping back their coats like Wyatt Earp to reveal very impressive looking firearms at their belts. Only then did Wyatt Earp himself emerge from his SUV and began to address us through an interpreter. He reiterated the pitch: he could do business in Moscow because of his connections.

I said to one on my German colleagues, "how can you be a partner with this man? What do you do in the event of a dispute? He just told us that everything in Russia is corrupt so you get no fair treatment from the courts? Would you hire a bigger gang of thugs to have a shootout to settle your partnership disagreement? No thank you."

Today (2009) Russia is a one trick pony: natural resources, oil and gas, with the bulk of that being shipped to my neighbors here in Germany. By the dictates of geography, Russia enjoys considerable leverage over Europe but her destiny is to resemble the Arab Middle East, rich in oil but poor in every other respect.

No rule of law, no vital capitalism. No real capitalism, no real progress.

If I were compelled to offer up one word to describe the situation in Moscow two years ago it would be, cynicism. It is ubiquitous and I believe it will ultimately do great damage to Russian society. It is almost the ultimate application of what we in America call, the critical theory invented by THE FRANKFURT SCHOOL to undermine resistance to communism. The irony ought not to escape us.

[Freelance Warrior]

Look at our Democrats- our welfare dependents and the like

They’re really a good example that a free access to information isn’t enough to make one a conservative. Those Democrats have the same information access like the Conservatives and haven’t been enslaved for five generations either.

people long enslaved, even when freed, are prone to return immediately to that same slavery, often times even worse than the one they had before

This is true, of course. But, it lacks the reason why people choose that way: because all people tend to repeat the strategy which worked in the past. Learning a new way requires experimenting and experimenting needs time and failures are inevitable in that way. So it's a hard way. But someone will have it passed someday and show it to others.

As for Russian views about Americans-— no, they do view us in the Nazi-Jewish perspective.

This would be true if the USA were Israel. But that proposal can’t stand a rendez-vous with reality. I can offer a concurrent version – Russians view Americans as people who managed to set their fiat currency as the world one and that’s why they don’t have to work now. All they need is just printing more paper. The Black American Democrat is a Russian role model for the American worker.

But Putin have little significance in this theme. Why would a perfectly free and self-sufficient people want not to take a province from a neighboring nation or something like that? We have numerous examples for this in history, including the American part of it.

[Freelance Warrior]

I took up a keyword from your post. "Connections". Aren't social contacts crucial to doing business everywhere? But, in the Russian case the difference is that the "connections" are to the government officials. And the overwhelming role of the government apparatus in Russia is really the top Russian problem in many ways. Speaking about the cynicism you mix up the reason and the outcome. The Russian cynicism is a kind of psychological defense aganst the system. People tend to use such psychological defenses in a bad situation they can't change or escape it.

As for Putin, he deserves some credit, making at least some officials more law abiding. Commerical courts give a fair treatment when the opponents are at least 'not-connected' parties - this situation is the largest share of the cases. Still, enforcing a decision is almost impossible. Business disputes aren't settled now with shootouts like they were during West-admired alcoholic Boris Yeltsyn. That has also changed during a term of Mr. Putin's presidency.

[x_plus_one]

The sooner you unlink the words Russia and Communist the faster you will see that Soros is the new banker for Ukraine, WWIII is a planned NATO exercise and massive fallout from nukes, broken reactors and faulty storage repositories is the biggest threat. Brazil has less radiological contamination by far.

[x_plus_one]

Use google chrome browser and visit some russian blogs and websites. It has a translate to english right click feature. Learn something new about those who have the capacity to nuke us into oblivion on the premise that we are the evil empire - not they.

[Freelance Warrior]

Use google chrome browser and visit some russian blogs and websites. It has a translate to english right click feature

I don't need automatic translation to read in Russian. Different people have different images of the world, so you have basically said that the Russian image is different from the American one. So what? Are you annoyed with the extremity of nuking?

[Grzegorz 246]

LOL !

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

This would be true if the USA were Israel.

The United States does indeed parallel Israel. Actually, the KGB created middle east terrorism in the first place, and that is why the propaganda of the terrorists always depicts Israel as a great evil, and only second in its evil to the United States. If Russia and its terrorist allies had the opportunity, they would certainly inflict a holocaust on both us and our ally Israel. Russian propaganda is entirely in the language of holocaust, or the lead up to it, where the "final solution" for American "Imperialism" will be mass murder.

But that proposal can’t stand a rendez-vous with reality. I can offer a concurrent version – Russians view Americans as people who managed to set their fiat currency as the world one and that’s why they don’t have to work now. All they need is just printing more paper. The Black American Democrat is a Russian role model for the American worker.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. For the comment about getting our " fiat currency as the world one," if Russia was not a third world country masquerading as a world power, and if it was economically successful, and produced things other than just cheap vodka and crime to supplement the sale of their natural resources, then maybe they might have a currency that could be trusted. If the Russkies merely see us as unfairly being so successful, then this only confirms what I was saying earlier: that the Russians are the product of Communist social engineering, and thus see the world in envious terms. This is why they cheat, steal, rape and murder, because that is what an envious world view leads to.

But Putin have little significance in this theme.

Putin has little significance as he is merely the face of Russia and the face of the underground soviet system that was never dismantled after the perestroika deception (had it been real, then Russia should have been De-Sovietized in the same way Germany was De-Nazified). If I went to Moscow tomorrow and stuck his head on a pike, some other "former" Communist goon would take his place.

Why would a perfectly free and self-sufficient people want not to take a province from a neighboring nation or something like that?

The "not" negation confuses me. Also, who is the perfectly free and self-sufficient people you are speaking of? It can't be the Russians, but only us Americans.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Thanks for your post! Very interesting

[x_plus_one]

Extremity of nuking results in huge radiological burden. No one is ready for this.

[Freelance Warrior]

Of course. I just wanted to say those posts about nuking were not more that some idle chatting by Internet anonyms.

[ansel12]

wetphoenix was a retread and not the FSB Russian special forces guy living in Russia that he claimed to be, and who read high resolution satellite photos, and had been to Ukraine and so on?

This is from a thread that got pulled, where he told me which unit he served in by posting a video link of it.

It was all made up?