Posted on 06/23/2015 5:43:39 PM PDT by SoConPubbie
Except that it was an unconstitutional end run around the Treaty Clause of the Constitution. But nobody cares about the Constitution anymore.
BTW can you name a single fast tracked trade agreement that has been a net benefit to the United States?
Just one.
Code Toad: “So, I take it from that statement that Cruz was willing to vote yes to something he never read???”
SoConPubbie: “Doubt it. Nothing in Cruz’s record would lead an objective, honest person to assume that.”
1.) We are not discussing his “record” - but rather this particular exercise, which Code Toad obviously understand, while you keep pretending there is no reason to doubt anything Cruz says or does.
2.) Code Toad’s question id objective and honest - your continuing attempts to deflect honest criticism are nether objective nor honest.
>I always liked kool-aid as a kid.<
I think his favorite flavor is purple.
Hope your not holding your breath waiting for an answer to that
IBICAT
:-}
TPA wasn’t secret. I read it before Cruz voted for it, so why wouldn’t you believe Cruz read it?
The second TPA was not changed and the ExIm provision was not in the TPA that Cruz voted against. What happened was that the dems were promised by McConnell and Boehner that the ExIM would be renewed if they supported TPA and rammed it through.
Cruz was for TPA before he was against it.
The only thing that changed was that there were promises made for democratic support of the same bill that Ted Cruz supported.
That's his story anyway.
Sounds like a pretty lame excuse.
The more honorable thing to do was just say "I WAS WRONG." Instead he claims "I WAS DUPED".
>I can’t believe people on here are falling for this crap. He voted no because he knew it would pass; this is all a dog and pony show.<
I can. This is Mitt Romney redux. And it’s just as ugly.
I have asked it of every Cruz apologist who has tried to justify his vote for TPA. So far the only answer I got was someone who said that NAFTA was good because more Mexicans are working in Mexico and not coming here. In other words, it created enough jobs in Mexico that it reduced the number of people who had to come here to steal American jobs.
But the fact is that the net loss of US Jobs has been estimated at 800,000. Yeah, thank fast track for that one.
Trust me,I own a mfg company,I know all about NAFTA,I’ve been living it for years.
None of them! There is NOT EVEN ONE politician in this country that is not either a liar, a sociopath, or else somebody’s butt boy. To run for office under these present circumstances, when nothing is sacred, when honor and personal integrity are qualities practiced only when politically advantageous - and the television cameras are rolling ... to desire to associate with such a filthy cadre of treacherous, treasonous, narcissistic, megalomaniac oligarchical reprobates ... is proof enough that the candidate is unfit for public office.
I would not give you a bucket of spit for any of today’s politicians - not one of them is a “statesman” ... They are all whores, perhaps some are more honest whores than others, but nevertheless they are still whores - conniving chameleons, the lot of which would sellout your rights in a heartbeat, if doing so would advance their position up the oligarchical ladder. They all should be publicly hung from the lamp posts along every American main street - right down to the very last self-serving bastard.
> “Except that it was an unconstitutional end run around the Treaty Clause of the Constitution. But nobody cares about the Constitution anymore.”
Bullsh*t.
> “BTW can you name a single fast tracked trade agreement that has been a net benefit to the United States?”
Yep. Post WWII trade expansion governed by GATT and enforced with the Marshall Plan.
> “Just one.”
The trade bills with Chile, South Korea among many many others.
Note that many people at elite universities write their thesis on international trade. As part of their introductions they cover a great deal of history on GATT, effects of Smoot-Hawley crippling tariffs and hundreds of other issues of trade. You can read about them online. There’s plenty for you to come up to speed by reading and studying. But I sense you won’t be doing that.
The USA is the world’s biggest economy and the US Dollar is the world’s reserve currency because of historical trade agreements.
Let’s get a couple of things clear.
1) Trade agreements are NOT treaties. Why? Because they involve setting tariffs which are revenues to the United States. The Constitution’s Origination Clause requires that all revenue bills originate in the House for Representatives and move to the Senate. Therefore, there is never a treaty requirement to invoke the supermajority of the Senate.
2) Trade agreements NEVER happen without a TPA type vehicle. This is easy to understand. Nations will NOT negotiate with 535 arguing members of Congress. That is always a losing proposition resulting in massive frustration. Therefore, it was decided decades ago that the President would be the go-to guy for negotiating trade and that means in practice the President appoints trade delegations to do the negotiating. The President’s delegates communicate with Congress in the process but Congress doesn’t get to file amendments BUT THEY DO GET TO VOTE UP OR DOWN. So Congress has the final say.
Further, TPA has been around for decades and has always needed to be renewed. The last time it was up for renewal it was during the GW Bush presidency and Harry Reid killed it. The TPA has never been a bad document. It’s just a tool. Depending on what people do with the tool, the results can be beneficial or harmful.
Further again, another factor is the American worker. The American worker goes through cycles depending on the degree of union control. In the 1980s under Ronald Reagan the American auto unions had their asses handed to them. And Judge Green killed Ma Bell with the Carter Phone Decision (not related to Jimmy Carter). Sometimes tough love is best for these unions.
More detail is here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3301266/posts
TRADE DEFICITS
The chronic US Trade Deficit is caused by local politics controlled by democrats and overseen by federal level democrats in executive and congressional agencies.
In other words, the US Trade Deficit is not caused by any particular nation outside the US nor by sweet heart deals with foreign powers nor protectionism in foreign markets. The trade deficits are the results of local politicians, mostly democrats, keeping a lid on American exports unless they are bought off.
In other words again, the US is the cause of its own trade deficit, why?
Because most of the resources, goods and production outside of software and marketing are in industries that are historically conservative, for example, industries that advocate for limited government, lower taxes, free trade etc. And they advocate strongly for these issues because they need them to stay in business. The democrats don’t care unless they are bribed, bribed a lot and with regularity. That’s the reality.
Democrats do not want to empower their opponents by granting them export licenses unless they can somehow get a piece of the action or make the industries bow down before Climate Change or other such rot of the day.
There are many many many resources and commodities that the world is begging for America to sell them but that Americans are not allowed to sell because export licenses are not granted.
This results in more imports than exports and hence large structural trade deficits.
The other large factor that hampers American trade is taxes. There are more than 19 trillion US Dollars offshore because of insane IRS taxes. That means when a large American corporation rakes in revenue overseas. they keep it on deposit overseas to avoid high taxes bringing it back stateside. These taxes cause trade deficits to enlarge even further.
I know where Ted Cruz is coming from. I know what his constituents are pressuring him to do. They want to trade, they want to trade bad. They want to sell things, sell things that are in high demand from foreign markets. And they can’t do it because Obama won’t let them.
The mess we have today was not created by TPA. It was created by regulatory strangleholds mostly held by democrats which are controlling the emerging Beltway Uniparty.
Now all the above is not for your edification because you have agenda that you have to hold onto. That agenda is to try and take down Ted Cruz. Sorry to inform you it’s not working.
No, the above is for those that are reading and wanting more accurate perspectives and who will then take the time to go and hear Ted Cruz when he comes to a townhall meeting near them.
So, this agreement, does not give overriding power to Our executive branch, of Our Government/ or to, outside International Confederations? Why the secrecy?
Well, the founders did not intend that the sovereignty of the United States could be negotiated away on a simple majority vote. That is why they required that treaties (such as Nafta and TPA) would need a 2/3 agreement of the Senators (which at the time were the representatives of the States and elected by State Legislatures)
Yep. Post WWII trade expansion governed by GATT and enforced with the Marshall Plan.
Gatt was a treaty and ratified by 2/3 of the Senate. It was not fast tracked.
Trade agreements are NOT treaties. Why? Because they involve setting tariffs which are revenues to the United States. The Constitution’s Origination Clause requires that all revenue bills originate in the House for Representatives and move to the Senate. Therefore, there is never a treaty requirement to invoke the supermajority of the Senate.
That is post modern argument. The founders intended that any agreement between nations that bound the United States beyond the election of the next president was a treaty and needed 2/3 of the Senate to become law.
From Miriam Webster Dictionary on “Trade Agreement”
First Known Use of TRADE AGREEMENT
circa 1921
Where’s my apology.
Let me restate that: where is my apology?
This Obama trade deal is a trojan horse.It’s disguised as “free trade” What It really allows is for Obama to flood the USA with an unlimited number of 3rd world immigrants ...
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/immigration/item/20710-obama-gop-trade-scheme-includes-unrestricted-immigration
This Fast track gives Obama power to make treaties that override U.S. laws. It’s the destruction of the republic.It gives obama unlimited dictatorial power to destroy the U.S. Proof here :
http://getliberty.org/oppose-trade-authority-for-obama-on-pacific-trade-deal/
http://www.conservativehq.com/node/20233 .
Obama has been working on this TPP obamatrade agreement for at least 5 years in Secret.
Congress just voted to give Obama fast track trade promotion authority to pass this horrendous trojan horse secret agreement. That means that Congress cannot even debate about this nor add amendments and only 51% of the vote is needed to pass it instead of the usual 60% needed (cloture) .
This TPP is something that the left and Obama have been crafting for 5 years and now gets no debate and cannot even seen by the American people only after they shove it down our throat.
They voted to let Obama act like a dictator to pass this country destroying TPP. So Obama gets to pass his own law in which the left have crafted MANY ways to get around U.S. immigration law. They call it “trade in services” which is really Obama’s immigration agenda. If you read these links you’ll see all this is true. One link is from Jeff Sessions
The fact is that Cruz should not have been for the 1st TPA since it gave power to Obama-period.
It shouldn't have mattered that the later deal got corrupted.
2nd, the fact that the GOP Leadership is corrupt is a well known fact.
Cruz as a Tea Party leader should have known that fact since that is what the Tea Party was formed to do, to battle the corrupt Establishment GOP.
You guys keep trying to shift the blame away from Cruz but he has to carry the responsibility of voting for the 1st TPA.
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