Posted on 09/24/2015 5:52:56 AM PDT by Gamecock
A soldier’s death while target shooting with friends last weekend was accidental, Lexington County Coroner Margaret Fisher said Wednesday.
Army Command Sgt. Maj. Michael Heintz died when a .50-caliber pistol he was using recoiled and fired into him, Fisher said.
There were no signs alcoholic beverages or narcotics were involved, she said.
The incident happened about 1:30 p.m. Saturday at a home in the 1500 block of Willis Street about four miles south of Batesburg-Leesville, according to an incident report from deputies.
Heintz, 44, was there with his brother, Russell, and other friends, according to a website created in his memory.
He was a 23-year military veteran whose parents lived in Rock Hill, the website said.
The pistol must be a Desert Eagle in 50. I have seen a second shot from a semi auto pistol in 9mm fired by recoil but it was always down range. Guess a big bore 50 could recoil upward toward one’s head. But....a Sergeants Major? Experienced with firearms. There has to be something else involved here. Maybe a disgruntled female acquaintance?
Maybe his first time shooting one? His sidearm in the Army would be a 9mm.
I have a Ruger 44 mag that I used to enjoy shooting. I haven’t been able to keep up on my field or range time and tend to think shooting my magnum firearms, pistol and rifle, is a bit to much for me now. I still would like to try though.
i have one also,good shooting gun.
There is at least one other source that cites a "stray bullet", so apparently there are few knowledgeable reporters of the incident.
Also, a round discharged from a "limp-wristed" semi-auto pistol is still going to go downrange.
The biggest consequence of "limp-wristing" is failure to cycle, as the inertia of the slide has no resistance upon which to act, usually, but not always, resulting in a failure to feed the following round.
Every one that I have seen has stove-piped, which tells me that the slide did not cycle enough to pick up the following round, whether or not it cocked the hammer.
I'm not saying it cannot happen, but I have never, never seen a limp-wristed pistol (whether revolver or semi-auto) rotate in the hand and have enough force to cycle the DA on the revolver or cycle the semi-auto to the point of going back into full battery and then firing because the finger was still on the trigger.
Limp-wristing a large caliber revolver has always resulted in it either falling to the ground or striking the person in the head (the weapon as a mass, NOT the expended round)...AFTER discharge.
I once saw a young girl (an adult, but young), limp-wrist a .44 magnum, which did rotate in her hand, but probably not more than 50 degrees, certainly NOT 180, and actually broke her index finger...but it DID NOT cycle the trigger as there simply was not enough force to DA the mechanism.
Interestingly, it was her non-trigger index finger that was broken. When I later questioned her, she admitted to have been holding the pistol with both hands, very loosely, with her left index finger inside the trigger guard, over her trigger finger.
I have actually tried to limp-wrist 1911's and similar...and have never had one go further than just stove-piping the expended round.
I just cannot see a semi-auto or revolver action weapon going to the point of ignition OF A SECOND ROUND, as a result of a limp-wristing shooter and in my considerably experienced opinion, it would not rotate sufficiently to discharge the round directly back at the shooter.
Do not confuse what I have said with what happens with a limp-wristed shooter of a fully auto weapon.
They can and have, with poorly trained and prepared shooters, rotated to the point of the rounds striking themselves, and most definitely striking those close to them.
If anyone has a documented reliable source of a high-caliber semi-auto or revolver rotating and firing at the shooter, I would be very interested in having that information.
And as a further aside...I am very much aware of the phenomenon of chain-firing.
It went away when we started using relatively sealed cartridges, as opposed to loading each chamber with black powder, somewhat open to the sparks generated by the firing of adjacent cylinders.
High-caliber revolvers have been know to jam as a result of the inertia of firing, causing the adjacent rounds to "hammer" back to the point of causing the round itself to stop the cylinder from rotating.
I seem to recall a gun writer (could have been John Taffin, a very knowledgeable and capable six-gunner), describing how he had a round detonate from the force of it being "hammered" against the face of the weapon, but this was an over-loaded round and even then, it did not rotate and then fire.
Very interesting situation...and I hope more information is forthcoming.
May the good Sergeant Major rest in peace and this incident does show that experience is not always what one thinks it should be, in spite of the attained position of the person.
I've met senior officers and NCO's that touched a weapon twice a year...to qualify...and the qualification requirements for AD military are ludicrous, at best.
Ricochet, perhaps, if fired too closely at steel targets. I concur it seems unlikely an Army CSM would have difficulty managing even 500SW, certainly not 50AE, from a serviceable firearm.
I did fail to press that point...SERVICEABLE...as I assumed anyone with that type of weapon would not have anything other than a serviceable one.
However, stranger things have happened.
As far as ricochets, I saw a kid popping NATO SJ 5.56's at a steel disk designed for .22 popups.
About the fifth round, a piece of steel broke loose, hit the concrete back stop, showered him with concrete shrapnel and the contents of the round sans the steel jacket and scared the hell out of him.
I think he learned a good lesson.
I’m sorry but this person was allegedly a Command Seargeant Major which minimally suggests he was not an Obama type pansy.
I shoot my 500 S & W all the time and have no problem at all and cannot imagine how recoil could have anything to do with your critical body parts all of a sudden being down range.
More likely is alcohol was involved or an insurance policy or both. Or, just a simple family dispute turned deadly.
**the qualification requirements for AD military are ludicrous**
They are indeed.
Having owned and fired three barrel lengths of this gun I have ample doubt this could happen especially to a Command Sgt Major. Even a desk warrior has had considerable shooting experience - especially a 23 year vet.
“I concur it seems unlikely an Army CSM would have difficulty managing even 500SW, certainly not 50AE, from a serviceable firearm”
Why? Because they occasionally qualify on a heavy framed 9mm? Hell anyone can do that.
More because you don't typically achieve that rank if you're careless or ignorant. Safe bet the guy has run a firing/qualification range once or twice, so basic gun handling competency, if not proficiency, is assumed.
Here is another example
http://bearingarms.com/negligent-suicide-with-a-500-smith-wesson-revolver
/http://www.wgem.com/story/23864457/2013/11/03/woman-dead-in-accidental-shooting
I don't let people shoot my 454 Casull anymore precisely because of that. The last person I let shoot it, a grown man, damn near hit himself in the face with it.
Go to about 3:20 of the video and I think you'll change your mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucjwnPRicQw
Wise man!
I wouldn’t either.
This is why, when I train people, if the gun has significant recoil, I only give them ONE cartridge in the gun until I'm confident they can handle recoil.
And start them out on .38 before moving up.
I have fired the .500 S&W...not with the T-Rex 700 grain, as I consider it to be a totally useless round, good for nothing more than making Youtube videos with, but with a 410 grain hand load.
Nothing special, in and of itself, as the powder load is the deciding factor in how much the weapon pummels your hands.
It takes much more to effectively launch a 710 grain projectile than it does a 410 grain projectile.
And that is yet another argument...for a later time, perhaps.
Again, I have not seen anything or experienced anything or heard from anyone, of an incident that would tend to support a report that a loosely held revolver, regardless of the round, would rotate and discharge a SECOND round, by virtue of the recoil, directly back at the shooter.
Granted, place that weapon in the hand of an unprepared and physically incapable person, and it would most likely either recoil into the forehead of the shooter, or it would hit the ground, with a SECOND round unfired, probably to the left of the shooter, if the shooter was right handed.
There would most likely be tissue damage and a broken bone is a high probability.
Anyone that does that intentionally to a person not otherwise qualified, is, in my humble opinion, not only a true dumb ass, but has committed assault and battery.
If you will reread that portion of what I said, that you quoted back to me, you see that I specifically stated: "ignition of a SECOND round...directly back at the shooter.".
That did not occur in the video, nor did I see a likelihood of it occurring.
Well it obviously happened to the sergeant and it has obviously happened before to girl from South America. You’re just being argumentative and a know-it-all blowhard.
Revel in your ignorance.
Have a nice day.
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