Posted on 11/24/2015 2:41:46 PM PST by markomalley
Valuable vehicles and equipment are being yanked from law enforcement agencies across the country by the Obama administration in the wake of the president’s post-Ferguson order — as sheriffs and lawmakers tell FoxNews.com the equipment is needed, and losing it could put officers and the communities they serve in danger.
“These things are useful tools and the president taking them away will put more officers in jeopardy and at risk of harm or even death. I don’t know how he can sleep at night knowing his actions will have those repercussions,” Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala., told FoxNews.com.
President Obama issued Executive Order 13688 in January after the 2014 riots in Ferguson, Mo., amid concerns about the “militarization” of the police fueling a heavy-handed response.
The controversy circled around the 1033 program, set up by the Defense Department in 1997. The program authorizes the Pentagon to send excess military equipment such as armored tracked vehicles, camouflage uniforms and weapons to local law enforcement agencies for no cost. Supporters of the program say it saves money for local agencies, strengthens those agencies and allows the U.S. to get a second use out of existing equipment.
Obama’s order set up a working group to provide recommendations on changes. The group, headed by officials at the Defense Department, Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice, then drew up a list of items that would either be controlled or prohibited entirely from being acquired via the 1033 program.
“We’ve seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there’s an occupying force, as opposed to a force that’s part of the community that’s protecting them and serving them. It can alienate and intimidate local residents, and send the wrong message. So we’re going to prohibit some equipment made for the battlefield that is not appropriate for local police departments,” Obama said in May when the report was released.
Items on the prohibited list include armored tracked vehicles, weaponized aircraft and vehicles, .50-caliber firearms and ammo, bayonets, and camouflage.
And now the feds are looking to collect.
A recall of items on the prohibited list that had been handed out via the 1033 program went into effect on Oct. 1, and law enforcement agencies have until April 1, 2016, to return them, a spokeswoman for the Pentagon’s Defense Logistics Agency told FoxNews.com.
Sheriffs using the program are outraged, saying that the main focus of the initial backlash – the armored tracked vehicles – are purely defensive vehicles that save lives in crisis situations, and double as rescue vehicles in areas with rough terrain.
Sheriff Mike Bouchard of Oakland County, Mich., told FoxNews.com of a situation in which an active shooter was holed up in his house shooting out of the windows, hitting nearby homes. Bouchard said they were able to use the vehicle to evacuate residents from houses, while also protecting police officers from being shot. During the siege, over 500 rounds of ammunition were exchanged.
“There’s no question that saved lives,” Bouchard, who is also a former senatorial and gubernatorial candidate, said. “We have letters from people we evacuated saying ‘we don’t know what you could have done to save us without that armored vehicle.‘”
Bouchard said the federal government’s crackdown on the equipment is an example of the disconnect between Obama’s claims and reality.
“His verbiage calls these tanks. These aren’t tanks. There is no offensive weaponry mounted on a tracked armored vehicle in any police department. These are big safe boxes,” he said.
The vehicles themselves aren’t banned, only those distributed under the 1033 program. However, many counties received their vehicles free-of-charge, and won’t be able to afford to buy one of their own – something they say makes their officers less safe.
“Our agency is not big, we have a total of 130 employees, and we don’t have quarter-of-a-million-dollar budget to buy one,” Sheriff Larry Amerson of Calhoun County, Ala., told FoxNews.com. “The 1033 program gave us the opportunity to get that for free, which was in my view a no brainer.”
Amerson added that in the light of the Paris terror attacks, the president’s order is even more concerning.
“As has been demonstrated in Paris, the potential for those kind of attacks is there, and the response to those attacks in the U.S. will be local law enforcement and whatever resources we have on hand now will be what we can bring to the table if that happens,” he said.
“Sheriffs are very angry. It’s a tool in our toolbox being taken away from us based on perception. When we show up with a piece of equipment to save lives it can’t always look safe and cozy,” Laney told FoxNews.com.
“Items on the prohibited list include armored tracked vehicles, weaponized aircraft and vehicles, .50-caliber firearms and ammo, bayonets, and camouflage.”
Sheriff Bo Machismo: “But you don’t *understand*, we neeeed that stuff! For like a zombie apocalypse, or a Canadian moose mounted shock troop invasion force!”
Seriously, years ago, one big city Sheriff complained that he needed a water cooled .30 caliber machine gun, “so if a terrorist hijacked a plane we could shoot it down.”
Funny how this coincides with the rise of #blacklivesmatter
130 employees would probably mean less than 50 actual officers; probably 10-15 on duty at any given time. Seriously having trouble seeing any justification for a free APC for a county agency that small.
Like I said on another thread:
“Eff em. I actually agree with Barry on this”.
As I said on another thread, the only reason this bastard would do this, is because he knows they’re going to need them before he leaves office.
I agree the police departments should never have had some of this stuff, but him taking it all away leads me to think there’s something afoot.
We both may find ourselves wrong before this is over.
ISIS probably put an order in and Obama said he’d figure out where to find the goods.
In any case, police departments have no business owning and using AFVs. If the situation is that bad, the governor needs to send in the Guard.
We are half men / hakf amazing.... We’ll be fine....
include armored tracked vehicles, weaponized aircraft and vehicles, .50-caliber firearms and ammo, bayonets, and camouflage.
*****************************************
They provide a good example for the armored vehicle, but the rest of the stuff, I’d rather they not have.
Raise taxes if you need to, but buy your own toys.
L
And half not amazing...
LOL
I’ve always believed that the only way to restore liberty is to restrict the police to exactly the same restrictions that every citizen faces in the jurisdiction they serve. IE: No sexy black weapons if those are banned, waiting periods, trigger locks, locked box transport, no open wearing of firearms if the locale forbids open carry - the list goes on and on.
Call it the anti-animal farm rule: Everyone is equal, no one is more equal than others.
Lurker, regarding local police buying their own toys, you might want to consider the following post from a related thread, particularly the last part.
”President Obama issued Executive Order 13688 in January after the 2014 riots in Ferguson, Mo., . . .”
FR: Never Accept the Premise of Your Opponent’s Argument
What we cannot expect to hear from Obama guard dog Fx News concerning Obamas executive orders dealing with military vehicles is the following.
The states have never delegated to the feds, expressly via the Constitution, the specific power to regulate, tax and spend for local police departments. And not having such power is significant for the following reason.
Regarding executive orders, ”executive orders” a term not found in the Constitution, please note the following. The Supreme Court clarified in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer that executive orders do not have the force of law unless legislatively supported by Congress - provided that such legislation is reasonably based on Congresss constitutional Article I, Section 8-llimited powers. But as previously mentioned, such powers do not include regulating local police departments.
So regardless that lawless Obama is always being scapegoated, the real problem with Obamas unpopular executive orders is the following imo. We have a corrupt, Constitution-ignoring Congress that wrongly allows lawless presidents and activist justices to unconstitutionally exercise legislative branch powers, powers that Congress does not even have with respect to local police departments..
So please bear in mind that patriots need to support Trump and Cruz with a new, state sovereignty-respecting Congress.
Getting back to local police departments, they should arguably refuse to give up their federally funded military vehicles by claiming that they are recovering state / local revenues which were stolen from the states through unconstitutional federal taxes.
”Congress is not empowered to tax for those purposes which are within the exclusive province of the States.” - Justice John Marshall, Gibbons v. Ogden, 1824.
You misunderstood me. If the Sheriff wants these toys he can go to the taxpayers of his jurisdiction and explain the need and ask his constituents to paQy for them with a local tax levy.
No Fed money needed.
That’s the Constitutional way to do things.
L
There were rural counties with populations under 100,000 getting apc’s and sticking taxpayers with the bill for maintaining them.
Can’t believe I’m saying this but good for Obama.
This one backfired on Bambi.
He intended to use them to keep us “bitter clingers” in line, and threaten Marshal Law.
When he discovered they were being used to keep the BLM crowds in control, he changed his tune.
Perhaps; but even Obastards shock troops have to get OUT of their AFV in order to enforce the rat bastards illegal “EXECUTIVE ORDERS”.
Lurker, the feds have no constitutional authority to tax and spend for military police vehicles for local police departments imo. So the federal funding used to pay for such vehicles was arguably local / state revenues which corrupt Congress stole from the states by means of unconstitutional federal taxes, taxes which Congress cannot justify under its constitutional Article I, Section 8-limited powers.
”Congress is not empowered to tax for those purposes which are within the exclusive province of the States.” - Justice John Marshall, Gibbons v. Ogden, 1824.
Again, local police departments could hold on to the military police vehicles imo, such vehicles arguably paid for by unconstitutional federal taxes, the local police departments claiming that they are attempting to recover stolen local / state tax revenues.
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