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Illinois and New Hampshire Agree Cruz Is A Natural Born Citizen
American Thinker ^ | February 5, 2016 | Daniel John Sobieski

Posted on 02/05/2016 6:38:54 AM PST by raptor22

Donald Trump, his aura of invincibility shattered by Iowa caucus voters he once called “stupid,” is throwing a tantrum these days, convinced that Ted Cruz “cheated” and continues to maintain the untenable proposition that in any event he is a not eligible to be President of the United States.

Cruz did not cheat in Iowa. Cruz supporters may have indeed cited to supporters of Dr. Ben Carson CNN news reports and tweets that Carson was skipping New Hampshire and South Carolina, so draw your own conclusions, but where were the Carson president captains to shepherd their flock?

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Canada; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Politics/Elections; US: Illinois; US: New Hampshire
KEYWORDS: amthinker; bencarson; citizen; cruz; cruz2016; cruzcrew; donaldtrump; dumptrump; eligibility; iowacaucus; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; nevertrump; tedcruz; trump
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1 posted on 02/05/2016 6:38:54 AM PST by raptor22
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

TED CRUZ NATURAL BORN CITIZEN PING


2 posted on 02/05/2016 6:39:27 AM PST by raptor22 (Follow me on Twitter @gerfingerpoken or facebook.com/danielsobieski)
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To: raptor22
NH election board made no finding, it punted.

IL election board found that it was qualified and competent to rule on the substance, then summarily picked one side without addressing the argument in opposition. A "fingers in the ears" ruling, lalalalalalalala.

3 posted on 02/05/2016 6:41:47 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: raptor22
Illinois and New Hampshire Agree Cruz Is A Natural Born Citizen

So does Canada.

(Wish TC would publicly address this and get it settled in people's minds once and for all. Cannot understand why he doesn't.)
4 posted on 02/05/2016 6:41:51 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: raptor22

Well they agree Obama was too.

Now are you going to guarantee that a court will?


5 posted on 02/05/2016 6:42:10 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: Resettozero

This is Trump’s point, it would have to go through all these courts until it’s settled. No state court would be the final word if the Dems sue.


6 posted on 02/05/2016 6:43:41 AM PST by Kenny (RED)
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To: Resettozero
(Wish TC would publicly address this and get it settled in people's minds once and for all. Cannot understand why he doesn't.)

Yes, you can.

7 posted on 02/05/2016 6:48:06 AM PST by ripnbang ("An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man a subject)
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To: raptor22

The issue will be like a mobius strip, it will go around but be on the other side.

Every state will say he is ok to elect him but if he wins every state will then try to remove him.


8 posted on 02/05/2016 6:48:32 AM PST by Daniel Ramsey (You don't have to like Trump, his enemies certainly don't.)
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To: raptor22

All that matters is what the Federal judge Alan Grayson appeals to thinks the day after Ted is elected.


9 posted on 02/05/2016 6:49:59 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Grampa Dave; granite; GreenFreeper; grjr21; I got the rope; IchBinEinBerliner; jaredt112; JayB; ...

TED CRUZ NATURAL BORN CITIZEN PING


10 posted on 02/05/2016 6:50:01 AM PST by raptor22 (Follow me on Twitter @gerfingerpoken or facebook.com/danielsobieski)
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To: Kenny

And when they do, it will be in federal court and all it will take is one judge to say the issue has merit.


11 posted on 02/05/2016 6:51:12 AM PST by bigbob ("Victorious warriors win first and then go to war" Sun Tzu.)
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To: raptor22

How did I get on this ping list?


12 posted on 02/05/2016 6:53:05 AM PST by PJBankard (It is the spirit of the men who leads that gains the victory. - Gen. George Patton)
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To: raptor22
Why doesn't Senator Cruz just do what Senator McCain did and have the Senate declare him eligible?

Oh wait, everyone in the Senate hates him. That's why.

13 posted on 02/05/2016 6:53:06 AM PST by Drew68
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To: VanDeKoik

If forced to make a decision, the courts will find for the new definition, born a citizen, even if only on one’s mother’s side, making every anchor baby and Winston Churchill eligible.

They already allowed an usurper to take office, they will cover their own posteriors.

Born here of citzen parents.
One is NATURALLY a US citizen when one cannot be anything else.
Natural born citizen.


14 posted on 02/05/2016 6:53:15 AM PST by Lurkinanloomin (Know Islam, No Peace - No Islam, Know Peace)
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To: raptor22
but where were the Carson president captains to shepherd their flock?

Not ready for prime time, clearly.

They seem to be operating in the world of the daily newspaper and Walter Cronkite.

15 posted on 02/05/2016 6:53:26 AM PST by don-o (He will not share His glory. And He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the Name of the Lord forever!)
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To: ripnbang
Yes, you can.

Are you intimating Ted Cruz cannot prove he meets the Constitutional requirements to be President of the United States?

I don't know what the deal is on this and can only surmise.
16 posted on 02/05/2016 6:54:18 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: Still Thinking; StopGlobalWhining; Straight Vermonter; Tampa Caver; TChris; ...

CRUZ NATURAL BORN CITIZEN PING


17 posted on 02/05/2016 6:56:18 AM PST by raptor22 (Follow me on Twitter @gerfingerpoken or facebook.com/danielsobieski)
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To: Lurkinanloomin

That sort of ruling would create ramifications in thousands of deportation cases.


18 posted on 02/05/2016 6:56:36 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Drew68

The purpose of that fig leaf was to deflect from the fact that BOTH parties want to get rid of the natural born citizen requirement and Obama’s obvious ineligibility using the less obvious situation for McCain as cover.

The GOP has many more ineligible ccandidates on the bench, Cruz, Rubio, Jindal, Haley.


19 posted on 02/05/2016 6:56:51 AM PST by Lurkinanloomin (Know Islam, No Peace - No Islam, Know Peace)
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To: don-o
but where were the Carson president captains to shepherd their flock?

They obviously must have done their job as no one has produced a Carson supporter who changed his/her vote.

20 posted on 02/05/2016 7:00:28 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Cboldt

My guess is they will dodge it if at all possible.


21 posted on 02/05/2016 7:01:48 AM PST by Lurkinanloomin (Know Islam, No Peace - No Islam, Know Peace)
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To: raptor22
"Cruz did not cheat in Iowa."

.. and TRUMP does not exaggerate.

22 posted on 02/05/2016 7:02:18 AM PST by LibFreeUSA
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To: raptor22; All

Funny how the constitution says only a NBC can be president, but earlier it gives the power to decide who is and who is not natural born or not to the congress. Hence the natrilization laws, where congress made the determination.


23 posted on 02/05/2016 7:02:54 AM PST by PA-LU Student (https://www.tedcruz.org/l/ducking-donald/)
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To: PA-LU Student

No. Congress does not have the authority to decide who is or isn’t an NBC. Naturalization laws only make naturalized citizens.


24 posted on 02/05/2016 7:04:26 AM PST by PJBankard (It is the spirit of the men who leads that gains the victory. - Gen. George Patton)
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To: raptor22

Proclamation Conferring Honorary U.S. Citizenship on Sir Winston Churchill
delivered 9 April 1963, Rose Garden, The White House, Washington, D.C.

Why is this mentioned? Well, Sir Winston Churchill’s Mother was 100% American. Yet, he was born in the UK. Sound familiar.. And yet, the US Gov’t and Pres. JF Kennedy decided it would be a GREAT Honor to grant “Honorary” citizenship to him....... Get that, HONORARY! However, I’ll top this Cruz and offer Bibi Netanyahu.
Cheltenham High School, In Pa. Abington Township , Pa. Bibi grew up in the US. So, others can play the NBC game too is all I suggest!


25 posted on 02/05/2016 7:06:59 AM PST by WorksinKOP
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To: Lurkinanloomin
-- My guess is they will dodge it if at all possible. --

Yep. SCOTUS will continue to evade the question.

26 posted on 02/05/2016 7:07:22 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: raptor22

Of course, it’s obvious that Cruz is NBC.

Just read through any of the dozens of threads which address the topic. In every one, you will see that FReepers come to an agreement after some spirited but rational and thoughtful debate. /s


27 posted on 02/05/2016 7:07:46 AM PST by Fresh Wind (Falcon 105)
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To: raptor22
There is a lot of good research and commentary at Publius Huldah's blog but I recommend reading "Natural Born Citizen" and Coverture. first.

The article is about a third of the way down the page.

28 posted on 02/05/2016 7:08:12 AM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: raptor22
...but where were the Carson president captains to shepherd their flock?

Blame the victim.

29 posted on 02/05/2016 7:11:16 AM PST by Fresh Wind (Falcon 105)
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To: Resettozero

I can’t, however, it is the 800 lb. gorilla in the room that will remain until answered; fair, accurate, or not.


30 posted on 02/05/2016 7:12:59 AM PST by ripnbang ("An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man a subject)
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To: Drew68

Plus, Cruz’s case is much different than McCain’s case. Much weaker that is.


31 posted on 02/05/2016 7:15:16 AM PST by RC one ("...all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens" US v. WKA)
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To: Kenny
Also agreeing with Cruz’s eligibility are two constitutional scholars

Snort, Cruz the Canadian and Obama the Kenyan are constitutional scholars. I'd trust my US born dog's interpretation of the US Constitution over either of them.

Yes, the Dems will sue. Hillary will have standing if Cruz is the nominee. She'll wait until the last minute before she plays the "standing" card and tie up the vote for so long that the Kenyan will get his 10 years he once said he'd have. The Supremes will eventually declare the Canadian ineligible and crown Her Royal Hineyness at which time she'll appoint the Kenyan to SCOTUS. Don't forget, she and the Kenyan were 2 of the 6 member committee for SR511 (McCain's NBC vetting) and agreed in voice and writing that NBC equaled born on US soil and of two US citizen parents. Guaranteed 2016 has been in the works since 2008.

32 posted on 02/05/2016 7:15:44 AM PST by bgill (CDC site, "We still do not know exactly how people are infected with Ebola")
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To: WorksinKOP; raptor22
Proclamation Conferring Honorary U.S. Citizenship on Sir Winston Churchill

There was no dual citizenship in the United States at the time and Horary Citizenship grants no rights of citizenship.

33 posted on 02/05/2016 7:20:44 AM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: PA-LU Student

A Natural Born citizen can not be created by an act of naturalization. Congress has the authority to naturalize. Any person so naturalized by congress is immediately not a natural born citizen and, thereby, ineligible to be POTUS. A natural born citizen is created by nature. Nature has determined that Ted Cruz is a natural born citizen of Canada. Congress determined that he is a naturalized citizen of the United States.


34 posted on 02/05/2016 7:22:59 AM PST by RC one ("...all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens" US v. WKA)
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To: Resettozero

I hoped Cruz could resolve this too. All he does is make jokes.

I tried to vindicate him myself but came to the opposite conclusion even though it became clear that the courts would ‘gavel jockey’ on his bahalf due to fake 14 Amendment penumbras [or ‘fumes of interpretation’ if you want to think in terms of gasoline.]

14th Amendment does nothing to redefine natural born status ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3384380/posts?page=68#68

More thorough vetting in followup to this lengthy defense ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3386507/posts?page=125#125

Quick Notes on Eligibility

[I’m no lawyer, but even lawyers have trouble with this — it’s a specialty topic.]

Two Ways of Looking at This

One Way: Original intent. No matter what original intent you look at, Cruz is not eligible.

— Some say ‘must have mother and father — US citizens when overseas.

— Some say ‘must at least have US father when overseas’

— Some insist you must be born in the US.


35 posted on 02/05/2016 7:31:49 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (Trump is at his best going after anti-patriots. Not patriots.)
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To: Cboldt
Yep. SCOTUS will continue to evade the question.

Can they if lower Fed courts rule against Ted?


36 posted on 02/05/2016 7:34:12 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: RC one

Nope - no naturalization process was need for TC to be a citizen = NBC.


37 posted on 02/05/2016 7:39:29 AM PST by corkoman
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To: Buckeye McFrog
-- Can they if lower Fed courts rule against Ted? --

Yes, although there is a good argument that the loser below can appeal directly to SCOTUS from an adverse ruling in the District Court, bypassing the Circuit Court of Appeals. SCOTUS jurisdiction is set out in the constitution, and nearly all constitutional questions are taken purely on volition of SCOTUS, as the loser below can exercise his right to appeal in a Circuit Court.

See Wikipedia on Obama eligibility cases, in particular the part referring to the Berg v. Obama case.

38 posted on 02/05/2016 7:41:56 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: bgill

My concern as well.

Besides, no matter what the courts say, Obama’s questionable NB status already proves that court rulings never end the controversy.

Imagine the alphabet channels interviewing Professor Tribe week-after-week and then Professor ‘Also-Me’.

People love the Constitution so much that they scream bloody murder over ‘privacy rights’ for muslims and mosques. Half the nation could be killed overnight by WMDs, but so what? ‘We stand by the Constitution.’ They don’t even support a constitutional amendment to correct that danger. The Constitution is that sacred to many people.

To think they would ignore constitutional arguments to support Cruz? Not rational.

I would vote for Cruz in the General Election even though I know he’s ineligible. But I’m a patriot first. Many people are not.


39 posted on 02/05/2016 7:42:40 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (Trump is at his best going after anti-patriots. Not patriots.)
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To: corkoman
His citizenship is derived from the will of the state. He is not a NBC.

It is the very essence of the condition of a natural born citizen, of one who is a member of the state by birth within and under it, that his rights are not derived from the mere will of the state.

The New Englander, Vol. III, pg. 434 (1845)

40 posted on 02/05/2016 7:50:14 AM PST by RC one ("...all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens" US v. WKA)
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To: Pontiac

The point is Sir Winston was NOT a citizen. No different then Mr. Cruz. No different at all.


41 posted on 02/05/2016 7:51:51 AM PST by WorksinKOP
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To: PJBankard
How did I get on this ping list?

Don't know but judging by your #24, glad to have your clear thinking.

NBC equals born in a foreign country to a foreign parent clearly defies the rules of logic doesn't it?

42 posted on 02/05/2016 7:52:18 AM PST by frog in a pot (That NBC's can be born in a foreign country to a foreign parent delights the one-world crowd.)
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To: corkoman
Nope - no naturalization process was need for TC to be a citizen = NBC

So currently, the children of illegal aliens born in the U.S. are considered citizens.

Do you agree that illegal aliens have the right to pick who our citizenry will be?

They go through no "naturalization process". They just present the BC to the State Department and voila...they is The Americans.

Do you believe that?

The central question about being a Natural Born Citizen is loyalty. The European Monarchs routinely intermarried, swapped thrones and pranced around Europe making sure that only their gang would be in power...no matter whose country it was.

The Founders knew about that and made sure to prevent it.

If someone born elsewhere with one non-citizen parent is supposedly a "natural born citizen", why would Madison have bothered to carve out a special class within the Constitution? Such a person fits the profile exactly of a child born to a head of state who marries a foreigner in a marriage of political convenience.

You can make the argument that the shoe doesn't fit in Ted's case. His father at least became a citizen, but he let 40 years pass before he did so. It appears that his heart is still in Cuba, and with the Spanish Main. But he appreciates what the U.S. did for him, so he finally swore in.

That's nice. But uh, that's the sort of watered down loyalty that um...we're concerned with.

Ted will make a fabulous Senate Majority Leader. The schemer that he replaces will skulk off to his Kentucky redoubt to enjoy the millions he extorted. Good Riddance.

But we have millions of people still here who have only distant connections to foreign lands and peoples, and their loyalty is not under question.

For those legal eagles here, the point is this: a true NBC is a citizen both by Jus Soli and Jus Sanguinis. As we all know, Vattel took that a step further and said that the Jus Soli part had to include both parents.

It's not a heavy constraint. In Obama's case, it was violated, and we see in his racist xenophilia the consequences: he hates us, and imports those who he is really loyal to, while surrendering to their cruel overlords (think "Iran").

43 posted on 02/05/2016 7:55:13 AM PST by Regulator
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
A recent counter to Valentine's "I argue that would include the right of women to bequeath their citizenship upon their children in the same manner and to the same extent as men" is Tuan Anh Nguyen v. INS, 533 U.S. 53 (2001).

The difference between men and women in relation to the birth process is a real one, and the principle of equal protection does not forbid Congress to address the problem at hand in a manner specific to each gender.

If one adopts the dissent's argument, the best Nguyen could have obtained was naturalized citizenship. Valentine starts with a kook premise, then just builds layers of kookery on top of his original flawed analysis and conclusion.

44 posted on 02/05/2016 7:59:55 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: WorksinKOP
The point is Sir Winston was NOT a citizen. No different then Mr. Cruz. No different at all.

Citizenship is questionable. Natural Born Citizenship is not. Cruz (and Rubio) are not Natural Born Citizens.

45 posted on 02/05/2016 8:01:36 AM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: corkoman

His citizenship was granted through statute by the Naturalization Laws. His mother had to submit a CRBA, a naturalization process, to claim his US citizenship at birth.

Citizenship granted by Naturalization Laws = Naturalized Citizen


46 posted on 02/05/2016 8:05:25 AM PST by PJBankard (It is the spirit of the men who leads that gains the victory. - Gen. George Patton)
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To: Pontiac

Have you not noticed, we agree :0)


47 posted on 02/05/2016 8:06:40 AM PST by WorksinKOP
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To: Resettozero
As a lawyer he knows not to ask questions where the answer won't support his case......
48 posted on 02/05/2016 8:11:44 AM PST by Forty-Niner
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To: Cboldt
While I agree with Justice Clarence Thomas that it's a clear instance of Judicial cowardice, I believe that SCOTUS was reluctant to de-thrown a sitting President, especially one who was a historical man of color. The Republicans had numerous opportunities prior to Obama's swearing in to prevent it on Article II grounds, but failed to do so. At the very least John McCain should have objected before any votes were cast.
49 posted on 02/05/2016 8:24:54 AM PST by Forty-Niner
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To: raptor22
The only people who are automatically a nation's citizens are those born in country to citizen parents.

Such a person is a citizen of that, and only that, country without question, since there are no other options based upon his/her birth.

The term "Natural Born Citizen" is used to describe this type of exclusive citizenship.

If that is not the case, then the circumstances of that person's birth are covered under the Naturalization laws and that person is a naturalized citizen.

As Ted Cruz's birth circumstances are covered under the Naturalization laws, therefore Ted Cruz is a naturalized American citizen, not a natural born American citizen.

As a "check your work" review, Ted has one or more options for his citizenship in addition to that of his place of birth.

A natural born citizen has no options or additional choices for citizenship other than place of birth.

Easy!

50 posted on 02/05/2016 8:25:38 AM PST by GBA (Here in the matrix, life is but a dream.)
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