Posted on 08/04/2016 4:15:52 PM PDT by Nachum
The Army transitioned to “all ranks” clubs over a decade ago. DUI offenses and feminists killed the club system.
Many long conversations about this trend with retired folks. No one wants to drink on base and risk a DUI. There’s no desire for officers to network and solve problems over a beer.
I can tell you for certain the split at Lajes field was rigorously enforced in 1998.
So funny. I'm not sure that's true - but it may be.
I collect old etiquette books and I've found manners to be just fine in enlisted clubs, no better or worse than officers clubs.
Now there were a few clubs - I hear - where British marines may have corrupted our Marines and maybe a few melees have occurred in the early hours of the morning. It may have happened after one of them bragged about stirring their hot coffee with ...
My etiquette books have no information on *that* topic but I am sure our Marines have better manners than British marines. And they're tougher!
That's the difference between then and now. People in today's military don't expect to die or have to order other men to their certain deaths. The warrior ethos is gone, having been replaced by professional technician. The man next to you is not your brother. He (or she) is your coworker. Case in point, look at the behavior of those Riverines captured by Iran a few months back. They burst into tears!
It's not really anyone's fault. Today, one can enjoy a 20 year career without ever seeing a man die, without ever having to make a life or death decision, without ever being in a fight. The navy hasn't really gone to blows with another navy in over 70 years. We haven't really been doing much of anything except babysitting Arabs for the past couple of decades.
This softness has given us the luxury to engage in social experiments.
Good, that will free up a few dollars for an Obamaphone or two...
A welfare economy can’t afford two clubs for it’s military bases.
Active Duty ping.
I’ve been to some great AF clubs in my time. Everyone knows the AF has the best clubs because we build the club when the runway is half completed. Heard that joke for years. Just about any fighter base had a great club and many had stag bars at one time. They also had the largest pool tables in the world to play ‘Crub’. I won’t try to explain the rules but many folks have been injured playing this game. For women the ‘snake pit’ at Maxwell AFB, AL was always exceptional. Other great bars was MacDill, Luke and especially Nellis.
I always preferred the Navy bowling alley’s anyway. Drink, bowl and sliders.
Good times.
When we closed Ent AFB in Colorado Springs and turned it over to the United States Olympics Committee, I had to cut the grass in front of the Officers club. The problem was there was two feet of snow on it.
I had a gas-powered push mower; it would go about two feet and stall. I complained to a Chief, who told me nobody asked for my opinion, and shut up and get the grass cut asap.
No, they have been losing money and members for years. Have to do something.
Even in the 90s the base cops would patrol base clubs looking to bust their own. Several senior officers would make their rounds at the o club to make sure no one was busting the bottle to throttle rule. People had enough. It is sad to go into an o club today....if a base has one.
That’s not new and it has nothing to do with inclusion. They’ve had trouble making money for years.
The fun is being taken out of everything
That's what democrats do.
True.
As a soldier who spent many years as an NCO and many years as a commissioned officer, it really doesn’t matter . . . so long as they do not fraternize (personal socializing) in depth.
There is a reason for non-fraternization regulations and it has to do with maintaining discipline in peacetime and effectiveness in combat. Officers should not fraternize too loosely with the enlisted ranks and senior NCOs should not fraternize too loosely with junior enlisted.
The unofficial rule was one rank above and one rank below for fraternization.
You have to be free to make decisions on whom to promote due to merit, whom to demote due to demerit, and whom to send on the most crucial missions because they’re the best fit for that particular mission. As a combat leader, you can’t NOT send someone on a crucial, extremely dangerous mission because the best fit is your close friend who is several grades below you. Send the lesser-qualified person in order to protect your friend, and you fail to accomplish the mission, and perhaps EVERYONE dies.
And in peacetime, you can’t play favorites when your junior-ranking pals are the malingerers, slobs, or poor performers. You must be able to wield the hammer of discipline properly and justly in all cases.
The aloofness of command is there for a reason.
Nevertheless, the military club system had become extremely unprofitable and is not financially self-sustaining.
The fact is that it is an officers club, and there is a reason for this.
When I was in the officers went elsewhere and we went elsewhere, and you know what it worked.
I've been an officer for 12 years, and I've only seen one O-Club at Fort Benning when I was a brand new Lieutenant. None of us could really figure out why we should pay dues to such a place, or what the point of it was. The more senior officers weren't really able to explain it either.
“When the “Let it ALL hang out” people take over,
THERE ISN’T ANY FUN ANY MORE.”
Too true. Worked for Barclays in Wilmington for a while. Corporate office, couple thousand people, mostly in information technology and marketing. There was also a customer call center on one of the floors.
At the summer picnic you could tell who worked the call center by their inappropriate clothes and excessive consumption. The following year’s party was alcohol-free, and a dress code was included in the invitation.
Mixed company seldom makes for a good party, for either group.
I agree there are some out there that are split. But because of finances and more open rank affiliations, the split clubs are disappearing. Lajes Field only houses about 1000 airmen on the north tip, and the surrounding population is less than 25,000 people in two towns. There is no tourism resorts or even a major airline going in to the islands. Let’s face it, there is no outside entertainment. So the clubs on the base are where the military members can go. But I can promise you that a lot of remote assignment clubs are also co-mingled. I was stationed at Galena in Alaska, same surrounding situation, and they were co-mingled in the late 80’s. Depends on the needs and the value of funds being thrown in the pile. And the 65th is providing maintenance for over 20 different countries so they have to be aware of the needs of the other nations attitudes about rank and control. So they are a little more traditional.
red
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