The Dying Middle Class (Largest Theft in History)

ZeroHedge ^ | 9/27/16 | Tyler Durden

[Garth Tater]

No. You seem to be strangely fixated on this "deflationary environment." I've already shown you how holding on to your money would be better than loaning it out at a negative rate and you have had no response to this. I've explained in post #51 why WE will have negative interest rates and THEY will have positive interest rates. Negative interest rates have nothing to do with a deflationary environment and trying to justify it by saying it is PART of an overall transaction that includes the purchase of an asset also does not explain WHY we will have negative interest rates. I explained this to you in #51.

Money is created out of nothing (I can explain this to you if you wish, but I hope you already know it) and since it is created out of nothing it is NOT subject to the usual economic rule of supply and demand where a price is set - that price in a market for money is the interest rate. They can supply all the money they desire at ANY interest rate they desire in the snap of the fingers or the press of a computer keyboard. Negative interest rates are a requirement for their game to go on - not a result of market forces or a deflationary environment.

[Alberta's Child]

... these political leaders, they are governing this country exactly the way the voters want it governed.

Maybe I should have been more clear.

In this case, I was referring in particular to the government propping up an unsustainable system that will inevitably collapse -- not each and every political decision that is made in a governing body.

But don't overlook the fact that voters may sing a very different tune as reality starts to hit home. I had a conversation on this very subject with a business associate who was lamenting the fact that so many people approaching retirement age in our area can't sell their homes. The reason they can't sell their homes is that the prices of these homes have been propped up through the inflation of a massive asset bubble -- which simply means that the next generation can't even afford to live here anymore. Once this becomes clear, I can guarantee you that the typical person in my circle of associates who is now a strong advocate of stemming the flood of illegal aliens will have no qualms about selling his $800,000 home to an extended family of 25 Latin Americans that is brought here illegally by his own government.

[Alberta's Child]

I know all of that. What exactly is the government’s incentive to eliminate cash?

[Alberta's Child]

Looks like an interesting article.

I don't have a WSJ subscription, so I can't read it.

[Garth Tater]

That WSJ article might be a good one but I'm not signing up to read it LOL

I read the WSJ religiously for 15 years until they obfuscated their reasons for supporting the 1986 Simpson-Mazzoli Immigration Act. They support big business and big business wants unfettered immigration to keep wage rates down. I'm an American, I want immigration to be controlled for OUR betterment, not big business's. I cancelled my subscription then and haven't read it since. Investors Business Daily is much better but even they need to be watched closely lest they slip in some globalist bullsh!t on you.

Would you care to give us an overview of the article?

[ExSES]

I know all of that. What exactly is the government’s incentive to eliminate cash?

CONTROL! Eliminate cash and you can track ALL transactions for whatever reason! Only Barter will remain as a free exchange between individuals (though regulations specify that many such "Barters" must be reported, even under current IRS regulations!)

[cherry]

we are not investor types...we went into the financial people at different places and got into this mutual fund or that one....I can't say that any thing has made a great deal of money...

mostly, we had hoped for a simply 5% return on money in the bank and other items...

just a mere 5% plus continued savings and we'd be millionaires....

fat chance...it was never to be allowed....

[dragnet2]

these political leaders, they are governing this country exactly the way the voters want it governed.

OK, so you agree this is a very inaccurate statement?

And I can assure you millions of voters across the state and nation have been screaming, begging, voting, petitioning and attempting to seek relief from this epic decades long government sponsored invasion on Americans.

To be honest, I find it a bit offense when someone like you points a finger at all these millions of folks and tells them "This is exactly how you want it".

[Beatthedrum]

No doubt political motivations have helped to shape Fed policy. But a study of the 2008 financial crisis clearly established the main reason for the collapse was the bundling of worthless mortgages and the banks roles in marketing them as investment vehicles - with the help of the rating agencies lying about the quality of the CDOs and other derivatives based on the mortgages.

There were literally millions of mortgages with no collateral support, regardless of the interest rates.

[Pelham]

“Who owns the Federal Reserve and why are we not allowed to know their names? “

The Fed is a compulsory organization made up of nationally chartered banks. They have to belong to it as a requirement for doing business as a bank. Member banks pay reserves into the Fed but that doesn’t confer ownership of any sort. Paying reserves is an obligation, not a privilege.

The Fed does have enormous assets the majority of which are Treasury debt used to adjust the monetary base. All Fed income above that required for salaries and basic expenses goes directly back to the Treasury. The United States Treasury is the closest thing to who “owns” the Fed. The Fed was created by an act of Congress to replace what JP Morgan had been doing privately in the years prior.

[Alberta's Child]

The problem there is that it becomes more and more difficult to control anything like that as technology accelerates changes in all walks of life.

We now live in an environment where "virtual currencies" have existed for some time. It's really not hard to envision a scenario where people conduct business using something other than U.S. dollars as their medium of exchange. Barter is just one option among many.

[RFEngineer]

“Interest rates generally reflect underlying economic conditions”

Good grief. This used to be the case. It hasn’t been for at least 8 years.

[Alberta's Child]

Here's a fascinating article that relates to this:

Suds for Drugs

It describes how Tide laundry detergent became a currency in the drug trade in many U.S. cities. Amazing.

[Garth Tater]

but it could absolutely find itself in a position where the "market rate" for a loan is negative (i.e., the bank hypothetically has to pay someone to borrow money). In this case, the bank simply doesn't underwrite any loans.

You've misunderstood. The banks will charge positive interest rates for loans that THEY make and will be happy to underwrite loans for creditworthy borrowers. The negative interest rates will be on money that YOU loan them. Every nickel you put in a bank nowadays is a loan to that bank. That is what the term "bank bail-in" refers to. The laws authorizing bank bail-ins have already been signed here in this country. The abolition of cash is on its way.

[Alberta's Child]

Sure it has. You may not be aware of all the underlying economic conditions, but they are out there and they are influencing interest rates.

I have to head off to bed, but I'll follow up on this tomorrow morning if you can cite specific cases (in government and/or private transactions) where interest rates have detached from any economic influences.

[Garth Tater]

I know all of that. What exactly is the government’s incentive to eliminate cash?

They need negative rates on the money that we loan them (put in their banks) in order to keep their ponzi scheme of ever increasing debt running. In order to implement negative interest rates on our bank accounts they have to outlaw cash or we will simply take our money out of their banks and keep it safe at home where it will not be subject to a negative interest rate.

An added benefit of a cash-free society in their eyes is that EVERY transaction we make will have to go through their financial network and they will know every thing we buy and every place we go.

Cash is freedom. No cash = no freedom.

[Alberta's Child]

OK, so you agree this is a very inaccurate statement?

Would you please just go back and read my comment in the context of this thread? This thread is based on an article about the Fed's strategy of suppressing interest rates, and as far as I know that article makes no mention of illegal aliens, invasions, national borders, crime, terrorism, FCC regulations, the NFL season, or anything else that might be on your mind.

At no time have I ever suggested that every single decision made by our government reflects the wishes of every single American -- or even a majority of them.

My point was that our economy is a house of cards because our political leadership did exactly what people in this country (or at least enough of them to influence political outcomes) wanted them to do by feeding our delusional ideas about funding unlimited entitlements in perpetuity.

To be honest, I find it a bit offense when someone like you points a finger at all these millions of folks and tells them "This is exactly how you want it.

Welcome to a modern democracy. Get over it. We didn't give a damn what individual Germans thought when we bombed their cities to the ground in World War II, did we?

[Pelham]

I don’t subscribe and I can see it. I think this just requires signing up.

[Garth Tater]

The Federal Reserve Act was slipped through a nearly deserted Congress on Christmas Eve 1913. Read "The Creature from Jekyll Island" for a good history of the shameful passage of this act.

Member banks pay reserves into the Fed but that doesn’t confer ownership of any sort. Paying reserves is an obligation, not a privilege.

That is correct. It does not confer ownership of any sort. So my question remains, who owns the Federal Reserve and why are we not allowed to know their names?

One more question. In over one hundred years, why has the Federal Reserve never been fully audited?

[bkopto]

so we could be looking at the end of the Republic.

The republic was lost a long time ago; it exists as a formality only. It would be better for the people if the US broke up into several different regions. The statists won't fight - they are cowards.