Posted on 03/27/2017 3:51:37 AM PDT by sheikdetailfeather
“I am trying hard not to blame Trump...”
No problem, I’ll do it...
I blame Trump. Unless someone has not read or seen any news or Tweets, then it would seem quite silly to suggest he has no blame for the debacle.
I blame Ryan more, of course. But I expected this type of fuster cluck from him. I don’t believe the worst conspiracy / evil descriptions of Ryan. He actually came to DC as the Donald Trump of entitlement reform and was a conservative star for a time. But he soured and totally wimped through the Obama years.
He suffers a non-helpful form of pride. The more he learns how things work, the more he believes he is smart enough to design ridiculously complex plans to save us from debt maybe someday if perhaps the stars align and nobody calls us mean or something.
The only thing I blame HFC for is supporting Ryan earlier. And, no, I’m not sure how many knees that took.
To some of the Trump fans who seem, to me anyway, a bit overly confident in his fabled abilities I would caution this: Ryan was Trump a decade or so ago - the guy who came to town to fix our biggest problem. Which was near universally considered federal entitlements and debt. Regardless where his heart lies today, he failed back then and became part of the establishment machine.
Trump is only two months in and he already favored this horrible bill which everyone on FreeRepublic would have pronounced as unconstitutional if Nancy P had proposed it. He could become Ryanized in record time if he does not do better on his signature issue - immigration - than he did with his part of HC reform.
Certainly, Trump is at this point behaving like a promise-keeper regarding immigration. I don’t know what he really believes, but phase 1 of the HC plan certainly does not qualify as promise-keeping on the Obamacare issue.
If you are not a conservative I have nothing to say to you. You are no better that a democrat...anything to get the win. When single payer hits don’t complain you voted for it!
Of course Trump shares the blame...any one who read this idiot bill would recognize what it was. Trump let it slip when he was running that he is for single payer. Exactly what this sh!t sandwich would have led to and what he will compromise with the democrats for....that’s what they wanted when they passed Obamacare.
“Well, did Cruz win enough primaries to get the nomination or didn’t he?”
I would question the suggestion that none of the Republican candidates, other than Trump, could have beaten Hillary.
She was a terrible candidate who ran an incompetent campaign. I think most of the R’s would have done as well or better than Trump.
I very much believe the worst conspiracy and evil description of lying Ryan.. He never once balked at any price tag Obama put forth. Lying Ryan serves a different master, and has yet to fulfill his oath of office... protect and defend our Constitution.
Apparently most Republicans would like to be voted out of office in 2018.
So be it!
But what I did say was that if Cruz (that's Cruz I'm taking about here, not the other Republican candidates) couldn't even garner enough votes in his own party's primaries to win his own party's nomination, why would one expect him to be able to beat the candidate from the other party in the general?
I agree that Hillary "was a terrible candidate who ran an incompetent campaign". Most people could see that, even some of her own supporters. But those supporters voted for her anyway because she had the big D after her name.
And as for your woulda' coulda', shoulda' notion that most of the Rs "....would have done as well or better than Trump....", you do know Trump won right?
Nobody else was getting any traction except Trump. The other GOP candidates were getting mashed faster than the love bugs on my windshield going down the highway 90 mph. None of them would have taken it to Hillary like Trump did. Trump's got "huevos de latón grandes".
Trump won and he won big. You can't get any "better" than winning...
Vets supported him, and he used wounded warriors as campaign props. So much for his much-vaunted "loyalty".
And there you go, calling me names right off the bat. "....You are no better than a democrat (eeew, that left a mark!) ...anything to win....".
I voted for Trump because he was the best candidate for the job right now. I didn't just vote for him to get the win. Most folks thought he didn't have a chance to win anyway so that argument lies in fallow ground.
But apparently you voted for him just for the win yourself, when in your previous comment, you said, and I quote, "I voted for Trump because I had no choice but he is a rhino [sic]....". That should be RINO. You accuse me of voting for Trump just to win right after you claim to have voted for Trump because you had no choice. Huh? Why didn't you vote for Cruz and stick to your "principles"? Not exactly well thought out there.
And since you're having trouble keeping up and throwing out these non sequitur remarks around, I will tell you that my wife and I both have had single payor health care our entire adult lives. First, while on active duty in the military. And since our retirements, the VA. Both are single payor. You struck out again guy.
And as far as your snarky response, "....If you are not a conservative I have nothing to say to you....", I think you've stuck you foot in you mouth unnecessarily a couple of times already, so lets call it a day. :-)
And Trump sure won every single state where Democrats could cross over and vote in the Republican primaries.
And Trump sure won every single state where Democrats could cross over and vote in the Republican primaries.
“In case you did not know...”
No question Ryan, as the legislator, is MORE to blame than Trump for the actual details of the legislation.
But unless you think Trump and everyone around him are complete idiots, which I don’t, then he is to blame for supporting it. And not just supporting, he was a part of the strong-arm and ridiculous global-warming style non-sense about how this particular bill HAS to be approved or we all die penniless and alone and without insurance.
Or something similar.
That is hardly leadership. Nor deal-making. It is politics at its bare-ass ugliest. The very thing I expected Trump to avoid.
It is downright dishonest in a most childish (I don’t mean you) way to stomp feet and say ‘well, we’re stuck with Obamacare now because of those mean old Freedom-lovers.’
I would ask those practicing such pathetic tactics this:
What has changed in the last week that prevents us from fulfilling the president’s and the party’s very clear and very oft repeated promise to eliminate OCare?
Did some seats change parties? No.
Did we all agree to put up one disaster-lite bill, fail and quit? No.
Trump was actually quite mature and humble for about one day after defeat. Then he took to the infantile tactics as well - such as blaming HFC for saving OCare and PP. Utter nonsense.
So many Trump fans say silly things like we should have passed this for the sake of his momentum, or for the perception of his winning-ness as being unbeatable or whatever. Yet we are supposed to swallow Dem-like gibberish from him towards the most Freedom-oriented members of our party?
I’m still very grateful that Trump beat Hillary. And I’m with him on just about everything except for the Republican’t version of OCare.
But I gotta say... so far, the much-ballyhoo’d three D chess moves seem to me quite similar to those of a sandbox tantrum.
We, and he, can do better.
Yep but Ryan is hopeless, Trump may not be. I am not thinking Trump is playing 4D chess like more than a few here do, but I still hope he wakes up and remembers who voted him in.
Mat 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?Mat 11:4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see
That can't be true, because if it were, the President would have dragged out the negotiations in an effort to get the HFC (or RINOs) appeased and something passed.
Instead, he issued an ultimatum and said "vote tomorrow or I'm moving on".
My opinion is that the President was much more willing to see the bill fail than he was publicly indicating—perhaps primarily because of the damage it would do to Speaker Ryan, who—to my mind—created this insurance-company-tailored legislation specifically to sabotage Trump's Presidency.
Presuming that Paul Ryan—the epitome of a GOPe insider—wants this President to have a successful term is a yuuuuge leap of faith, lacking logic, IMHO.
Did Cruz lose?
Cruz wasn't running it was Trump or Hilary. As for single payer veterans have a contract for their health care so I don't consider that an entitlement. I to am on single payer as I am on Medicare....a system I have no choice whether to participate or not. If I misread your post I apologize. As for Trump being the best choice that is to be seen...his self inflated prowess for making deals doesn't seem so great right now!!!
In a way, yes.
However, was it not your main assertion that Cruz could not beat Hillary because he could not win the primary race?
If so, then doesn't that logic apply to all umteen candidates from our side?
It's kinda like saying only the one winning Republican was better than Hillary. They were ALL better than Hillary. Trump did not win because he was wildly popular, he won because she was wildly unpopular. And she still beat him, technically, in the popular vote.
Yes, I did notice that Trump won. I was one of the lucky ones who got to beat him like a orange-headed step child in the WI primary and then turn around and fully support him in the general. Which was the only mature option at that point. As opposed to the childish never-Trump and only-Trump factions.
"Trump won and he won big."
To be honest, it was "big" only in the sense that it was bigly unexpected. But I'm on his side for most things other than the awful HC bill. Which quite naturally and fairly would have been called TrumpCare, regardless what his fans feel about that. Obama did not write Obamacare, but he promoted NancyCare as Trump promoted RyanCare.
"You can't get any "better" than winning..."
As well, a party and its elected leaders can't get much worse than losing against itself after being awarded, temporarily, the House, the Senate, the WH, soon the courts, a vast majority of Govs and statehouses and all but one of the Pope-ships.
No question, Christ played chess to the 4th dimension and beyond - without resorting to dishonesty and trickery.
His prophecy-fulfilling words and actions, His disdain for the establishment, His mastery of the issues and the law and His unparalleled skill with parables.
His was and is the Master.
In the Trump savior analogy, I assume that...
Since he was a Senator trusted by Freedom’s faithful before the first coming of Trump and since he was instrumental in Trump’s arrival and acceptance... it might be appropriate to start calling Sessions:
Jeff the Baptist.
“My opinion is that the President was much more willing to see the bill fail than he was publicly indicating”
I can’t say what is in his heart. If you are correct, then it seems dishonest at least on his part. However, I’m more worried about the possibility that he honestly liked the bill. Or that he honestly didn’t understand the native language of DC in that ‘3 phase this and that’ is DC lingo for ‘bait and switch’.
As a middle-aged guy and WI resident I sometimes am not sure if people recall the story of Paul Ryan in the way we old locals (safely north of Ryan’s district). You probably know this, but:
Ryan was a conservative rock star for a time after arriving in DC. He was the Trump of federal entitlement reform. Entirely opposite his current reputation, he was back then considered very bold and brave. He had plans to gradually shift the entitlement to the states, where they are still a bad idea but at least not unconstitutional. Such an accomplishment would have been yuger than yuge. A constitution-lovers dream goal. And this guy had the balls to take it on the professional haters - I believe that was Ryan pushing grandma off the cliff in the Dem adverts of those days.
Then Obama happened.
Ryan went into full McConnel mode - take a nap until we win the WH again.
Then Trump happened.
To Ryan, Trump is essentially the Obama 3rd term. At least as it applies to entitlement reform. Because Trump made quite clear that such reform would not happen with him as president. Trump is not opposed to unconstitutional big govt entitlement programs. He just wants them to be more beautiful and efficient.
Obviously, Ryan is not the man he was eight and ten years ago. And his reputation is 180 degrees from then.
He almost certainly would way over-think entitlement reform and over-phase that goal too. Regardless, Ryan would still like to do entitlement reform and it won’t happen under Trump any sooner than under Obama. Maybe someday under president Pence.
Anyway, as awful as he has been since about 2008, one legit reason why Ryan opposes Trump is because Ryan is (or at least was) by a long shot the more conservative one regarding THE biggest problem in America and Ryan’s original fame-generating dragon the slaying of which would be his desired legacy - wildly unsustainable growth in federal entitlement and debt.
Now, the flip side.
Trump does not like Ryan because Ryan is wrong on immigration issues and Trump is the more correct and more conservative on that front. This is at least the second biggest, arguably the biggest, problem in America today. I say entitlement is bigger simply because, among other horrible things, it is a magnet for illegal immigration.
So Ryan’s original rise to fame and his stated prime function in political life is to achieve something great and good and Freedom-oriented but solidly opposed by Trump.
And Trump’s prime function, border control and nationalist -driven trade policy, which are also great and good are things opposed by Ryan, at least in his latter years.
A shame really. If those two egos could somehow accomplish both goals, then America certainly would be back to heading in the right direction.
It seems like Ryan structured this bill to preserve the Obamacare entitlement, not eliminate or replace it!
Given Ryan's gleeful anti-Trump rhetoric during the campaign season, I feel like there's something more sinister going on than what you've posited.
To me, it seems now like Paul Ryan has be co-opted by the Uniparty.
Let's see how this tax reform process plays out. If Paul Ryan can't come through for the President on this issue, then he should definitely step down Speaker. We need a Speaker and a President who are more compatible, on whatever level one wants to measure...
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