Skip to comments.Thiss is all over face book, Freeper comments please.
Posted on 10/05/2017 12:25:22 PM PDT by Bob Celeste
from the facebook page of Lloyd Acree.......Take it from 8 years' professional Marine Corps machine gunnery and marksmanship expertise:
Having trained to pro military "expert"-grade skill sets on rifle marksmanship and multiple machine guns in the Marine Corps infantry, I quickly started noticing a fowl odor in the news narrative on this Vegas massacre. The following are the weapons I am tired of shooting copious rounds through on both known and unknown distance ranges, running, hiking and training with, disassembling and reassembling, etc. Notice they all shoot automatic or can if switched over. - M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (full automatic) - M4/M16 (3-round auto) - M240G/B (full automatic) - IAR M27 (full automatic, top-dollar M16 variant)
I spent 8+ years training and shooting to military specs, not only with these machine guns but also pistols, shotguns and explosive weapons, not counting heavier machine guns and robotic mounting equipment used in private contracting overseas after my military service.
Now the distance shot from the Vegas hotel to the "Village" concert of about 400-500 yards would be too familiar with a single-shot AR15 to any Marine, but that is our **farthest** distance that we qualify with in the Marine Corps (people look like tiny letter i's in the distance at this point). We never shoot full automatic at this range unless we are using an imprecise burst to keep the enemy pinned, and that is only if your weapon is heavily secured to mitigate all the recoil. You just can't expect many kills at 500 yards even with a properly sighted slow fire rifle. But I will get back to this.
Now as a former point man, machine gunner, team leader, and assistant patrol leader, my ability to plan and implement these weapons is comparable with what we saw occur there in Las Vegas. Notice I did not say that the shooting was better than my abilities, but neither am I saying I could do a lot better - what I have observed as video/audio evidence is simply run-of-the-mill shooting. For Marines in the infantry, that is, IF they have professionally adjusted optics sighted to their preferred distance for engagement AND high quality vise-like stabilization. I knew something wasn't right when I kept hearing survivors say that their friends had received multiple bullets to the same body part. For example, one guy said his friend took three bullets to the chest--all while he was standing next to his friend! This means the man was shot three times all at once in the same burst, OR he was shot near-simultaneously by multiple shooters (that tends to happen if you are in the open wearing a red shirt or stand out for some similar reason). Then, another witness said he saw a man with four bullets in his head. I doubt it was actually four but obviously there were multiple holes there. These shot groupings at that distance from the hotel, considering this is a real-life killing, are already professional rate even with just a semi-automatic. But this is also full auto?
You might have already guessed, yes I knew right away the shooter was using a tripod or similar gear to stabilize the gun(s). But that alone is not enough to achieve both the high rate of fire and precision accuracy that occurred in Vegas. Only a precision-sighted rifle with a quality optic can drill those kinds of groupings at such a distance, but there's more--the longevity and redundancy of machine gun fire. This accuracy was no trick of a semi-auto trigger, as using a bump stock requires extra manipulation of the foregrip to slap the trigger against the finger (which would entail pulling against the tripod instead of leaning into it), instead of squeezing it smoothly as should be done for precise shot groups. In any case there was no accuracy to be had here in conventional light-weight full automatic gunfire, no matter how good the scope was, because a light-weight rifle such as the AR15 will rock and "climb" in direct proportion to the recoil of the rounds being fired. In other words, you can't stabilize your shots if your weapon isn't heavy, or at least locked down to something heavy, and if he was using a bump stock then we have to rule out that necessary stability.
Further, this man in his mid-60s who has sat for years in the seat of an accountant's desk, supposedly carried all these long-barreled weapons, ammo, and gear through the hotel by himself? He always kept his guns hidden from room service and his hefty logistics never tipped off the security guards?
This would all just be a conspiracy theory except that we also have footage proving that it was indeed multiple shooters from different locations around the building (see link below).
Who would conspire to sell this false story and cover up the real shooters?
We know that the leftist institutions, mainstream media (operation mockingbird), and the military industrial Congressional complex, funded and manipulated by deep state non-elected officials with immense power (aka "the swamp"), are all in cahoots to paint Donald Trump in a bad light no matter what happens. We know they want him impeached for the desperate, unsubstantiated accusation that he used Russian support to be elected (yet the Saudis are hand-in-glove with these accusers just as they funded our DNC candidates' campaigns). Do you really think that they would be so far from slaughtering a hundred country music fans if it meant they regained the helm of the entire US government? And now you see they are ramping up their push to take away America's guns. Why? Once we are under the boot, no one can stop a kangaroo court of corrupt officials from indicting Trump on baseless lies. At that point, there will be no bill of rights left, either. As if we still even have one after all the damage inflicted by the far-reaching patriot act.
These conspirators know they have to use a dramatic shooting like this one if they are to gain further ground: the public must receive a traumatic sensory immersion that scars our memory and thus eclipses the factual myriad stories we have of mom-and-pop locals stopping crime with their concealed carry pistols or home owners' shotguns. Law-abiding gun owners across the nation save lives in vastly variegated situations which is easy to read about if you simply keep in the know, but if you are informed only by the opinionated Hollywood celebs then, by all means, "big brother" is the only one who should have all the firepower. Because, you know, absolute power tends to soothe the bureaucratic soul into absolute moderation, or something like that.
This is not a legality problem: it's mass hysteria deliberately triggered by national terrorism to achieve population controls. This is precisely the definition of terrorism: to achieve political agendas by the use of violence and the fear of it! The bravest thing we can do is assert our rights and our human dignity, keep our minds sharp, and maintain our weapons to always war against true fascism--the very darkness this country was founded to fight.
Fear-driven abandonment is not the answer, just as big brother is never your friend.
- Lloyd Acree
I am not an expert or experience ed shooter. So excuse any dumb questions.
I believe you can bring large bags from the self-park garage over three days and keep room service out of your room.
How accurate do you have to be to shoot people in a crowd of thousands. Was the shooting aimed at individuals or just into the crowd.
Can’t understand people having 3-4 wounds.
I was assuming the count of injured was those hospitalized. Even if the injured were snowflakes at the concert, I would not expect them to seek medical treatment for cuts and bruises. This was a country music concert, mostly real Americans, so I would not expect a count of minor problems, not when real injuries require medical attention.
That's the term that came to mind for me, too. Minimal skill required.
A large scale commercial chicken house can literally knock you out when you walk inside if it’s not very thoroughly ventilated.
If they do this, then they should compromise by repealing the 1986 Hughes Act which caused the prices of full auto weapons to skyrocket. There is NO REASON for a legally transferable M-16 to cost over 50,000 dollars. You can be assured that any such owner will be thoroughly vetted by the background check that would be required to purchase one.
But we should get *something* in return.
No more freebies.
The police blew up the hotel door 72 minutes after the shooting started. The shooter however stoppped firing after 12 minutes or so. He then killed himself.
As a tank gunner, we'd think of it in terms of dismounts in the open, 400 meters. The usual gunner's direct fire telescope is a 10 power, not very far from a common 3-9 power variable telescope, and 4-12 power scopes are also widely available.
Judging from the bursts we heard, he was runing ammunition magazines of 50 [MagPul drum] or 100 rounds each, then dropping the hot weapon and switching to a pre-loaded *fresh* weapon*, avoiding overheated barrels, but more importantly with an AR-15 or M16, avoiding overheating the gas tube and burning a hole through it.
In the tanks, we ran a 6,000 round belt, and generally ran about 30-round bursts. Every 5th round was a tracer, so we could observe our rounds path and impact, especially at night, out to about 900 meters.
He was reportedly on the 32nd floor, and assuming around 10 feet of height per floor, that puts him in an elevated position about 320 feet high, about a quarter as high as he was far away, so that puts him at a downslope range of about 385 meters. From that position, I'd expect results more like 550 dead, and 80-100 for my driver to run over to make sure of.
One fairly busy day we set off with a full 6,000 rounds in the turret tac tray for the co-ax machinegun, plus another 12,000 rounds in ammo cans on the turret floor. Before lunch we had to return to refuel and reammo, having run off all but around 2500 rounds through the co-ax. It wasn't the busiest day we had by a long shot.
Want to stop sniper shootings at concerts or ball games? Park a tank with a good crew on the field. This is how it's done.
More likely: a LOT of people hit and less seriously injured by pinwheeling and fragmented bullet jackets, especially if military M856 rounds with a steel penetrator insert were used. This would also account for the relatively low number of fatalities and high number of WIA.
Want to stop sniper shootings at concerts or ball games? Park a tank with a good crew on the field. This is how it’s done.
good idea archy
I can hit a beer keg at around 300 yards with a 45 auto pistol.
Might take me a few tries.
Probably couldn’t do it on demand, but I have done it before.