Posted on 10/05/2017 12:25:22 PM PDT by Bob Celeste
from the facebook page of Lloyd Acree.......Take it from 8 years' professional Marine Corps machine gunnery and marksmanship expertise:
Having trained to pro military "expert"-grade skill sets on rifle marksmanship and multiple machine guns in the Marine Corps infantry, I quickly started noticing a fowl odor in the news narrative on this Vegas massacre. The following are the weapons I am tired of shooting copious rounds through on both known and unknown distance ranges, running, hiking and training with, disassembling and reassembling, etc. Notice they all shoot automatic or can if switched over. - M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (full automatic) - M4/M16 (3-round auto) - M240G/B (full automatic) - IAR M27 (full automatic, top-dollar M16 variant)
I spent 8+ years training and shooting to military specs, not only with these machine guns but also pistols, shotguns and explosive weapons, not counting heavier machine guns and robotic mounting equipment used in private contracting overseas after my military service.
Now the distance shot from the Vegas hotel to the "Village" concert of about 400-500 yards would be too familiar with a single-shot AR15 to any Marine, but that is our **farthest** distance that we qualify with in the Marine Corps (people look like tiny letter i's in the distance at this point). We never shoot full automatic at this range unless we are using an imprecise burst to keep the enemy pinned, and that is only if your weapon is heavily secured to mitigate all the recoil. You just can't expect many kills at 500 yards even with a properly sighted slow fire rifle. But I will get back to this.
Now as a former point man, machine gunner, team leader, and assistant patrol leader, my ability to plan and implement these weapons is comparable with what we saw occur there in Las Vegas. Notice I did not say that the shooting was better than my abilities, but neither am I saying I could do a lot better - what I have observed as video/audio evidence is simply run-of-the-mill shooting. For Marines in the infantry, that is, IF they have professionally adjusted optics sighted to their preferred distance for engagement AND high quality vise-like stabilization. I knew something wasn't right when I kept hearing survivors say that their friends had received multiple bullets to the same body part. For example, one guy said his friend took three bullets to the chest--all while he was standing next to his friend! This means the man was shot three times all at once in the same burst, OR he was shot near-simultaneously by multiple shooters (that tends to happen if you are in the open wearing a red shirt or stand out for some similar reason). Then, another witness said he saw a man with four bullets in his head. I doubt it was actually four but obviously there were multiple holes there. These shot groupings at that distance from the hotel, considering this is a real-life killing, are already professional rate even with just a semi-automatic. But this is also full auto?
You might have already guessed, yes I knew right away the shooter was using a tripod or similar gear to stabilize the gun(s). But that alone is not enough to achieve both the high rate of fire and precision accuracy that occurred in Vegas. Only a precision-sighted rifle with a quality optic can drill those kinds of groupings at such a distance, but there's more--the longevity and redundancy of machine gun fire. This accuracy was no trick of a semi-auto trigger, as using a bump stock requires extra manipulation of the foregrip to slap the trigger against the finger (which would entail pulling against the tripod instead of leaning into it), instead of squeezing it smoothly as should be done for precise shot groups. In any case there was no accuracy to be had here in conventional light-weight full automatic gunfire, no matter how good the scope was, because a light-weight rifle such as the AR15 will rock and "climb" in direct proportion to the recoil of the rounds being fired. In other words, you can't stabilize your shots if your weapon isn't heavy, or at least locked down to something heavy, and if he was using a bump stock then we have to rule out that necessary stability.
Further, this man in his mid-60s who has sat for years in the seat of an accountant's desk, supposedly carried all these long-barreled weapons, ammo, and gear through the hotel by himself? He always kept his guns hidden from room service and his hefty logistics never tipped off the security guards?
This would all just be a conspiracy theory except that we also have footage proving that it was indeed multiple shooters from different locations around the building (see link below).
Who would conspire to sell this false story and cover up the real shooters?
We know that the leftist institutions, mainstream media (operation mockingbird), and the military industrial Congressional complex, funded and manipulated by deep state non-elected officials with immense power (aka "the swamp"), are all in cahoots to paint Donald Trump in a bad light no matter what happens. We know they want him impeached for the desperate, unsubstantiated accusation that he used Russian support to be elected (yet the Saudis are hand-in-glove with these accusers just as they funded our DNC candidates' campaigns). Do you really think that they would be so far from slaughtering a hundred country music fans if it meant they regained the helm of the entire US government? And now you see they are ramping up their push to take away America's guns. Why? Once we are under the boot, no one can stop a kangaroo court of corrupt officials from indicting Trump on baseless lies. At that point, there will be no bill of rights left, either. As if we still even have one after all the damage inflicted by the far-reaching patriot act.
These conspirators know they have to use a dramatic shooting like this one if they are to gain further ground: the public must receive a traumatic sensory immersion that scars our memory and thus eclipses the factual myriad stories we have of mom-and-pop locals stopping crime with their concealed carry pistols or home owners' shotguns. Law-abiding gun owners across the nation save lives in vastly variegated situations which is easy to read about if you simply keep in the know, but if you are informed only by the opinionated Hollywood celebs then, by all means, "big brother" is the only one who should have all the firepower. Because, you know, absolute power tends to soothe the bureaucratic soul into absolute moderation, or something like that.
This is not a legality problem: it's mass hysteria deliberately triggered by national terrorism to achieve population controls. This is precisely the definition of terrorism: to achieve political agendas by the use of violence and the fear of it! The bravest thing we can do is assert our rights and our human dignity, keep our minds sharp, and maintain our weapons to always war against true fascism--the very darkness this country was founded to fight.
Fear-driven abandonment is not the answer, just as big brother is never your friend.
- Lloyd Acree
I agree with your ideas there. Good ones...
Nope. But they just won a Pulitzer of that story is true.
And just got sued out of existence if it’s false.
It’s silly. He was aiming at a blob about 2 acres big, anybody can hit that. As for hauling the guns up: luggage carts. As for hiding them from housekeeping: do not disturb.
This peckerhead is somebody’s factory operative, sowing paranooia and confusion into the mix. The question is- what sorts of surveillance cameras were in operation in the elevators, elevator lobbies and hallways of the hotel?
What story?
FYI the shooter was active for 10 minutes, then he offed himself.
You’re wrong. Mr. Mathematics.
Having fired AR-15 and AR-10 platforms, I can assure you that there is muzzle walk on the weapons in single shot and in rapid fire situations. If you are targeting at 500-600 yards range even a millimeter of walk on the muzzle drastically effects the impact location. You’re not talking about a 1mm rise at the muzzle being a 1mm rise at the target, because its not a straight shot. Even with high velocity rounds such as the 5.56mm nato round, its still a ballistic shot. This is well documented and proven science. At 500 yards, the 5.56 (M193) drops roughly 60 inches by the time it reaches its target. Altering the muzzle by 1mm, since its not a flat alteration, but an arced alteration, can make the impact distance between rounds many feet apart. That is to say, three rounds on one target that is moving at that range is not possible except under the most controlled circumstances. Rapid fire is nowhere near the controlled circumstance required, so this is pretty much an impossible feat.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minute_and_second_of_arc#Firearms
My guess is that these stories are exaggerations made by people under extreme duress\stress. This is a lot more likely.
I do agree that the 22,000 people in attendance made it difficult to miss.
I agree with this guy.
This smells as bad as “the single bullet theory” in the Kennedy Assassination, which i saw live on TV as a kid.
Precision accuracy???? What a crock....
More drivel for the mush minds.
If the guy was spray firing back and forth, there would be a brief pause at the end of each sweep that could have sent several bullets on near-identical trajectories. I don’t see anything here that screams “the perp could not have made those shots” - because he was not engaging in marksmanship, he was spray firing at fish in a barrel, which takes some endurance and some practice but not a lot of skill, IMO, and since he had lots of guns he didn’t care if he jammed a gun each minute or two. He would have just grabbed another, and the sheriff said some of the guns had jammed.
The actual firing is a much shorter period of time,IIRC.
I question his marksmanship and feel the number of hits was simply due to crowd density and the number of bullets he could fire.
With all the apparent planning and preparation the shooter did it’s not unreasonable to think that he practiced beforehand at the distance and elevation he would be firing from.
There are thousands of square miles of isolated desert nearby where he could practice in private all he wanted.
Plus, we don’t know what type of scope he had on his rifles.
From all reports he had some high end rifles so its likely that he had some high end optics too.
And as others have pointed out, shooting at a crowd of 22,000 jammed into an area the size of a football field doesn’t call for expert pinpoint marksmanship.
Title has a lisp?
As a former Marine Corp Infantryman, I’m calling BS on this.
The shooter was shooting from an elevation of approximately 350ft (~116 yards / ~100 meters / 32 floors) above ground level at a target that was 450-500 yards away. If the angle was extreme enough it would be like shooting at something 200-300 yards away trajectory wise. Bullets tend to have a flatter trajectory when shooting “downhill”. Muzzle rise is also impacted as the barrel is pointing downward, making it easier to control. If one adjusts correctly, rounds can be very accurate even when “praying and spraying”.
Got News just updated that story to say that the ATF is officially disputing it.
Also, I can tell you that the “electronic signal jamming device” part is more than likely false... because the hotel security cameras would definitely be hard-wired, and the cameras the shooter were using were probably wireless. Also, the moment “all of the cameras” in a single part of the hotel went out, security would be all over it.
I read (and who knows if it was true) that the housekeeping personnel were in the room twice. Isn’t it a shame we cannot rely on ANYTHING we are seeing or reading ... what a shame.
I will be very surprised if it turns out that any victims were hit by multiple gunshots. Maybe one, on a fluke, but no more than that.
I think the problem there could be that there were two rooms. He could have stashed all of his stuff in one room and called down to cancel all housekeeping on that room. Housekeeping might have gone in the other room. But you are right, who knows what is true in all of this?
You are failing to take into account that he was shooting “downhill”. He was 32 floors above ground, that’s roughly 350ft, while his targets were 400-500yards out at ground level. Bullet trajectory is more flat when shooting at an angle.
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