What Might Civil War Be Like?

"The simple answer, which should be obvious to you, is: they don't need to tell the troops anything, if they do their jobs and advise commanders against issuing unconstitutional orders."

So, what are JAGS's trained to answer when commanding officers are ordered by an elected President and Congress to "go get civilian guns"??

"Only extreme corruption up & down the chain of command would ever put individual troops in the position of trying to decide if a certain order is, or is not, constitutional.

Given Obama's obvious success at infesting the command structure with leftists, such corruption certainly appears possible.

"So have we now established that there are no circumstances under which ordinary military troops should ever be put in the position of trying to decide if certain orders are, or are not, constitutional?"

Uh, no. The two situations are completely different. One is a violation and usurpation of the Constitution. The other is the legal fulfillment of the Constitution according to its own internal requirements.

"So tell us all, sir, what "position" is that, and why is it not "lookin' so good"?"

Yeah, it boils down to "what, me worry" (Alfred E. Neuman). Or to use your own thought "I don't wanna think about it", with codicil "and I don't want anyone else to either".

And in so saying, you positively invite insults on yourself, since you practice with a vengeance the very "crimes" against logic you accuse me of. After all, what is all this rubbish you've been posting if not, in your own words...

Then where is your analysis and diagnosis of my fallacies? You've chosen to dismiss mine, both formal and informal, as "insult," much as a thief resents that title when caught.

Thus far, you've offered no more substantive reply than various derivatives of "nuh un," "I know you are, but what am I," and "you think you're so 'x,' but you're not."

Do you honestly not see how badly you're being slapped around, and is that preferable to learning to refine your thinking? After all, that's what we old timers originally came here for; to crush our enemies, see them driven before us, and hear the lamentations of their women ;-). We didn't come here to have others marvel at our sagacious pontifications. We wanted to learn how to fight and win against our ideological adversaries in the real world, not salve the boo-boos of petulant, inept, allies.

Wonder Warthog: "So, what are JAGS's trained to answer when commanding officers are ordered by an elected President and Congress to "go get civilian guns"??"

Not being a trained JAG myself, I couldn't answer, but common sense says it would be something like: "Sir, you can't do that, it's not constitutional."

Wonder Warthog: "Given Obama's obvious success at infesting the command structure with leftists, such corruption certainly appears possible."

Btw, you've not specifically mentioned Waco/Koresh but there's a modern day example which certainly did happen.
Today I don't remember details, except there were Zippers Clintoon, Janet Reno & Wesley Clark involved...
Ended very badly, but I don't think the issue there was confiscation of weapons...
And wasn't that the National Guard, not regular army troops?

Wonder Warthog: " One is a violation and usurpation of the Constitution.
The other is the legal fulfillment of the Constitution according to its own internal requirements."

I commend your willingness to draw that distinction, and agree.

Wonder Warthog: "Yeah, it boils down to "what, me worry" (Alfred E. Neuman)."

But I do worry, though not so much about your specific scenario.
What worries me is the bigger picture: that Obummer did his level best to turn "who we were" into "who we are", meaning good little multicultural, no borders, global warming alarmist socialists.
Now President Trump & most Republicans in Congress (sadly, not all) are doing their level best to reverse Zero's "achievements".
The Left's response has been open cultural warfare from the "main stream" media, academia, Deep State and Hollywood.
If that works in 2018 to wipe out Republican majorities, I'd say it's "Katie bar the door" -- open season on conservatives in general, Trump especially.

But for your scenario to play out, Dems would also need to stack the Supreme Court to, in effect, abolish the Second Amendment by decree -- similar to the overreaching of Dred-Scott and Roe v Wade (also strong Democrat SCOTUS majorities).
That would take time, I can't see it happening overnight, but now suppose all the illegal aliens suddenly received amnesty on condition they vote for Democrats?

It would mean we've lost, bigly, and the Second Amendment would not, by far, be the only one under assault.

So sure, be afraid, be very afraid, there's plenty of reason for it.

"Impeach 45"

papertyger: "Then where is your analysis and diagnosis of my fallacies?"

I'm not here to analyze alleged fallacies -- i.e., "oh, that's a red herring, this is a straw man, and there's an excluded middle, here you appeal to a stone, and there are both a broken window and vacuous truth" -- although I "get" that some people would rather deal in such matters than in actual content of discussion.
I'm more interested in the actual topic, which in this case was your claim, in effect, that police like to "mess with" suspects.
I disagree and in response you have attacked my reasoning and insulted my character.

Surely, as an expert in logical fallacies, you can name your own categories, and would correct them if you actually cared.

papertyger: "Do you honestly not see how badly you're being slapped around, and is that preferable to learning to refine your thinking?"

It has always astonished me how trolls like yourself so often do their little end-zone victory dance, in their own end-zone!
You've been pushed back to your own two-yard line, you take the snap from center and immediately start dancing around yelling, "I scored, I scored!!" when you've actually done nothing, and gone nowhere.
I don't know what the name of that behavior is, but am pretty sure it's in the opening chapter of the Troll Handbook, because they all do it!

papertyger: " After all, that's what we old timers originally came here for; to crush our enemies, see them driven before us, and hear the lamentations of their women ;-)."

But there are virtually no liberals, progressives or Leftists on Free Republic, such people as would surely deserve your warrior-like spirit.
Instead, they're pretty much all conservatives with most differences equivalent to differences amongst, for example, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Congregationalists, Evangelicals, etc.
Whatever differences we all, so to speak, read the same Bible and when the Leftist Muzzies come to burn Christians at the stake, they won't care a whit for such differences of opinion.
Neither will our Lord.

papertyger: "We wanted to learn how to fight and win against our ideological adversaries in the real world, not salve the boo-boos of petulant, inept, allies."

And you intend to fight the Left by beating up on your own brothers & sisters in arms?

Speaking of which, this discussion began over alleged police misbehavior.
So which side is it -- left or conservative -- that for years now has assaulted police both verbally and physically?

And which side of that are you on, FRiend?

"Not being a trained JAG myself, I couldn't answer, but common sense says it would be something like: "Sir, you can't do that, it's not constitutional."

Yes, but are they (JAGs) specifically trained to draw that judgment?? Where is the training that identifies a usurpation of the Constitution as an illegal order. SOMEWHERE in the military chain of command, such questions have to have been discussed and training done. It "should" be done at all levels, from the War College (generals and admirals), in the military academies, even in ROTC.

I'd be satisfied if the Congress were to specifically state that it is an act of treason for the military to participate in civilian firearm confiscation. Or for Trump as Commander-in-Chief to issue an equivalent presidential order. Possi comitatus was bypassed. I'd like to see us get at least SOME of the legal protection restored.

The very examples you provided show how close we have come to the situation I (and a LOT of other folks) worry about.

A Left vs Right civil war — armed combat at the national level?

Don’t see that happening at all.

Communications, resources, and travel are deeply entwined with the infrastructure and machinery the military would ultimately control. Each side would vie for an alliance with the military while it confronts foreign opportunists. That would be a huge headache for the govt. As such, the govt will ensure there is no civil war.

The true problem is the MSM which is owned primarily by a few major corporations. Naturally, this is never — NEVER — discussed because it’s easier to fantasize about the civil war that will never happen. And no investigative reporter nor radio jock wishes to bite the hand that feeds them.

Disney is about to absorb a significant number of FOX properties controlling a sickening degree of influence. Comcast owns the other significant portion.

I don’t necessarily despise these corps, but their media properties certainly despise the traditional America we’re fighting for.

The “civil war” to be had is with those pissing in your living room.

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