Posted on 10/26/2021 12:05:03 PM PDT by DeweyCA
No. I’m arguing for an intelligently operated government.
Yes, indeed!
Imagine the creativity that would be set free.
Imagine the money that would be diverted from the government indoctrination camps and redirected into the free market. Everyone’s standard of living would immediately take a quantum jump.
Go read material on this subject as written by the Founders. They made a lot of sense. Let me give you some samples:
Above all things I hope the education of the common people will be attended to, convinced that on their good sense we may rely with the most security for the preservation of a due degree of liberty.
—Thomas Jefferson
I know of no safe repository for the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to increase their discretion by education.
—Thomas Jefferson
If the children are untaught, their ignorance and vices will in future life cost us much dearer in their consequences than it would have done in their correction by a good education.
—Thomas Jefferson
The tax which will be paid for the purpose of education is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests and nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance.
—Thomas Jefferson
There are MANY more where these come from. Similar quotes from Franklin, Madison, and others are recorded. This is all fundamental to a prosperous and safe society.
Just outside the bounds of the Constitution.
>> Make them compete for students.
This is also the only way to get back to schools that actually teach their students useful skills, like reading, writing and arithmetic. The whole point of a free market system is creative destruction. You stink at delivering a good product, you go out of business. Our government schools have been divorced from this imperative for generations now, with predictable (bad) results.
Bring on the vouchers!
No sir, it is not. Perhaps you could reference the material that set you to this opinion. I have presented material that I used in the formation of my outlook on this issue; and, that material was written by the Founders of our Nation. If you expect to sway my opinion, you will need to present a logical discourse to that end. Otherwise, you aren’t going to be enlightening.
It is impossible for any school to be religiously, culturally, and politically neutral.
Prove this point with appropriate references and a logical progression of thought. I disagree with the statement, regarding it as false.
You make statements, with no grounds for validity. These are not educated opinions, merely musings of an outsider of society.
10th Amendment
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
I understand that amendment. I believe it has no bearing on the topic. If you think it does, please make your point with references and a logical progression of stated thought. Convince me that you aren’t just a parrot.
The states each establish their own school system. The Federal Government does not establish the schools. The DOE assists the states in their education efforts. You see, under the 10th Amendment, the states DO have Constitutional authority to establish the schools and their operational standards; and that is precisely where the originate.
I am busy right now and I don’t have to prove anything to you.
Others see the correctness of my points. The author of the WSJ article agrees with me on the question of government schooling being unconstitutional and a violation of the First Amendment.
I don't think you can prove anything to me. Your opinions have no basis.
Others see the correctness of my points.
Sure. I am sure there are many people who haven't studied the issues much, yet think the simple act of abolishing schools could possibly help anything. Real long range planners, your lot. You have opinions, but no points.
Re: Abolishing schools
This is a straw man. I have never said abolish schools.
All schooling should be privatized. When government establishes schooling and ( worse) compels attendance and forces taxation, it violates every First Amendment provision.
Government violates the rights of the parents, the child, and the citizen, all of whom are under the threat of **armed** police and court action.
As for schooling, homeschooling is the most natural and healthiest way to rear a child. Of course some children will need institutionalization for their schooling. We need orphanages, too, but no one is arguing that it is the best setting for the child.
Read the posted article. The article plainly explains the argument.
You are justifying the circumvention of the Constitution and promoting an unlimited, lawless government.
First, there are no prohibitions for schools in the Constitution; and, Congress in empowered to solve problems through legislation. If you wish to make this point, please quote the part of the Constitution that makes you think so, and then include supporting interpretations by the Founders or other Constitutional authority. I read the entire Constitution regularly, including the Amendments. I don't see any justification for your stance. On the other hand, I can find a great deal of sensible material related to the establishment of public schools.
Second, public schools are not established by the Federal Constitution. In every single state, schools are created by the state's constitution. The states are guaranteed that power under the terms of the 10th Amendment.
Third, public schools were instituted way back in the 1540s by Queen Elizabeth I. She understood the advantages to society brought about through general literacy, even for those who could not afford private schools. The first public school in North America was established in the early 1600s at Jamestown.
Fourth, private schools would prevent some people from obtaining even the most meager and basic education. Public schools are intended to raise the standard of living of the entire Nation at least to the point that all people can be theoretically self sufficient. A school that is organized for profit will most certainly charge what the market will bear, thus excluding many people from a basic education. How could this possibly escape your attention? Perhaps you prefer to have a serf class.
Good minds have agonized over this issue for centuries. The real problem with our public schools is that they wandered off the reservation, due mostly because of inattention and apathy on the part of conservatives. I guarantee you, private schools would also degrade in quality once parents sue them because their little darlings can't make the grade. Furthermore, degradation of private school curriculum would also occur given the inattention of conservative people.
You repeat yourself rather than rendering an explanation of how you arrive at that conclusion. I don't see this as true. Help me understand.
...homeschooling is the most natural and healthiest way to rear a child...
This should be the case, but it not necessarily true. Some parents couldn't teach much because they don't know much. You are assuming that all parents are like you are even your parents. That is generally untrue. I know there are plenty of parents who would be unable to teach most any subject accurately or fluently.
I think perhaps that you do not agree with the notion that in order to have a situation that promotes decent self-governance we must have high literacy in the masses. People who can do basic arithmetic and read and write are far less likely to become a tax burden than those who do not have such skills. Surely you understand that there are many families who can barely make ends meet, let alone send their children to a private school. That model has been tried before. It encompassed the Ancient Times, The Dark Ages, Medieval Times, all the way to the 1600 and 1700s. Only children of nobility or wealth could experience a formal learning process. Is that how things should be?
Public schools in this Nation started out just fine. Then the liberal/commie creeping crud set in, but only because conservative people failed to monitor the schools, failed to react when they saw trouble, and almost never do anything to combat the dysfunctional changes. The problem with public education can be fixed as long as conservatives reverse their habits with respect to the schools.
If you CAN afford private schools or are able be provide an effective education at home, then it would certainly be best to do so. The rest of us will need some well thought out help.
There are people who don't pay school taxes, and not much income tax. They would not be able to provide any form of education for their children if all schooling was accomplished through private schools. Public schools were actually established with those people in mind. Ponder for a moment and think of the Dark Ages, Medieval Europe, or most any period up to modern times. The only people to receive an education were nobles or the otherwise wealthy. Are you advocating for a return to that situation?
How about we just fix what the liberals screwed up?
This is what’s teaching Critical Race Theory and if you think this hater is a rarity, you are not paying attention.
https://twitter.com/shannon_alter/status/1453698078658252802
Read the article. The explanation is there for all to see.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.