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"Muhammad, Islam, and Terrorism" The Ugly Truth about Islam
Answering Islam ^ | September 12, 2001 | Bob Glenn

Posted on 09/16/2001 6:45:46 AM PDT by BobfromMichigan2001

Muhammad, Islam, and Terrorism x x 4 41 2001-09-11T21:59:00Z 2001-09-11T22:02:00Z 17 11020 62817 523 125 77143 9.3821

The below following article "Muhammad, Islam, and Terrorism" was written nearly two and a half years before the terror attack of September 11th, 2001. This tragedy has shown again how important it is to understand the reasons and dynamics fuelling Islamic terrorism. Determining the right response is not easy. But some kinds of response are definitely wrong. This article is quite detailed, but even if you do not read the complete article, please make sure you read our concluding remarks.


This article shows the basis for radical, fundamentalist Islam. This is not the only Islam there is. Note also, that this article is linked on the current entry page under the heading of "Understanding Islamic Terrorism", not under the title of "Understanding Islam". Apart from many peaceful Muslims who are themselves unaware of the material presented below, there are also educated, moderate Muslims who do not agree with such terrorist acts and interpret these passages of the Qur'an and these precedents in the life of Muhammad differently. They would not interpret them as justifying atrocities as committed by Islamic terrorist groups. The problem is that those Muslims who oppose the radicals are themselves in danger and fear of becoming the target of the radicals in Islam. Ignoring the "violent passages" in the Qur'an and Muslim traditions will not be the solution. The Islamic community has to confront the terrorists in their midst in word and deed, by bringing them to justice and by opposing their interpretation of Islam, if they believe it is not the true interpretation. We call for all Muslims to unmistakenly distance themselves from terrorist acts AND by giving the real meaning of these passages and precedents presented below, to confront and excommunicate those who hold this violent Islam to be the only true Islam. As long as the Muslim community does NOT confront and stop them, they cannot complain that "the non-Muslims are misrepresenting Islam" and are biased and islamophobic. The below article draws the strongest possible conclusions from the sources, but it deals with the historical sources. Muslims who disagree with the conclusions, need to enter a discussion on those sources that are the foundations of Islam. We are willing to engage in this discussion and link from here to Muslim responses.

However, it remains true, that what follows below exposes the basis for this kind of radical Islam that has shown the world its deadly determination. It is not just in the imagination of some people who "hate Islam".

The webmaster of Answering Islam being author of the introductory paragraphs above and the concluding remarks at the bottom of the page, welcomes your response.


MUHAMMAD, ISLAM, AND TERRORISM

 

 

INTRODUCTION

 

            The actions of Islamic terrorist groups operating throughout the world are well known.  Islamic terrorists have bombed and destroyed buildings, planes, and vehicles.  Additionally, during the last 20 years, Muslim terrorists have targeted and murdered tens of thousands of males, females, adults, and children.  All over the world, in Kenya, Algeria, Indonesia, Egypt, Iran, France, South America and America, etc., Muslim terrorists have attacked and murdered those they felt were a threat to their aims.  No one has been spared by these treacherous people.

 

            Not surprisingly, examination of the websites that deal with terrorism show that about one half of all terrorist groups in the world are Islamic in nature.

 

            Why are these groups Islamic?  What does the religion of Islam have to do with terrorism?  Is there a link between the two?  How do these groups justify murdering civilians based upon Islamic values?  Are terrorism and murder actually allowed under Islam?

 

            This article examines the basis for Islamic terrorism found within Islam.  Starting with Muhammad and reviewing his teachings and his actions, and then visiting what other Muslims have taught, the fundamentals of Islamic terrorism will be examined. 

 

 

NOTES

 

1)  My comments or source references will be in [  ] type brackets.  Other writers comments will be in the (  ) type brackets.

 

 

2)  When I talk about terrorist actions, I am talking about motive and action.  Crime exists in every society, and I am not including all crimes as examples of terrorism.  I am focusing on the violent actions Muslims carry out in the name of Islam.  For example, in Egypt some years ago, a Muslim man murdered an American women.  He killed her then robbed her.  His motive was greed, not the furtherance of Islam.  I would not call that an Islamic terrorist action.  On the other hand, Muslims who carry out bombings, like the ones in Kenya and Tanzania -  in which hundreds of innocents died, do so because they feel they are attacking their enemies and have Allah's sanction to do so.  That is a terrorist action.

 

            Additionally, there are many kinds of terrorists who engage in violence.  There are political terrorists operating in South America, there are terrorists who murder doctors who perform abortion.  There are Communist terrorists, capitalist terrorists, right wing terrorists, left wing terrorists, etc.  In America, there are gangs that operate like terrorists.  However, in this writing, I am focusing on terrorism based upon what Muhammad taught and did.  I am focusing on Muslims, who for the sake of Islam, commit violent acts of terrorism.  But I want all readers to know that I note that there are many non-Muslim terrorists operating in the world.  Some of these other terrorists are every bit as vicious as Muslim terrorists.

 

 

3)  A "terrorist" is defined as "one who engages in acts of terrorism".   "Terrorism" is defined as "the unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

 

 

 

 

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MUHAMMAD'S EARLY ACTIONS AND TEACHINGS

 

            When Muhammad started out preaching his religion of Islam he was not violent. He was persecuted for preaching his religious ideas - Islam - and denigrating the pagan religions of the Meccans.  Some of Muhammad's followers were tortured.  Things were so bad for him and his few followers that he sent many of them to Abyssinia [Ethiopia] for refuge.  Eventually, he and his followers moved north to a city called Yathrib [Medina], where some members of two Arab tribes wanted Muhammad to be their prophet.

 

 

 

 

BEGINNING OF MUHAMMAD'S VIOLENCE

 

            Just prior to Muhammad's leaving for Medina, he received  a "revelation" allowing him to fight the Meccans.  He knew that in Medina, he had a group of armed men who would support him.  Furthermore, in Medina, would be more distant from the Meccans and their attempts to oppress or kill him.  The following is from "The Life of Muhammad", page 212, by A. Guillaume, which is a rendering of Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasulallah", a biography of Muhammad written by an early Muslim scholar  [1].

 

 

            "THE APOSTLE RECEIVES THE ORDER TO FIGHT

 

            The apostle had not been given permission to fight or allowed to shed blood before the second Aqaba [a place where a pledge was made between Muhammad and his followers from Medina].  He had simply been ordered to call men to God and to endure insult and forgive the ignorant.  The Quraysh [a leading group of Meccans] had persecuted his followers, seducing some from their religion and exiling others from their country.  They had to choose whether to give up their religion, be maltreated at home, or to flee the country, some to Abyssinia, others to Medina.

 

            When Quraysh became insolent towards God and rejected His gracious purpose, accused His prophet of lying, and ill treated and exiled those who served Him and proclaimed His unity, believed in His prophet and held fast to His religion, He gave permission to His apostle to fight and to protect himself against those who wronged them and treated them badly......[a]

            The meaning is "I have allowed them to fight only because they have been unjustly treated while their sole offense against men has been that they worship God.  When they are in the ascendant they will establish prayer, pay the poor-tax, enjoin kindness, and forbid iniquity, i.e., the prophet and his companions all of them."  The God sent down to him:  "Fight them so that there be no more seduction," [b] i.e. until no believer is seduced from his religion.  "And the religion is God's,", i.e. Until God alone is worshipped."

 

END OF QUOTE

            [Note:  two passages from the Quran are referenced:  [a] Sura 22:39-41, which I did not quote, and [b] Sura 2:193]

 

 

Two critical points here:

 

1)  in Mecca, where Muhammad was weak, he attacked no one.  He only preached his religion and insulted the Meccan's religions.  But it was just prior to his leaving for Medina, where he had a limited amount of armed men to support him, that he received this "revelation" and began to use violence to further his desires.  Islamic history shows that as Muslims grew in power their forms of violence changed from criminal terrorism to outright warfare. 

 

2)  At the end of the quote, it says that Muslims are to fight those that do not worship Allah.

 

 

            I also comment on Ibn Ishaq's work.  When reading this passage from Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad is made to appear to be long suffering and primarily fighting in self defense, and that up until just before Muhammad's departure, the Meccan persecution was tolerable, but that it became so bad that Muhammad was finally given permission to fight back.

 

            The problem with this is that Muhammad had been severely persecuted prior to this and that Muslims had been abused well before their departure.  In other words, the quoted passage is apologetic work on Ibn Ishaq's part.  Earlier, well before the Treaty of Aqaba, things were so bad for Muhammad that he went to a town called Taif to seek their help and protection [Guillaume, op cit, page 192].  The Taifians rejected and abused him.  Things were so bad for Muhammad in Mecca, Muhammad had to beg three men for their protection [Guillaume, op cit, page 194].

 

            In Mecca, Muhammad continued to proclaim himself as a prophet and he was abused all the more.  He never received any "revelations" to fight at that time. 

 

            Eventually, good fortune fell into Muhammad's lap and just as in Adolph Hitler's case, his persistence paid off.  A group of feuding Arabs in Medina accepted him as their prophet.  They hoped he could help them maintain peace.  They eventually made a pledge to support Muhammad in war against the Quraysh [Guillaume, op cit, page 205].  Now Muhammad knew he had an able and armed following.  It was only when he had a following that could defend themselves, and his people were migrating north to Medina, and that he knew he was going to leave town, that suddenly "Allah" gave Muhammad his "revelation" to fight.  Muhammad's circumstances changed, and Muhammad's Allah changed with them.  Muhammad went from being only a "warner" to being an aggressor.

 

 

 

 

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MUHAMMAD'S EARLY TERRORIST ACTS

 

            After moving to Medina, Muhammad began to have conflict with the Jews and pagans in the area.  I'll focus on several incidents, not necessarily in chronological order, that illustrate Muhammad as a terrorist.

 

            The first terrorist incident involves Muhammad's command to his followers to "kill any Jew that comes under your power".

 

From Guillaume, op cit, page 369:

 

            "The apostle said, "Kill any Jew that falls into your power."  Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him.  Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother.  When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, 'You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?'  Muhayyisa answered, 'Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.'"

 

END OF QUOTE

 

 

This story is also supported in the Sunan of Abu Dawud, Book 19, Number 2996:

 

Narrated Muhayyisah:  The Apostle of Allah said:  If you gain a victory over the men of Jews, kill them.  So Muhayyisah jumped over Shubaybah, a man of the Jewish merchants.  He had close relations with them.  He then killed him.  At that time Huwayyisah (brother of Muhayyisah) had not embraced Islam.  He was older than Muhayyisah.  When he killed him, Huwayyisah beat him and said:  O enemy of Allah, I swear by Allah, you have a good deal of fat in your belly from his property.

 

END OF QUOTE

 

 

            This murder was committed upon Muhammad's command.  Note that this Muslim murderer would have killed a family member at the drop of a hat.  Muhammad was no better than a bigoted criminal boss, ordering his men to wantonly murder Jewish people.  Hitler did this.  And, this is what Serbs are doing to the Kosovan Muslims.  Muhammad's command to murder Jews puts him in the same category as Milosovic, Hitler, and others who have persecuted Jews throughout history.

 

            A quote from an Islamic scholar - Wensinck writes in his, "Muhammad and the Jews of Medina" [2], page 113:

 

            "It is remarkable that tradition attributes Muhammad's most cruel acts to divine order, namely the siege of Qaynuqa, the murder of Kab, and he attack upon Qurayzah.  Allah's conscience seems to be more elastic than that of his creatures."..... Ibn Ishaq and al-Waqidi report that the prophet said the morning after the murder (of Kab Ashraf), "Kill any Jew you can lay your hands on.".

 

 

            This incident is also documented in Tabari's History [3], page 97 of volume 7.

 

 

            This shows that Muhammad had unsuspecting people, those who even had good relations with Muslims, murdered in cold blood because they were Jewish.  There was no justification to murder these Jews other than they were not Muhammad's followers.  These actions were the work of Muhammad's terrorists committing murder.

 

 

 

 

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            The second terrorist incident involves another one of Muhammad's requests:  this one for his men to murder an old Jewish man named Abu Afak.  Abu Afak was 120 years.  Abu Afak had urged his fellow Medinans to question Muhammad.

 

 

From Guillaume, op cit., page 675:

 

 

            SALIM B. UMAYR'S EXPEDITION TO KILL ABU AFAK

 

Abu Afak was one of the B. Amr b. Auf of the B. Ubayda clan.  He showed his disaffection when the apostle killed al-Harith b. Suwayd b. Samit and said:

 

                        "Long have I lived but never have I seen

                        An assembly or collection of people

                        More faithful to their undertaking

                        And their allies when called upon

                        Than the sons of Qayla when they assembled,

                        Men who overthrew mountains and never submitted,

                        A rider who came to them split them in two (saying)

                        "Permitted", "Forbidden", of all sorts of things.

                        Had you believed in glory or kingship

                        You would have followed Tubba          

 

[NOTE:  the Tubba was a ruler from Yemen who invaded that part of what is present Saudi Arabia:  the Qaylites resisted him]

           

 

            The apostle said, "Who will deal with this rascal for me?"  Whereupon Salim b. Umayr, brother of B. Amr b. Auf, one of the "weepers", went forth and killed him.  Umama b. Muzayriya said concerning that:

 

                        You gave the lie to God's religion and the man Ahmad!  [Muhammad]

                        By him who was your father, evil is the son he produced!

                        A "hanif" gave you a thrust in the night saying

                        "Take that Abu Afak in spite of your age!"

                        Though I knew whether it was man or jinn

                        Who slew you in the dead of night (I would say naught).

 

END OF QUOTE

 

 

            Additional information is found in the Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, (Book of the Major Classes) by Ibn Sa'd, Volume 2, [4], page 32:

 

            Then occurred the "sariyyah" [raid] of Salim Ibn Umayr al-Amri against Abu Afak, the Jew, in [the month of] Shawwal in the beginning of the twentieth month from the hijrah [immigration from Mecca to Medina in 622 AD], of the Apostle of Allah.  Abu Afak, was from Banu Amr Ibn Awf, and was an old man who had attained the age of one hundred and twenty years.  He was a Jew, and used to instigate the people against the Apostle of Allah, and composed (satirical) verses [about Muhammad].

 

            Salim Ibn Umayr who was one of the great weepers and who had participated in Badr, said, "I take a vow that I shall either kill Abu Afak or die before him.  He waited for an opportunity until a hot night came, and Abu Afak slept in an open place.  Salim Ibn Umayr knew it, so he placed the sword on his liver and pressed it till it reached his bed.  The enemy of Allah screamed and the people who were his followers, rushed to him, took him to his house and interred him.

 

END OF QUOTE

 

 

            From a contemporary Muslim scholar - Ali Dashti's "23 Years:  A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad", [5], page 100:

 

            "Abu Afak, a man of great age (reputedly 120 years) was killed because he had lampooned Mohammad.  The deed was done by Salem b. Omayr at the behest of the Prophet, who had asked, "Who will deal with this rascal for me?"  The killing of such an old man moved a poetess, Asma b. Marwan, to compose disrespectful verses about the Prophet, and she too was assassinated."

 

 

            Prior to listing all of the assassinations Muhammad had ordered, Ali Dashti writes on page 97:

 

            "Thus Islam was gradually transformed from a purely spiritual mission into a militant and punitive organization whose progress depended on booty from raids and revenue from the zakat tax."

 

 

REVIEW

 

            Here another man was murdered upon Muhammad's command. This man was 120 years old.  He was no physical threat to Muhammad and he did not urge people to commit violent acts against Muhammad or the Muslims.  There was no discussion with Jewish leaders, there was no dialogue with Abu Afak; it was just an outright murder of another one of Muhammad's critics.  Abu Afak urged the people who lived in Medina to doubt and leave Muhammad.  Abu Afak found that Muhammad's sayings were strange and dictatorial.  He chided the Arabs that put their faith in Muhammad.  Muhammad heard of this and viewed the 120 year old man as a threat to his credibility, not to his life.  Nowhere does it say that Abu Afak urged his fellow Arabs to attack or harm Muhammad.  Yet for speaking his mind, for the benefit of his friends, this man was murdered by Muhammad.

 

            The last statement in Umama b. Muzayriya's verse reveals something though:

 

            "Though I knew whether it was man or jinn

            Who slew you in the dead of night (I would say naught)."

 

            This statement displays that the Muslims knew exactly what they were doing.  They knew it was cold-blooded murder that they were committing upon Muhammad's request.  They wanted to keep it secret, they wanted to hide their evil deeds from the populace at large.  That's why Umama said he wouldn't reveal who murdered Abu Afak.

 

            When I think of what type of people order their followers to commit murder, I only can think of organized crime bosses or corrupt political figures.  Saddam Hussein comes to mind.  How would an Iraqi be treated if he spoke out about Saddam?  Amnesty International just reported that over 1500 political prisoners were executed in Iraq last year.

 

            Or take the Ayatollah Khomenni.  His fundamentalist Islamic regime had other dissident Iranians murdered all over the world.  These murderous Muslims represent exactly what Muhammad was all about.  They follow Muhammad's methodology:  kill those who are a threat to your credibility and power over others.

 

 

 

 

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            The third incident involves Muhammad's request for his men to murder a women named Asma b. Marwan.

 

Quoting from Guillaume, pages 675, 676.

 

 

UMAYR B. ADIYY'S JOURNEY TO KILL ASMA D. MARWAN

 

            "She was of B. Umayyya b. Zayd.  When Abu Afak had been killed she displayed disaffection.  Abdullah b. al-Harith b. Al-Fudayl from his father said that she was married to a man of B. Khatma called Yazid b. Zayd.  Blaming Islam and its followers she said:

 

            "I despise B. Malik and al-Nabit

            and Auf and B. al-Khazraj.

            You obey a stranger who is none of yours,

            One not of Murad or Madhhij.   {1}

            Do you expect good from him after the killing of your chiefs

            Like a hungry man waiting for a cook's broth?

            Is there no man of pride who would attack him by surprise

            And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him?"

 

 

Hassan b. Thabit answered her:

 

            "Banu Wa'il and B. Waqif and Khatma

            Are inferior to B. al-Khazraj.

            When she called for folly woe to her in her weeping,

            For death is coming.

            She stirred up a man of glorious origin,

            Noble in his going out and in his coming in.

            Before midnight he dyed her in her blood

            And incurred no guilt thereby."

 

 

            When the apostle heard what she had said he said, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?"  Umayr b. Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her.  In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, "You have helped God and His apostle, O Umayr!"  When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, "Two goats won't butt their heads about her", so Umayr went back to his people.

 

            Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [girl] Marwan.  She had five sons, and when Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, "I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma.  Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting."  That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma; before that those who were Muslims concealed the fact.  The first of them to accept Islam was Umayr b. Adiy who was called the "Reader", and Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit.  The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam."

 

 

{1}      The note reads "Two tribes of Yamani origin."

 

 

END OF QUOTE

 

 

And from Ibn Sa'd's, "Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir" [op cit] volume 2, page 31.

 

 

            "SARIYYAH OF UMAYR IBN ADI"

 

            Then (occurred) the sariyyah of Umayr ibn adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi  against Asma Bint Marwan, of Banu Umayyah Ibn Zayd, when five nights had remained from the month of Ramadan, in the beginning of the nineteenth month from the hijrah of the apostle of Allah.  Asma was the wife of Yazid Ibn Zayd Ibn Hisn al-Khatmi.  She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him.  She composed verses.  Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house.  Her children were sleeping around her.  There was one whom she was suckling.  He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her.  He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back.  Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina.  The apostle of Allah said to him:  "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?"  He said:  "Yes.  Is there something more for me to do?"  He [Muhammad] said:  "No two goats will butt together about her.  This was the word that was first heard from the apostle of Allah.  The apostle of Allah called him Umayr, "basir" (the seeing).

 

END OF QUOTE

 

 

 

 

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DISCUSSION

 

            Let's sum this up and put it in perspective.

 

            Muhammad had al-Harith b. Suwayd b. Samit killed.  This upset Abu Afak, so he spoke out against it.  So, likewise, Muhammad had Abu Afak murdered.  This offended Asma b. Marwan and she spoke out against that evil deed.  She encouraged her fellow tribesmen to take action against Muhammad.  When Muhammad heard of what she had said, he had her killed also.

 

            At first glance, this order to kill Asma might seem justifiable.  Asma was calling for someone to kill Muhammad.  It is understandable for Muhammad to be bothered by that.

 

            But let's look deeper at the event and examine the context of Asma's relationship to her tribe.

 

 

1)         First of all, Asma has seen Muhammad in action.  She had seen him for what he was, a cold blooded murderer.  Of course she spoke out against a murderer.

 

Second, her tribe was not under Muhammad's rule.  Perhaps they had a treaty with Muhammad, perhaps not.  Either way, this women was free to speak her mind.  If a treaty existed, and she was out of line, Muhammad could have complained to her tribe's leaders, and they could have commanded her to be silent or dealt with the situation.

 

 

2)         What's more noteworthy about this event is that after she was murdered, Muhammad said "Two goats won't butt their head about her", meaning no one will care about her death.  (Well except her children and her family). 

 

            Also note, that there were already people from her tribe who had become Muslims.  Certainly these people were not going to listen to her.

 

 

            The point is this:  if no one really cared about her being murdered, then no one really cared about what she had to say.  Her people also knew about Muhammad having Abu Afak murdered, and they didn't care about that either.  Even in that light, no one would take her serious enough to listen to her urgings to murder Muhammad, who was the leader of a powerful group of people.  None of her people were willing to put their lives on the line for her words.

 

 

            The bottom line is that Asma b. Marwan was not a legitimate threat to Muhammad.  She didn't scare him, she was not the leader of her tribe, and she had little or no influence.  She was little more than a nuisance to him.  Yet Muhammad had her murdered, again, in cold, premeditated blood.

 

            And one wonders why Muhammad didn't kill her himself?  It was always easier for Muhammad to have someone else do his killing.

 

 

            Put the shoe on the other foot.  Throughout the Mideast, there are Muslims who call America the Great Satan.  These Muslims have called for the violent destruction of America. Frequently great crowds have gathered to chant "death to America, death to Reagan, or Bush, or etc.". At times these people have even murdered Americans.  Now, if America, or Reagan, or Bush, etc. were to use Muhammad's standards, they would engage in killing quite a few Muslims.  They would have used Islamic standards on the Muslims.  But we know that the chanting of a crowd of hot-heads does not necessitate the use of violence against them.  There are better ways to deal with critics and criticisms.  Frequently, in the passion of youth, people do and say things they don't intend to act out, or are not able to carry out.  Given time, people can change, and pursue peaceful dialog.  But if one applied Muhammad's standards, American would be justified in bombing Tehran; Israel would be justified in wiping out hundreds of thousands of Arab Muslims.

 

 

            The only conclusion is that this lady troubled Muhammad and he wanted her silenced.  Again, like Abu Afak, she was murdered in the night while she slept.

 

            What type of people murder those that sleep?  Criminals.

 

 

ADDITIONAL OBSERVATIONS

 

1)         What alarms me the most about Islam is its disposition to violence and use of violence as a standard of God's will.

 

            Umayr is a perfect example of this.  Here is a Muslim man, a friend of Muhammad's, acting upon Muhammad's request and going into a woman's home under the cover of night.  He comes upon the women, sleeping in her bed with her child, and murders her by plunging a sword through her body.

 

            Afterwards, Muhammad tells the man that he has "helped God and his apostle".  If Allah were really threatened by this woman, I think He could have killed her Himself, don't you?  Does God need men to sneak around in the night and murder sleeping women?

 

 

 

2)         What kind of religion is Islam really?  Soon after Umayr murdered Asma, he went to her family and mocked them!  He was laughing in their faces that he had murdered their mother and that they were powerless to do anything about it!  Here is the quote again:

 

            "She had five sons, and when Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, "I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma.  Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting."

 

 

 

3)         Finally, similar to observation #1, look at the power of Islam.  Here is the quote:

 

            "That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma..... The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam."

 

            So then, the power of Islam is to go about and murder sleeping women in the night, and get away with it?  Does "might make right" ring true in Islam?  Is it "he who has the biggest sword is from Allah?  The only people I know who respect that kind of power are criminals.  Criminals who go out in the night and murder people while they sleep.

 

 

            We know that there are good and bad in all religions, but this case is different.  This event reflects upon the man who started Islam:  Islam is built upon Muhammad's words and deeds.  We see here that Muhammad had a woman brutally murdered.  She was killed because she spoke out against him, and she was merely a nuisance.

 



The fourth incident involves a Muslim man who murdered his own slave. From the Hadith of Abu Dawud [6].

Book 38, Number 4348:

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

END OF QUOTE


Here we see here that Muhammad allowed people to murder others just for insulting him. Here, a slave women, who was used as a concubine by her Muslim master, paid for her criticism of Muhammad with her life. Note here that one man murdered his own slave, who was the mother of two of his children!

A slave lady made fun of Muhammad and was brutally murdered and that action received Muhammad's sanction.   Now then, was that slave a threat? Were Muslims going to leave Islam because of a slave women's criticism? Of course not. Muhammad could not long tolerate any personal criticism; he didn't want his credibility undermined, so he allowed his followers to murder anyone who expressed different views.

Oh, by the way, before we move on, let me continue to quote from Abu Dawud. The note #3800 states:

"This shows that even if a Jew of any non-Muslim abuses the Prophet he will be killed. This is held by al-Laith, al-Shafi'i, Ahmad, and Ishaq."


When Jesus said His followers had to hate their families, even their own lives to follow Him, everyone knew He meant it as a comparison.... Jesus also commanded people to honor their fathers and mothers. But Muhammad allowed his followers to even murder members of their own families!




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The fifth incident involves another Muslim man named Amr Umayya, who was sent out by Muhammad to murder Muhammad's enemy Abu Sufyan, (Guillaume, op cit, and page 673). However, their assassination attempt failed. As he returned home, he met a one-eyed shepherd. The shepherd and the Muslim man both identified themselves as members of the same Arab clan. Prior to going asleep, the shepherd said that he would never become a Muslim. Umayya waited for the shepherd to fall asleep, and thereafter:

"as soon as the badu was asleep and snoring I got up and killed him in a more horrible way than any man has been killed. I put the end of my bow in his sound eye, then I bore down on it until I forced it out at the back of his neck."

Umayya returned and spoke with Muhammad. He relates......."He [Muhammad] asked my news and when I told him what had happened he blessed me".

So, Muhammad blessed one of his men who murdered a one-eyed shepherd while he slept. Another person who didn't want to follow Muhammad, another murder in Islam's name. Muhammad's trail of blood continued to grow.




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The sixth incident involves the actions of Muslims who were sent out by Muhammad on a raid against the Fazara tribe. The Muslims were initially defeated by the Fazara. The wounded Muslim leader swore vengeance. After he recovered he went out and attacked the Fazara again. One very old women was captured. Here is the account from Guillaume, op cit, and page 665:

"....and Umm Qirfa Fatima was taken prisoner. She was a very old women, wife of Malik. Her daughter and Abdullah Masada were also taken. Zayd ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly (Tabari, by putting a rope to her two legs and to two camels and driving them until they rent her in two.)

END OF QUOTE


Here, Muhammad's companions went out and attacked people, took some prisoners, then committed some brutal atrocities against their captives. These men were so destitute of basic human values, that they ripped an old women in half by using camels! When one reads of the horrible things the Serbs have done, one is offended. But I wonder how many Muslims know that Muhammad himself did and sanctioned such things. Muhammad was every bit as brutal as the Nazis.





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The 7th incident involves another slave woman who was murdered, upon Muhammad's command because she had mocked Muhammad some time earlier.
From Guillaume, op cit, page 550, 551:

"Another [to be killed] was Abdullah Khatal of B. Taym b. Ghalib. He had become a Muslim and the apostle sent him to collect the poor tax in company with one of the Ansar. He had with him a freed slave who served him. (He was Muslim). When they halted he ordered the latter to kill a goat for him and prepare some food, and went to sleep. When he woke up the man had done nothing, so he attacked and killed him and apostatized. He had two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he ordered that they should be killed with him."

END OF QUOTE


Let's stop here and examine this paragraph. Muhammad ordered that a man who apostatized, and his two slave girls, be killed. Khatal was ordered to be killed not because he killed his male slave, a Muslim, but because he apostatized. Islamic law does not allow a Muslim man to be put to death for killing a slave. Muhammad also ordered two slave girls to be killed for singing satirical songs about him. They sung satirical songs about Muhammad probably at least a year or more earlier. Now, after Muhammad conquered Mecca, it was his time to pay those slave girls back. These slave girls were not threats to Islam, or to the new Islamic State. They were only slave girls. They were ordered to be executed only because they sang a silly song about Muhammad. Page 551 finishes the story of the slave girls:

"As for Ibn Khatal's two singing girls, one was killed and the other ran away until the apostle, asked for immunity, gave it to her."


Needless to say, if the second slave girl didn't ask for "immunity", Muhammad would have had her murdered also.

How do you feel when you hear of Serbs murdering Bosnian and Kosovo women? Yet Muhammad did exactly that - he had women murdered just for making fun of him. If a Muslim justified Muhammad's murder of slave girls, then by their standards, they have to justify what the Serbs are doing in Kosovo.




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REVIEW

We see that Muhammad had many people murdered. By request, by command, by implication, Muhammad had many people murdered, many killed while they slept. There were no trials, no judgments, no dialog. If you insulted Muhammad, if you doubted his credibility and if you spoke out, you were murdered.  Men and women, young and old, all were killed because of Muhammad's hatred toward those who spoke out against him.

Here is a summary of the 7 terrorist murders committed upon Muhammad's requests or efforts:

1) Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish man who was murdered because he was simply a Jew
2) Abu Afak, a 120-year-old man, murdered while he slept
3) Asma Marwan, mother of 5 children, murdered while she slept
4) A slave women, mother of two children, murdered while she slept
5) A one-eyed shepherd, murdered while he slept
6) A very old women, literally ripped in half by Muslims who captured her on a raid.
7) A slave girl, who was murdered because she poked fun at Muhammad.

I will add that there were many more people who suffered a similar fate. I choose not to list them here because of space limitations.


Make no mistake about it: Muhammad was a terrorist. Today's Muslim terrorists follow his actions. Like prophet, like followers; today's Muhammadan terrorists commit their acts based upon what Muhammad did.

Many Muslims are peace-loving people and are thoroughly disgusted about the acts of Islamic terrorism. Most Muslims do not know these historical facts about their own prophet. But Muslim terrorists are usually well-educated in Islam. They are pious people. Spiritual leaders. And they do what they do and how they do it following the example of their prophet.

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QUESTIONS


1) What kind of man was Muhammad that he would have peaceful Jews, a 120 year old man, a mother of 5 children, slave girls, etc. murdered because they disagreed or criticized him?

2) Is it right to murder others simply because they disagree with your, or even mock you? Why couldn't Muhammad handle some criticism? Do people who disagree with others deserve to be murdered, in cold blood, in the night, secretly, while they sleep? Don't corrupt politicians or organized criminals do that?

3) Isn't this type of action similar to the actions of Muslim terrorists today? They operate secretly, they kill unsuspecting people, and they murder without law or justice. They kill those who merely disagree or even verbally oppose them.

4) Are these "Islamic" values compatible with our values in America? Should Americans who criticize Muhammad expect to have their freedom of speech threatened, or should they live in fear of being killed for speaking their mind? Remember, Muslims in America have already begun to murder Americans for the sake of Islam.

5) If Muhammad put this system in place, i.e., the murdering of people who disagree and criticize him, how does it affect Islamic society? How does it relate to what we have seen done in Islamic societies such as Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, and Sudan? The end result has been brutal massacres, murders, tortures, etc. This is all traceable to Muhammad's actions.

6) If Muhammad were alive today, and we knew of the people he had murdered, what would you say? Wouldn't we want to see this type of man pay for his crimes, put in jail for life, or even executed? Who feels sorry for that white racist who was sentenced to death for dragging that black man and killing him? Yet Muhammad had a man tortured then murdered, just to get money. Muslims are commanded to follow Muhammad's "lifestyle" and Islamic law. Murdering others, in Islam's name is part of that style and system.

7) Don't we have the right to judge Muhammad according to the best moral standards we know of? He claimed to be the last prophet of God. He claimed his system was God's final system for all mankind. So by our standards, don't you think that what Muhammad did was terribly wrong? If our standards are better than his, then how does his self-asserted "prophethood" really rate? Why should our standards eclipse those of God's final prophet?

8) Doesn't this sound exactly like what the Serbs are doing? We see the Serbs committing some of the most brutal atrocities in history. Yet Muhammad did the same things. The Serbs have murdered the Kosovars simply because they were not Serbs. This is exactly what Muhammad ordered when he urged his follower to murder the Jews. We see the Serbs taking the possessions of the Kosovars. This is exactly what Muhammad did to the tribes of people he attacked. We see the Serbs raping Kosovan women. Muhammad allowed his soldiers to rape female slaves. If Muhammad were alive today, we'd call him a Serb or a Nazi!

9) Why couldn't Muhammad murder her himself? Why is it that every time Muhammad wanted someone killed, he always got someone else to do his killing?

10) Look at this dark side of Islam. This is the Islam Muhammad practiced. When the founder of a religion has to have powerless women murdered in the night for opposing him, how can that religion be described?


11) Where are "human rights" now in Islam? If Muhammad denied freedom of speech to others, how does that reflect upon Islam and what we see occurring in the Islamic world today?

12) Why is it that the more fundamentalist Muslim nations become, the more oppressive they are toward all basic human rights?


Take the Taliban for instance. They have been great fighters. But once in power, they began to oppress the populace, and specifically, women. Initially, they said it was only temporary, but it has continued to get worse, not better for Afghani women as time proceeded. Here is a website that deals with their oppression:

http://www.rawa.org/




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TERRORISM IN THE QURAN

Muhammad taught his followers to oppress or kill non-Muslims. Generally, Jews and Christians were allowed to live as such, provided they paid a special tax. This tax is Jizya, a tax revenue given to the Muslims to make up for revenues they lost from no longer dealing in pagan activities. If the Jews and Christians refused to pay this extortion tax they would have to convert to Islam or be killed. Non Jews or Christians (idolaters or pagans) had to convert to Islam or be killed. Generally they didn't have the option of paying the tax. Here is the verse that teaches Muslims to oppress Jews and Christians:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, (which is Islam that abolishes all other religions ) of the people of the Book, (meaning the Jews and the Christians ) until they pay the Jizya (the tax imposed upon them) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (with humiliation and submission to the government of Islam.) 9:29 ." (Commentary in parenthesis is from the Tafsir Al-Jalalein. i.e., Al-Jalalein Interpretation of the Koran.)

The order to kill Christians and Jews is in that verse. It is clear that Muhammad ordered his followers to fight those Christians and Jews to convert them or pay the Jizya, and if they don't convert or pay, do you think that he told the followers to let them go in peace? It is very clear: convert... or pay with submission ... or die.

The background for this is found in "The Life of Muhammad", op cit, page 620,

"...."until they [the Jews and Christians] pay the poll tax out of hand being humbled", i.e. as a compensation for what you fear to lose by the closing of the markets. God gave them compensation for what He cut off from them in their former polytheism by what He gave them by way of poll tax from the people of Scripture."


Muhammad told his followers to attack the Jews and Christians. If they humble themselves and submit to the Muslims, but choose to remain Christian or Jewish, then they would have to pay the Muslims. Again, Muhammad's circumstances changed - Allah changed. Now Muhammad was an extortionist.

Also note that the tax levied upon the Christians and Jews was not to support the state in general affairs, it was to compensate the Muslims. Muhammad was exactly like Mafia crime boss, making others pay for "protection".... except, the Christians and Jews really needed protection from the Muslims!



Here is the verse in the Quran that teaches Muslims to attack and kill pagans:

"When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Sura 9:5

The background for this verse is found in "The Life of Muhammad", op cit, page 617-619. Note my comments are in [ ] type brackets, and that it is a very long passage, so I have only quoted part of it:

"A discharge came down, [Muhammad received a supposed revelation from God], permitting the breaking of the agreement between the apostle and the polytheists that none should be kept back from the temple when he came to it, and that none need fear during the sacred months. That there was a general agreement between him and the polytheists; meanwhile there were particular agreements between the apostle and the Arab tribes for specified terms. And there came down about it and about the disaffected who held back from him in the raid on Tabuk, [a Christian town Muhammad attacked, and forced them to pay him], .....So travel through the land for four months and know that you cannot escape God and that God will put the unbelievers to shame. And a proclamation from God and His apostle to men on the day of the greater pilgrimage that God and His apostle are free from obligation to the polytheists, i.e., after this pilgrimage. So if you repent it will be better for you; and if you turn back know that you cannot escape God. Inform those who disbelieve, about a painful punishment except those polytheists with whom you have made a treaty.
.....If one of the polytheists, i.e. one of those whom I have ordered you to kill, asks your protection, give it him so that he may hear the word of God; then convey him to his place of safety.

END OF QUOTE


Basically, Muhammad had an agreement with a number of Arab tribes. Some were peaceful with him, others disliked him. "Allah" gave Muhammad a "revelation" allowing him to break his word, the "agreement" with the pagan Arabs and attack them after the four sacred months were over. Once again, Muhammad had gained power, and things changed. Now Muhammad was permitted to lie, i.e., break his agreement, and make war upon the pagans. Muhammad's circumstances changed - Allah changed again.

Note that in the last quoted paragraph, it is supposed to be God telling the Muslims to go out and kill people. Some of these people had gotten along peacefully with the Muslims. But because they didn't follow Muhammad, they were going to be attacked.




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ISLAMIC TERRORISM UPON MUSLIMS WHO LEAVE ISLAM

Muhammad was not content to conquer by force, or kill those that merely opposed him verbally. Muhammad also taught that Muslims who leave the Islamic faith are to be murdered as well. Here are some quotes from Bukhari's collection of Hadith. Remember, Bukhari's Hadith is the second most important writing in Islam, following the Quran.


Bukhari, volume 9, #17

"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."


Bukhari volume 9, #57

Narrated Ikrima, "Some atheists were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's messenger forbade it, saying, "Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire)." I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."

Bukhari volume 9, #64

Narrated Ali, "Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's messenger, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky, then ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you, (not a Hadith), then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's messenger saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will leave the faith) and will go out from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."


Not only did Muhammad teach that Muslims are to murder those that have left Islam, "wherever you find them", he further taught that a Muslim who commits this type of murder will be doing God's service and be rewarded!




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RECENT MUSLIM WRITINGS ON ISLAM AND TERRORISM

Several Muslims have written about the reasons they are allowed to wage war. From "The Quranic Concept of War", by Pakistani Brigadier S.K. Malik, it says, [in the preface]

"But in Islam war is waged to establish supremacy of the Lord only when every other argument has failed to convince those who reject His Will and work against the every purpose of the creation of mankind."

"Many Western Scholars have pointed their accusing fingers at some of the above verses in the Quran to be able to contend that world of Islam is in a state of perpetual struggle against the non-Muslims. As to them it is a sufficient answer to make... that the defiance of God's authority by one who is His slaves exposes that slave to the risk of being held guilty of treason and as such a one, in the perspective of Islamic law, is indeed to be treated as a sort of that cancerous growth on that organism of humanity.... It thus becomes necessary to remove the cancerous malformation even if it be by surgical means, in order to save the rest of humanity."

END OF QUOTE


The Muslim writer states that those that reject Islam are viewed as a cancerous growth to be violently removed, i.e., murdered. And, note that the Muslim writer basically agrees with the "Western Scholars" that say that Islam is indeed "in a state of perpetual war", with non-Muslims.

In viewing what has happened in Algeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. it appears that Islam is the cancerous growth that has caused such death to the world.


ISLAMIC TERRORISM IN THE WORLD TODAY

There are a fair amount of websites that document the actions and intentions of the many Islamic terrorist groups operating throughout the world today. As true Muslims, these people will use violence against anyone who hinders their aims or offends their religious beliefs. Here is a partial listing of a number of websites I've seen on the internet.


http://www.emergency.com/cntrterr.htm
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http://www.state.gov/www/global/terrorism/1997report/
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http://www.hri.org/docs/USSD-Terror/97/mideast.html
overview of Middle East terrorism
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yearly overview
http://www.hri.org/docs/USSD-Terror/
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http://www.terrorism.com
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http://polisci.home.mindspring.com/ptd.html
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http://polisci.home.mindspring.com/ptd_incidents_1998.html
62 documented incidents - 31 by Muslims
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http://polisci.home.mindspring.com/ptd_middle_africa.html
listing of Mid-east Muslim terrorist groups
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http://www.ict.org.il/
international terrorism group
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ISLAMIC TERRORISM IN AMERICA TODAY

 

Here are some summaries of Islamic terrorism in America or against Americans

 

 

#1)       Osama bin Laden, one of the Islamic world's leading terrorists was behind the bombing of the American Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.  Twelve Americans were killed and there were hundreds of other deaths due to the bombings.  Bin Laden has declared open season on American civilians, women and children included.  He says Islamic scholars have allowed the targeting of civilians because their taxes support the American military, therefore, they too are at war with Bin Laden's Islamic goals.

 

            Bin Laden was interviewed by a Muslim journalist, and the interview appears in the Jan 11, 1999 issue of Newsweek.  Here are some excerpts:

 

QUESTION:    "Why have you asked Muslims to target civilian Americans all over the world?  Islam prohibits its followers from killing civilians in war?"

 

BIN LADEN:  "If the Israelis are killing small children in Palestine and the Americans are killing the innocent people in Iraq, and if the majority of the American people support their dissolute president, this means the American people are fighting us and we have the right to target them.

 

QUESTION:  "All Americans?"

 

BIN LADEN  "Muslim scholars have issued a fatwa [a religious order] against any American who pays taxes to his government.  He is our target, because he is helping the American war machine against the Muslim nation.

 

 

 

Below is an excerpt from ABC news.

 

ABCNEWS.com  (on Osama bin Laden - edited for length)

 

His fatwa was clear: Americans must die, within the next few weeks.

 

U.S. troops will leave Saudi Arabia when Islamic terrorists "send the bodies of American troops and civilians home in wooden boxes and coffins," Osama Bin Ladin vowed in an exclusive interview with ABC NEWS Correspondent John Miller. "We don't differentiate between those dressed in military uniforms and civilians. They are all targets in this fatwa."

 

Bin Ladin recently convened a meeting of fundamentalist extremists and sponsors of terrorism. More than 150 clerics named themselves the "International Islamic Front for the Jihad against Jews and Crusaders," and issued a variety of fatwas. But Bin Ladin's is the one that most concerns U.S. security analysts.

 

 

 

 

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#2)       Bombing the World Trade Center in New York

 

            On February 26, 1993, Muslim terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in New York City, killing 6 people and injuring over 1000 more.  It was found that these terrorists were tied in with a Muslim cleric named Sheik Omar Abd al-Rahman, who was also accused of terrorist actions in Egypt.  Omar preached that the United States is a den of evil and fornication and regularly called upon Muslims to attack their enemies.

 

 

 

#3)       In June 1993 eight Muslims were arrested by the FBI.  There were reportedly planning bombings targeting the United Nations headquarters, FBI offices, and the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, as well as several assassinations.

 

 

 

#4)       In Jan. 1993, a Pakistani Muslim shot and killed several CIA employees outside of the CIA headquarters.  He fled to Pakistan.  Later he was apprehended and returned to America for trial.  The day after he was found guilty, Pakistanis in Pakistan murdered four American businessmen - probably as revenge for our judicial system finding their comrade guilty.

 

 

 

#5)       An arrested Hamas terrorist in Israel told authorities that Hamas leaders in held a workshop in Chicago where Hamas inductees were taught how to make car bombs.

 

 

 

#6)       Last year, a Muslim who converted to Christianity was attacked and his home was firebombed by Muslims in Minnesota.

 

 

 

#7)       On November 4th, 1979, Muslims in Iran took many American Embassy employees hostage.  There were held for 444 days.  Some died in captivity.  They were released around the time Ronald Reagan became president.

 

 

 

#8)  Here is another foiled terrorist attempt in America....

 

Palestinian Guilty in Subway Plot

 

NEW YORK (AP) - A Palestinian who said he wanted to kill as many Jews ``as I could take'' was convicted today of plotting to blow up a busy subway station. Gazi Ibrahim Abu Mezer, who faces life in prison, jumped to his feet after the verdict was read and shouted ``Allahu Akbar! (God is great)'' as he held up the Koran, the Muslim holy book. The federal jury acquitted a second Palestinian, Lafi Khalil, of plotting the suicide-bombing. Last Monday, testifying against his lawyers' wishes, Abu Mezer said he had planned to ``martyr'' himself and kill ``as many (Jews) as I could take.''

 

 

 

#9)       In Nov., 1989, a Palestinian Muslim and his wife, murdered their own 14 daughter.  Their daughter had not lived according to their view of Islam.  Finally, the father and mother assaulted the girl.  The mother held the girl down while the father stabbed her to death.  Unknown to this Muslim family, this man was under investigation by the FBI, and a bug had legally been planted in the house.  The entire murder was called on tape.  As the girl struggled and begged her mother to help her, the father said in Arabic, "Die, die quickly, die quickly”.

 

            This murder is written about in People magazine, 1/20/92.

 

 

 

#10)     Even in America's military there are Muslim who are charged with aiding the terrorists who have murdered American citizens.  The following is from a recent news article:

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A former U.S. Army sergeant was indicted Wednesday for allegedly participating in a conspiracy led by Saudi exile Osama bin Laden to kill Americans abroad.

Ali Mohamed, 46, was charged with acting with others including bin Laden's group al Qaeda to plan the murders of U.S. military personnel stationed in Saudi Arabia and Somalia and last August's bombings of the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania.  Bin Laden, a fugitive, was indicted last year for the attacks. The charges filed Wednesday allege that in September Mohamed lied to a Manhattan federal grand jury investigating al Qaeda's role in last year's African bombings.  According to information from the U.S. Army Reserve Personnel Center, Mohamed was in the reserves at the time of some of the alleged offenses. He joined the

reserves in 1989 after a term of active duty and left the reserves in 1994.  Mohamed, a former major in the Egyptian Army, was granted a visa to enter the United States in 1985 and became an American citizen. According to U.S. Army Reserve he enlisted in the U.S. Army in 1986 and was stationed at Fort Bragg, N.C.

            The indictment charges that at least as early as 1989, bin Laden and others made efforts to recruit U.S. citizens including Mohamed to travel in the Western world to help al Qaeda carry out operations.  It is also charged that as early as 1990 Mohamed provided military and intelligence training for al Qaeda in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sudan. The indictment further alleges that Mohamed, with others, helped bin Laden in 1991 to move from Peshawar, Pakistan, to Sudan.  The indictment charges that bin Laden, an exiled Saudi multi-millionaire, issued a fatwa, or religious decree, calling for the killing of U.S. citizens and financed the embassy bombings and other attacks on Americans.  It is alleged that al Qaeda functioned both on its own and through other organizations that operated under its umbrella, including the Al Jihad group based in Egypt and the Islamic Group that was led by Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman.  The sheik was convicted in 1996 for a plot to bomb New York City landmarks and kill political and religious figures.

            The indictment accuses Mohamed of sending a document about Abdel Rahman's trial to another defendant in Kenya for delivery to bin Laden. Court papers do not describe the document, sent from California in 1995.  Another part of the indictment alleges that Mohamed traveled to Nairobi in 1994 using a fake Egyptian passport. He then showed his U.S. passport to enter the U.S. embassy there.  The indictment alleges that the same year he met members of al Qaeda and reviewed files ``concerning possible terrorist attacks'' against the embassy in Nairobi and other places in Nairobi, including the building housing the U.S.  Agency for International Development and British, French and Israeli targets.  It is further charged that Mohamed discussed targets in countries other than Kenya. According to the indictment as of August of last year, Mohamed had documents about surveillance and explosives and ``the planning of terrorist operations and the structuring of a terrorist group into different cells.''

 

 

 

 

 

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Fortunately, America is not a hotbed of Islamic terrorism.   Not yet anyway.  Unfortunately, Muslim terrorists are at work all throughout the world.  Violence is part and parcel with Islam.  Here is just a small sampling of some of the Islamic terrorist actions that have occurred in the last 15 years.

 

 

ISLAMIC ACTIONS OF TERRORISM TODAY IN THE WORLD

 

 

FRANCE - Several years ago, Muslim terrorist began bombing innocent French civilians.  Here is one article:

 

TERROR Campaign widens; Bomb in Paris Subway

 

Chicago, IL., July 25, 1995 --At least four (4)people were killed and another 35 wounded in an afternoon terror attack that took place today in the Paris Saint-Michel underground station, near the Latin quarter. Police officials are investigating and wouldn't immediately comment, but French Prime Minister Alain Juppe is quoted by the Reuters News service as saying that he believes that "there is a very strong suspicion of a (terrorist) attack".

 

            These attacks were similar to bombings carried out by Muslim terrorists in France in 1986, in which dozens of people were killed.

 

 

 

 ALGERIA

 

            Approximately 100,000 people have been killed in Algeria during the last 7 years or so.  Below is one story from one of the survivors of an Islamic terrorist attack.  The Muslim terrorists are not responsible for all the deaths; the Algerian police and Army have also killed many.  However, the Muslim terrorists frequently target civilians, children, and those that are unable to defend themselves.  I've read one account where Muslim terrorists stabbed to death 4 French nuns.

 

 

Islamic guerrillas hold captive brides hostage to terror

By  Martin Regg Cohn Toronto Star Middle East Bureau

 

BLIDA, Algeria - In the dead of night, in the name of Islam, four terrorists burst into the

home of 17-year-old Salima  Amina Zenagui.

 

Accusing her of loose morals, the Islamic fundamentalists ordered Zenagui to cover her auburn hair with a hijab head-scarf. Then they abducted her at gunpoint to their underground hideout, where the teenager was forced to marry a terrorist twice her age.

After a religious wedding ceremony, he raped her - with a warning that any resistance would mean certain death.  The bleeding didn't stop for 15 days. The mental torture, and the physical cruelty, continued for another five months.  During the long nights and endless days, Zenagui slowly lost her sanity. And the will to live.

 

Zenagui is one of thousands of young women and teenage girls believed to have been kidnapped by fundamentalist terrorists during Algeria's five-year Islamic insurgency. Forced into so-called temporary marriages that are a religious license to rape, their screams are soon silenced.

 

Most of the victims have their throats slit, their bodies dumped in wells like the one discovered last week in Bentalha, just outside Algiers. Police were drawn by the stench of death to the 40-metre-deep well, where they found about 30 badly decomposed corpses of women and girls believed to have been abducted and raped after a massacre in the area a month ago.

 

Known as "zawaj al mutaa", or "marriage of pleasure,'' the controversial practice is disdained by mainstream Muslims today. It dates from Islam's early years, when fighters in a holy war helped themselves to single women during periods of hardship or isolation.

 

Zenagui believes her captors were fundamentalist terrorists from the GIA, who rationalize rape as a way of motivating their men to sacrifice themselves for Islam. Even as they mistreat their captive women, they worship their God.  In their hideout, Zenagui watched them pray toward Mecca five times a day. They read the Koran, Islam's holy book, and often played inspirational cassette tapes about the Prophet Mohammed.

 

Many of the insurgency's 100,000 victims perished in these killing fields.

 

 

 

ARGENTINA

            In March 1992, Muslim terrorists blew up the Israeli embassy in Argentina, killing 29 people.

 

            On July 18, 1994 a car bomb blew up the Argentine-Israeli Mutual Association, killing nearly one hundred people.

 

 

 

ENGLAND

            In August, 1994 two car bombs blew up in London, one at the Israeli Embassy and another at a Jewish charity shop.  An Iranian expatriate by the name of Manoucher Motamer indicated that Iran was responsible for the bombings.

 

 

 

JAPAN

            In July, 1991, a Muslim murdered Hitoshi Igarashi the Japanese man who translated "The Satan Verses" into Japanese.  He was stabbed to death in Tokyo.  A Muslim living in Britain - Abdul Quddus, who is a senior vice president of Britain's Muslim league, said, "The attacks are justified because people translating the book are also insulting the faith."

 

 

INDONESIA

 

            The Voice of the Martyrs Magazine writes that, "around 280 churches have been burned, demolished, stoned, attached and closed since 1991 in Indonesia (Sept 1996 issue).  [That number is up to around 500 churches today.]  The article continues, "The June 9, 1996 attack in Surabaya, the second largest city in the country was the worst yet as 10 churches were simultaneously by Muslim mobs."  The article further records that 5,000 Muslims took part in the riots.

 

            Again, these actions are not the work of a few select terrorists.  They are the work of normal Muslims.  They know that Islam is fundamentally violent, and as Muslims they exercised their faith to attack and destroy Churches.  It was their type of Jihad for Allah.

 

 

ITALY

            A Muslim stabbed, but failed to kill, Ettore Capriolo, the man who translated "The Satanic Verses" into Italian.  The attack occurred in Milan Italy.

 

 

EGYPT

            In Sept 1991, in Imbaba, a district of Cairo, hundreds of Muslims attacked the minority Christians there, burning down a church with a Pastor's wife inside.  Other churches were attacked, and Christians were beaten.  The government had to send in 3000 troops to stop the Muslims from continuing to attack the Christians.

 

            During the last 8 years in Egypt, hundreds of Coptic Christians have been murdered by Muslims in Egypt.  Even worshippers in church have been sprayed by Muslims welding automatic weapons.

 

CAIRO, Egypt (CNN) -- At least 60 people were killed on Monday when unidentified gunmen opened fire at the world famous temple site of Luxor in southern Egypt, according to the interior ministry.  The death toll makes it the deadliest attack on tourists in Egypt.

            Authorities said tourists from Egypt, Switzerland, Germany and Japan were among those killed in the attack, which took place about 300 miles (500 km) south of Cairo.  State television issued a brief statement saying "attackers hit a number of foreigners, Egyptians and policemen who exchanged fire with them," and the statement added that

six attackers were killed in the shoot-out with police.

A spokesman for a travel agency in Luxor was quoted as saying that the gunmen opened fire indiscriminately on tourists after the tourists got off a bus and were about to enter a temple in the morning.

The assailants later left an empty tour bus, which they had apparently hijacked in an escape attempt, and reportedly fled toward the desert and nearby mountains.  One hijacker was shot to death at the shooting scene and the other five were killed in a later shoot-out, according to the interior ministry.  The authorities have canceled all flights in and out of Luxor as a security precaution.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the attack, but Muslim extremists have repeatedly targeted tourist spots in recent years in an attempt to hurt one of the country's key industries and destabilize the government.

 

 

A L S O :

 

List of fatal attacks on visitors in Egypt since 1992

 

Prior to Monday, attacks by Muslim militants had killed 34 international tourists in the past five years. Overall, about 1,100 people have been killed since 1992, when the extremists launched their campaign aimed at ousting President Hosni Mubarak.

 

 

 

NIGERIA

            In Oct. 1991, thousands of Muslims attacked Christian churches, businesses, and homes in Kano, Nigeria.  Kano is in northern Nigeria, which is predominately Muslim.  It was estimated that 300 Christians were murdered by Muslim mobs.  Muslims were upset because Christian evangelists had been converting Muslims in the region to Christianity.

 

 

PAKISTAN

When the Muslims in Pakistan found a torn up Quran in a mosque, 30,000 Muslims attacked the only majority Christian town (Shanti Nagar) in Pakistan and destroyed half of it!   Churches were burned, businesses were destroyed, and women and girls were raped.  The army had to come in to stop the Muslims.  A worldwide outcry against the action prompted Pakistan's Prime Minister Sheriff to help re-build the Christian homes, churches, businesses that were destroyed.

 

            This action was not the work of an organized terrorist group, rather it was a display of real Islam.  There was no Bin Laden leading this effort, there was no Hamas or Hezbollah orchestrating the action, it was ordinary Muslims, 30,000 of them, attacking a Christian village, because they thought that some Christian had torn up a Quran. 

 

 

            When Muhammad got offended, he murdered.... today, Muslims get offended, they murder.  It is motivated by one and the same evil satanic spirit - the same dark spirit that appeared to Muhammad which caused him to attempt suicide - the same malevolent spirit that then talked him out of killing himself.... it had better plans for him.  The same demonic spirit that had him massacre 800 Jewish men and adolescent boys, then enslave their women and children.   These Jews had never clashed swords with Muhammad or his men until he attacked them.  It had a thirst for blood, and during Muhammad's last 10 years, the blood flowed.

 

 

 

            Not only have Muslims attacked non-Muslims in Pakistan (Hindus have also been attacked and murdered in Pakistan), but they religious strife between Sunni and Shia Muslims there has taken the lives of hundreds during the last few years.  Bombings of each other's mosques and gun fights outside of Mosques have taken place.  Even inside of the Mosques, people have been shot.

 

 

 

 

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            There are many more stories to be found; all over the world, Muslim terrorists, operating for Islam's sake, are attacking, bombing, and murdering those they feel inhibit their aims.  Visit the already mentioned websites for more details on the actions of Islamic terrorists worldwide.

 

 

 

            One writer, Samuel Huntington, commenting on Islam and the rest of the world states wrote in "The Clash of Civilizations",

 

            "Violence also occurs between Muslims, on the one hand, and Orthodox Serbs in the Balkans, Jews in Israel, Hindus in India, Buddhists in Burma and Catholics in the Philippines.  Islam has bloody borders."

 

 

            The French philosopher Renan said, "Muslims are the first victim of Islam".  This is true.  Muslims loosen much of their desire for blood upon their Muslim brethren... it's the spirit of Islam.  Those that are not Muslim enough are the first to feel the blades of Islam.  However, many non-Muslims are also it's victims.  Innocents are murdered by Muslims, and the Muslims are not slaking their efforts in developing more sophisticated methods of using terror against those who are not of their ilk.

 

 

 

            Violence is integral to Islam.

 

 

 

 

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HOW DO MOST MUSLIMS LIVING IN AMERICA FIT IN?

 

            Most Muslims are not terrorists.  Many of them reject the actions of their Muslim brethren around the world.  Unfortunately, since Islam teaches world domination, these moderate Muslims rarely raise their voices in protest.  If the Israelis bomb Hezbollah camps in Lebanon, Muslims in New York, Detroit, and Los Angeles will organize a mass demonstration.  But getting Muslims to condemn the terrorist actions of their brethren, say of those in Sudan, Egypt, Algeria, Afghanistan, Iraq is like pulling teeth.  While the Muslims world wide continually condemn Israel, few Muslims have ever raised their voices in protest over Saddam Hussein's genocidal war upon the Kurds.  Why has Bin Laden failed to help the Kurds?  Instead, reports on Bin Laden now show that he is working together with Saddam Hussein.  Israel has never killed that many Muslims, but Muslims often turn a blind eye to violent acts when it is Muslim on Muslim violence.

 

 

            What does the future for Islam in America hold?  One thing I am certain of; it holds terrorism.  I've studied Islamic viewpoints on America.  The majority of Muslims today view America as the last great wall that stops Islam.  In their mind, America must be destroyed or brought down, by any means necessary.  This is what motivated Sheik Rahman to blow up the New York towers.  This is what motivates Muslims throughout America to speak of a day when America will fall to Islam's power.  Make no mistake about it, Muslims have murdered Americans in America, and will continue to do so.  It is not a question of "if", it is a question of "when again", because "when" has already started.

 

            Once again I say, not all Muslims in America are terrorists.  Many of them are good people.  But the seeds of terrorism are planted deep within the theology of Islam.  This theology, when free to grow and blossom, shows itself in the actions normal Muslims, in Muslim countries take when they feel that Islam is challenged.  The previously mentioned mob attack in Pakistan, and the attacks of the Muslim mobs in Nigeria and Indonesia, are examples of Muslim - Islamic violence - mob mentality.  And as was demonstrated in "Not Without My Daughter", who knows when a peaceful, liberal or moderate Muslim will turn to fundamentalism and embrace the violence of Islam?

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

CONCLUSION

 

            Muhammad was a terrorist.  Based upon Muhammad's actions and teachings, Islam justifies terrorism.  Today, Muslims use that justification to attack and murder those who differ from them.   Muslim terrorists follow in Muhammad's footsteps.

 

            Jesus condemned those who murdered without repentance ...."Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood"  Revelations 22:15.  Muhammad falls into that category.

 

            Jesus said in John 8:44 that Satan was a murderer from the beginning, and that those who sought to murder Him were Satan's children.  As soon as he could, Muhammad began to have people murdered.  Today, Muhammad's children do the same works.

 

            Jesus taught that one day people would murder Christians thinking they would be doing service to God.  Today, in Muslim countries, like Iran for instance, Muslims murder ex-Muslims who have become Christians.  And in other countries, they attack and threaten others.

 

            Jesus taught to love your enemies, to pray for those that persecute you.  Jesus didn't send his disciples out to murder people in the night, Muhammad did.  Take the example of Christ and the Samaritans opposition to Jesus.

 

            "As the time approached for Him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem.  And he set messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem.  When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?"  And he said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of, for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."  And they went to another village."  Luke 10:51-56

 

            Muhammad would have ordered his men to attack the Samaritan village, then kill or enslave the people, and take all their possession as plunder.  After Muhammad gained power, he sent his armies out to attack non-Muslims.

 

            Who then really brought God's message of His love for mankind?  Who really taught peace?

 

Surely, this man Muhammad was not from God.  Instead, Muhammad is one of the false prophets Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:11 -

 

"and many false prophets shall arise and deceive many".

 

 

 

The author welcomes feedback, questions, critical or supportive responses via email.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REFERENCES

1          "The Life of Muhammad", by A. Guillaume, pub. by Oxford Univ. Press.

 

2          "Muhammad and the Jews of Medina", by Weinsnick, page 113:

 

3          Tabari's History, page 97 of volume 7

 

4          "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir", (Book of the Major Classes), by Ibn Sa'd, translated

 by S. Moinul Haq, published by the Pakistan Historical Society.

 

5          "23 Years:  A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad", by Ali Dashti, pub.

by Mazda. Translated by F.R.C. Bagley.

 

6          "Sunan Abu Dawud", translated by Ahmad Hasan, pub by Al-Medina Publications.

 

 

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terrorism.htm
5/20/99


Concluding Remarks regarding the attacks of September 11

The endless cycle of violence in Israel, of attack and counter attack between Palestinians and Israelis has shown that this cannot be the way to peace. Both sides feel they have to take revenge because every time innocent lives on their own side have been killed.

There are institutional and personal aspects of response.

Governments have the God-given duty to keep peace and order in the society, and this includes explicitly the punishment of criminals. The guilty need to be punished. The networks of Islamic terrorism need to be fought. But the western countries need to make very sure, they are only punishing the guilty and are not sacrificing innocent lives in blind revenge. We cannot lower our own standards of what is right because the enemy of radical Islamic groups does not have these standards himself and will without hesitation sacrifice innocents. The western world needs to show even in the executed punishment that it has different moral values. Many Islamic countries are in horrible condition and the majority of the population are destitute and already suffering under their governments and systems. Killing those people is not fitting for a nation who seeks to uphold justice and human rights but will only have the effect to radicalize more Muslims and fuel the cry for revenge from their side.

Many Middle Easterners in the USA are Christians who have left or fled the Middle East because in Islamic societies they were either directly persecuted or at best second class citizens. They have come to the West because they were longing for freedom and are absolutely loyal citizens, ready to defend their country as much as any other American. It would be a horrendous injustice to attack them verbally or physically just because they look Middle Eastern.

There are more than six million Muslims living in the USA today. They are largely normal people with hopes and fears, who just want to make a living, who work hard and honest to bring bread on the table and to allow their children to go to college. They also want to live in peace and would never think of committing terrorist acts. Most of them are themselves in utter shock as result of these atrocities. They have done nothing to deserve the hatred of other Americans. They are not guilty, and it is the duty of any upright, freedom loving person to stand up for them, even to give them shelter in their own homes, should others threaten to make them victims of self-appointed revenge.

The greatness of a society built on Christian values shows itself when it will not discriminate for any reason on the basis of race, culture or religion, even when attacked by some people from one specific group. America wants to be a champion of human rights around the world, and needs to make sure, she holds herself accountable to the same standards.

For Christians particularly, we have the command of our Lord to love our neighbor as ourselves; any neighbor, not only those who are like us. But we are called to particularly care for those who are disadvantaged or discriminated against and to stand up for those who can't defend themselves. And at this time this might well include Muslims in our neighborhood who are faced with and might suffer from unreflected anger of other Americans.

After you have read all of this...

I have agonized about the question whether I really should give this article a place on the "Answering Islam" web site and even more to link it so prominently from the front page at this time. I have done so, because thousands of people are asking questions where this Islamic terrorism is coming from. And they need to get answers that they will never get from the Muslims who appear in the media. What happened was not an isolated incident of a couple of mad men. The problem is much deeper and it is here to stay. And before any cure can be found, there needs to be the correct diagnosis.

However, I know that nearly every Muslim reading this article will be offended deeply. This is not my intention, but with the hundreds of messages I am getting now, and because I have a job and am handling Answering Islam in my spare time, I had no chance to write something new or do major revisions of this above article. The information is needed now. Therefore I have released it, even in a less than ideal form.

Muslims are raised from early childhood to revere the prophet Muhammad and to honor him highly. They are commanded to hold his honor more dear than their own lives or those of their family members. Even "secular" Muslims who do not practice Islam, who hardly ever perform the daily prayers and live a thoroughly non-religious life will usually respond immediately when confronted with any critique of the person of Muhammad. Any critical remark about Muhammad is worse than an insult to their own person. This is religiously and culturally conditioned. Therefore, I plead for sensitivity in the use of this information on the level of personal encounter. Do not use it for accusing and attacking Muslims in personal confrontation. It will destroy relationships. In many Islamic countries the death penalty is executed on those who insult Muhammad. In western countries, where this is not possible, it is still going to cause intense conflict if used as direct attack.

However, I am firmly convinced, all Muslims eventually need to deal with the history and sources of their religion. I think it is fair to calmly ask them to give their personal response on the teaching of the Quran regarding war against unbelievers, and about the example that Muhammad has set in dealing with critics of his person in his own life. But it might be best to postpone such questioning for some time, until the emotions have calmed down somewhat. Nobody who feels attacked or pressured (and Muslims feel this way now, due to the black color Islam is painted in everywhere these days), will be open to ponder even sincere questions, but build up inner or outer defense walls, or even explode in anger. Nothing is won by pressing this issue NOW with your personal Muslim friends, neighbors, co-workers, or aquaintances. Now we need to stand united with Muslims who are in shock just as everyone else and in opposition to this terror and support them in their opposition, without attacking the very foundation of their life.

God have mercy on us all

Webmaster, Answering Islam We are firm on our rejection of Islam as an unacceptable system, but we need to love and respect Muslims as people who have in the vast majority good intentions but have been deceived by this system. We need to distinguish between the people who seek to life an upright life before God and sincerely seek his favor, and the ideology of Islam, which is able to make itself look so good in many of its aspects, but needs to be exposed as to its true core to Muslims and non-Muslims alike. -->


Articles by Silas
Answering Islam Home Page


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; jihad; muhammad; rop
Dear Friends, please tell everyone you know to read this article. It reveals the ugly truth about Islam that everyone should know.
1 posted on 09/16/2001 6:45:46 AM PDT by BobfromMichigan2001 (Anti_Immigration_Man@yahoo.com)
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To: Dustbunny
Bump for future reading
2 posted on 09/16/2001 6:54:24 AM PDT by orlop9
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To: orlop9
Thanks for the Bump. I think this article is super important. I do not think that most Americans have any idea of just how evil Islam actually is. I wish there were some way to get more Freepers to read this. Or at least they could skim it and just read the red and blue highlighted text in the article. BobfromMichigan
3 posted on 09/16/2001 7:07:13 AM PDT by BobfromMichigan2001
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To: BobfromMichigan2001
If you look at the Christian bible...in particular the Old Testament,
you can see many actions that look just as "evil" as has been pointed out here.
The dark ages were justified by Christian "leaders" using selective passages from the Bible, as well as numerous other horrors.
I believe there is a passage in the Bible re: casting the log out of your own eye before looking for the speck in the other guy's.
It seems appropriate here.
4 posted on 09/16/2001 7:23:56 AM PDT by freefly
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To: BobfromMichigan2001
Amazing research. We still have a politically correct press and government who will ignore such information at our danger. This author is probably in great peril. I am personally convinced that this will be racheted up to such a level that nuclear weapons will finally be employed to end this calamity. Anything less than unconditional surrender is a delusion. This, in many ways, is far more dangerous than even WWII was because we don't know who our enemies are or where they can be found. Unfortunately, it now appears that they are among us.
5 posted on 09/16/2001 7:37:34 AM PDT by RichardW (rlwpaw206@goquest.com)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: crystal55t
"Name ONE Islamic country that has a immigrants waiting to get in."

I'm not saying that their "leaders" arn't scum on the bottom of a chamber pot...
I'm just saying that blaming the religion for their actions is simply not valid.
That's what the Taliban has done.
It's demonized Christians and Americans AS A GROUP and uses that to justify terrorism.
I don't like seeing "us" make the same mistake, using the same arguments, as they do.
7 posted on 09/16/2001 7:52:17 AM PDT by freefly
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To: freefly
You don't get it freefly.

The Crusades, and even the Inquisition, were and are not central or major tenets of Christianity as a belief system. You are persisting in attempting to understand Islam as an Anglican might attempt to understand a Methodist.

Freefly, that isn't going to work for you. JIHAD is THE foundation of Islam.
In regard to American Muslims: if they want to live here, they must follow our laws. That would mean that they must abandon many of the beliefs and practices of their religion: e.g. JIHAD, polygamy and female circumcision. Our laws say we must tolerate all religions, And in regard to Islam, Official America looks the other way.

However, it would be absolute folly to expect them to tolerate us as we do them.

8 posted on 09/16/2001 8:00:23 AM PDT by Francohio
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To: freefly
Ah, pretty weak. Christians are compelled to obey the New Testament. The old testament, in itself, is not the christian religion.
9 posted on 09/16/2001 8:28:39 AM PDT by Leisler
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To: Francohio
"..it would be absolute folly to expect them to tolerate us as we do them."

First, let me say that I am NOT a student of Islam.
I've read the religious writings of a variety of faiths and find it interesting how people choose to interpret them.
That being said, what I HAVE read always showed that Islam is SUPPOSED to be one of the most tolerant of religions.
It teaches that G*d is who would judge man, not other men, that any practitioner of another religion, including Jews,
Christians, etc, had just as good a chance as any Muslim of being favored by G*d.
Granted, that is NOT what is taught now by the current religious leaders (another concept that originally should not exist in Islam),
but it is not the 1st time that politics and religion have been combined to hold power over a people.
Or the last.
Like I say, what Islam says and what is being done in it's name do not seem to match up...
Any more than what the Bible really says/means and what the religious leaders taught did not match up during the dark ages.
10 posted on 09/16/2001 8:38:42 AM PDT by freefly
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To: Leisler
"Christians are compelled to obey the New Testament. The old testament, in itself, is not the christian religion."

I would agree.
(However, a lot of Christians would not...)
But, as I said, for a LONG part of the last 2000 years, the Old Testament was given at least as much weight
as the New (depending on what the "teacher/leader" wanted to justify) by Christians.
And, as I understand it, it is closely related to the Jewish Talmud/Torah...and the Jews do not acknowledge the
New Testament as being from a prophet of G*d (Jesus Christ) at all (apologies in advance if I am mistaken).
They base their religion off of the teachings of the Old Testament prophet Moses (more apologies).

Point being, religious writings of most of the major religions can look (or be made to look) quite ugly.
A lot of evil has been done in G*d's name.
I doubt that He approves of any of it.
11 posted on 09/16/2001 8:53:56 AM PDT by freefly
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To: BobfromMichigan2001
I've long believed that nations like the United States can only tolerate a very small minority population of Muslims or Hindus. I stand by that belief.
12 posted on 09/16/2001 8:54:42 AM PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: freefly
What one man views as blue, another may see as green. Sometimes, if they're stuborn enough, they might argue the matter, if they're dumb enough, they may choose to fight over the disagreement.
When man makes interpretations of ancient texts, he views them through the prism of his own life and experiences.
Osama bin Laden is not the first charismatic leader to convince followers to commit suicide.
13 posted on 09/16/2001 9:02:14 AM PDT by orlop9
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To: orlop9
"...if they're dumb enough, they may choose to fight over the disagreement."

I agree 100%.
From what I have read, I do not believe that anyone,
of any major religion, will stand before G*d, say
"Arn't you glad I killed those dirty unbelievers?"
and find any approval forthcoming.
14 posted on 09/16/2001 9:54:47 AM PDT by freefly
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To: freefly
Like I say, what Islam says and what is being done in it's name do not seem to match up...

If there were someone out there who drove a plane into a building in the name of Christ, every true Christian in the World would condemn it and seek to have that person killed and every one of his followers eliminated from the face of the Earth.

To murder in the name of Christ is blasphemy of the worst sort. Apparently, however, to murder in the name of Mohammed or in the name of Islam is not. Where are the thousands and millions of Islamic people who are willing to call this act blasphemy of the worst sort? Perhaps they don't call it that because they don't think it is.

15 posted on 09/16/2001 10:18:54 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
NO other religion advocates suicide like the Shiite Islam religion, and even they don't. The Talaban leaders are flat out lying to their nit wit devotees. Any comments??
16 posted on 09/16/2001 10:24:45 AM PDT by timestax
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To: Leisler
Here is my opinion. I think that America was founded by Christians on Christian principles. I think that America was the most thoroughly Christian nation yet seen in History. I think America failed in some respects where she departed from Biblical principles, but overall I explain the source of America's prosperity and America's individual liberties as coming from Christianity. I explain the slavery & poverty & suffering in India & Pakistan & Afghanistan & Africa & Asia by the fact that they follow false religions that produce ugly societies. Jesus Christ and Christianity are the hope of the world IMHO. Bob.
17 posted on 09/16/2001 10:27:51 AM PDT by BobfromMichigan2001 (Anti_immigration_man@yahoo.com)
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To: timestax
Any comments??

Name a few Islamic clerics or leaders who have condemned terrorism in the name of Isalm as blasphemy. There is a professor in Pakistan who may go to his death for blasphemy for saying the Muhammed had underarm hair. But will they condemn bin Laden or Hamas as blasphemers? I haven't heard it yet.

18 posted on 09/16/2001 10:31:54 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
"If there were someone out there who drove a plane into a building in the name of Christ, every true Christian in the World would condemn it and seek to have that person killed and every one of his followers eliminated from the face of the Earth. "

Would they?
Sure, if it was a Christian splinter group that did it.
But, if someone out there nukes the men, women, and children of Afganastan
in the name of "righteous revenge", how many Christians will be cheering?
Will it be that much different because it is being done by OUR government
instead of by a government made up of religious extremists?
I suspect that the terrorists looked at the many actions of the United States during the clinton years and,
after counting up the dead, felt fully justified in using their lives as weapons against the American people.
Especially with their "leaders" painting our entire society as hate-filled, complacent, hedonist religious fanatics.

I certainly don't approve of the terrorist's actions.
It doesn't matter to me what their reasons are.
Making war against civilians is WRONG...no matter who does it or why.
And I definitly believe that anyone that was part of the operation deserves to be hunted down and punished.
I could do the job personally without a qualm then go home and sleep like a baby.
But I can also put myself in their place and see that they probably looked at any number
of things that clinton (for example) did in the last 8 years and said:
"He killed those people, the people of the US let him. Now it's time for them to pay."
Since they have no long range bombers or missles, they did it the low-tech way.
Now we have a lot of Christians in this country doing pretty much the same thing.
"They killed our people and the people of that country allowed their leaders to promote this.
They deserve any misery we can dump on them."
We won't do it with terrorists flying commercial planes, we will do it with HE and (probably) nukes.
And, chances are excellent that more innocent men, women, and children will die.
Their blood will not be any less red than that of our dead.
They will be missed by friends and family just as much.
And their "leaders" and "troups" will get more justification to continue creating more misery.
(I HOPE that those truly responsible will be targeted and taken out...
unfortunatly that happens all too seldom, a terrorist "army" can hide all too easily.)

I will not blame Muslims for the actions of their government
any more than I would blame Christians for the excesses of clinton.
I will not act like or think like the Taliban does.
I don't care whether terrorism is done by a lone nutcase with a firebomb, a small group with flight tickets and a knife,
or by an airforce with the full backing of a government, I want to see terrorism come to an end.
To end terrorism we have to punish the GUILTY, not the innocent.
When you punish the innocent, you create more reason for hate and ultimatly more terrorism.
If we justify actions against civilians by demonizing an entire people because of their religion,
then there is not much difference between us and the Taliban.
The Taliban is company that I don't care to keep.
19 posted on 09/16/2001 11:26:06 AM PDT by freefly
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To: freefly
Would they?

You are about as bright as a 1 watt bulb.

20 posted on 09/16/2001 1:16:14 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
Since it appears you didn't get past that line,
you appear to be a bit dim yourself.


Never mind.
Ignore the point.
Cheer the deaths of innocents because they are Muslims.
Pat yourself on the back and call yourself a "good Christian".
And try to think of yourself as different from those that cheered the fall of the trade center.
21 posted on 09/16/2001 1:43:08 PM PDT by freefly
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To: freefly
Freefly, you are young, and what American education you have had, has indoctrinated you with the belief that both sides of the question are equally important, and that one man's religion is as good as the next. You are a fine upstanding, Rotarian sort of hail-fellow-well-met, and probably believe you wouldn't intentionally harm a flea. We should all be calm and discuss this in good fellowship, as we decide how to invite the members of the Elks to the Moose Lodge picnic.

When you "read", some more about Islam, here's what you are going to find out:
There is no denying several of the basic, and troublesome tenets of Islam. To do so is utter idiocy and ignores the violent history of the movement.

As to racism, Islam is not a race. Indeed, Islam has used violence to convert nations and tribes of every race, as different as the Sudanese and the Albanians. Indeed, a unifying factor amongst these disparate peoples is the violence they bring to their unconverted neighbors.

I am not speaking of some medieval episode, Freefly. It is happening now in Kosovo, in Macedonia, in the Phillipines, in East Timor in Indonesia, and most clearly of all, in The Sudan. As I type, Muslims are killing, starving, torturing and enslaving Christians in the southern regions of The Sudan. Elsewhere in the world of Islam, aid workers and missionaries are imprisoned.

Where, oh where is the voice of "moderate Islam," to condemn these unspeakable atrocities? Where is the voice that could have called the authorities about the WTC terrorists in their American Muslim midst? There is no such voice, because there is no such thing as "moderate Islam."

22 posted on 09/16/2001 2:58:32 PM PDT by Francohio
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To: freefly
I have read the Koran, but only once and a long time ago. My impression that I have held was that it was a fine book and no more hateful than the old testament. The old testament has been refered to as the Hebrew bible. It seems to me that people will do what they want and use a text as justification. Books are just dead wood.
23 posted on 09/16/2001 5:41:13 PM PDT by Leisler
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To: BobfromMichigan2001
Your argument can further be browken down to between Prostant and Catholic nations. Red off?
24 posted on 09/16/2001 5:46:07 PM PDT by Leisler
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: Francohio
First, I want to thank you for your calm and reasoned response.
Too often threads of this nature degenerate rapidly.
I'm not all that young.
I spent my time in the Army back in 82, and that not in a support role, I was in the Ranger Bn...hardcore individual combat oriented.
I understand what you refer to when you point out some of the tenates of Islam that can be used to justify violence, oppression, etc. My point being that a person can do the same thing using the Christian Bible (Old Testament in particular).
In fact, step back just a short time and you can see Christians (rather: Christian "leaders" and politicians) doing just that.
It doesn't happen here and now (at least not very often, and then it is usually rightly condemned), but it HAS happened and occasionally still does.
Are there Muslims engaging in terrible acts?
Certainly! In a LOT of different places.
Do we see oppression on a lot of other levels using Islam to justify it?
Certainly!
But what I see as the cause is NOT the religion itself, but rather the people in charge,
the "leaders", using the religion as a tool of propaganda and control.
It is very similar to the way Christianity has been used in the past.
Christians rose above it. A lot of Muslims have too.
And I HAVE seen Muslim leaders condemning the actions of the terrorists.
Unfortunatly it doesn't make as good a shot on tv as extremists talking hate.
I see a focus on "it's the Muslims doing this" that takes people's eyes away from the policies and political decisions that led up to it.
The terrorist's leaders are all in power as the result of the help of too many of our politicians.
26 posted on 09/17/2001 10:57:13 AM PDT by freefly
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To: Leisler
"It seems to me that people will do what they want and use a text as justification."

That is what I see happening with Islam.
The "leaders" of that country use it to manipulate their people.
They can avoid responsibility by using G*d or Allah as the "heavy".
It's been done before.
It's ugly whenever you see it.
27 posted on 09/17/2001 10:58:05 AM PDT by freefly
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To: crystal55t
"The truth is that Christianity promotes freedom and prosperity;"

True. Now. But NOT so very long ago Christian leaders did a lot of very ugly things and used religion as their excuse.
Torture, keeping people under control for the powers that were, keeping people in poverty, etc.
We like to try to forget about that, but it IS true...
Dirty hands should not be pointing fingers.

Islamic doctrine promotes oppression and poverty.

No. Not true. Some very ugly people ARE currently using Islamic doctrine to do just exactly that...
religion IS a VERY effective way to oppress people.
But saying that the religion is to blame is avoiding the real source of the problem.

"There are fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Moslems-- which advocate terrorism?"

Some fundamental Moslems DO advocate terrorism.
Some Catholics are engaging in terrorism as we speak.
Some Protestants are too.
Technically, so are some Jews.
If you take a look at the religious writings, and look at the actions of some of the practitioners,
you can come to the SAME conclusions about Christianity or Judism as you can about Islam.

That, combined with truth, half-truth, and generalization is EXACTLY how the Taliban
is able to convince people that Christians are evil and need to be taught a lesson.
It's very similar to what I read in this article and those like it.
28 posted on 09/17/2001 11:03:55 AM PDT by freefly
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bttt
29 posted on 11/07/2002 3:20:33 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
BTTT
30 posted on 02/02/2003 11:12:00 AM PST by My Favorite Headache (Scott Ritter: Sex, Fries, and Videotape)
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To: My Favorite Headache
bttt
31 posted on 02/02/2003 12:14:01 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe (God Armeth The Patriot)
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To: freefly

I HAVE SEEN THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN. WHERE PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET MAKE UP LIES. ALL HE HAS SAID IS UTTER RUBBISH.
I ASK EVERYBODY TO GO AND FIND THE BOOKS THEMSELVES AND SEE IF THE ABOVE MENTIONED STUFF IS IN THEM. YOU WILL FIND IT IS UTTER RUBBISH. EVEN THOUGH ALL THIS RUBBISH IS OUT THERE IT IS STILL THE FASTEST GOING RELIGION IN THE WORLD. THAT IN IT SELF SAYS SOMETHING. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

READ THE TRUTH FOR YOUR SELVES ...

NEVER PLEAD IGNORANCE


32 posted on 11/01/2004 1:47:52 PM PST by Listen121 (STOP THESE LIES FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Listen121

Is this your only post, Osama?


33 posted on 11/05/2005 8:20:03 PM PST by Whitewasher (Would u like America to be a goat nation in the millennium to come? Keep pushing the "Roadmap" bull!)
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