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Here may be our problem with Islam
The Koran #47 - Muhammad ^ | 600+ AD | Muhammad

Posted on 09/19/2001 10:47:16 AM PDT by XBob

The Koran


Muhammad

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.[47.1] (As for) those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way, He shall render their works ineffective.
[47.2] And (as for) those who believe and do good, and believe in what has been revealed to Muhammad, and it is the very truth from their Lord, He will remove their evil from them and improve their condition.
[47.3] That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
[47.5] He will guide them and improve their condition.
[47.6] And cause them to enter the garden which He has made known to them.
[47.7] O you who believe ! if you help (the cause of) Allah, He will help you and make firm your feet.
[47.8] And (as for) those who disbelieve, for them is destruction and He has made their deeds ineffective.
[47.9] That is because they hated what Allah revealed, so He rendered their deeds null.
[47.10] Have they not then journeyed in the land and seen how was the end of those before them: Allah brought down destruction upon them, and the unbelievers shall have the like of it.
[47.11] That is because Allah is the Protector of those who believe, and because the unbelievers shall have no protector for them.
[47.12] Surely Allah will make those who believe and do good enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; and those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat as the beasts eat, and the fire is their abode.
[47.13] And how many a town which was far more powerful than the town of yours which has driven you out: We destroyed them so there was no helper for them.
[47.14] What! is he who has a clear argument from his Lord like him to whom the evil of his work is made fairseeming: and they follow their low desires.
[47.15] A parable of the garden which those guarding (against evil) are promised: Therein are rivers of water that does not alter, and rivers of milk the taste whereof does not change, and rivers of drink delicious to those who drink, and rivers of honey clarified and for them therein are all fruits and protection from their Lord. (Are these) like those who abide in the fire and who are made to drink boiling water so it rends their bowels asunder.
[47.16] And there are those of them who seek to listen to you, until when they go forth from you, they say to those who have been given the knowledge: What was it that he said just now? These are they upon whose hearts Allah has set a seal and they follow their low desires.
[47.17] And (as for) those who follow the right direction, He increases them in guidance and gives them their guarding (against evil).
[47.18] Do they then wait for aught but the hour that it should come to them all of a sudden? Now indeed the tokens of it have (already) come, but how shall they have their reminder when it comes on them?
[47.19] So know that there is no god but Allah, and, ask protection for your fault and for the believing men and the believing women; and Allah knows the place of your returning and the place of your abiding.
[47.20] And those who believe say: Why has not a chapter been revealed? But when a decisive chapter is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein you see those in whose hearts is a disease look to you with the look of one fainting because of death. Woe to them then!
[47.21] Obedience and a gentle word (was proper); but when the affair becomes settled, then if they remain true to Allah it would certainly be better for them.
[47.22] But if you held command, you were sure to make mischief in the land and cut off the ties of kinship!
[47.23] Those it is whom Allah has cursed so He has made them deaf and blinded their eyes.
[47.24] Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Nay, on the hearts there are locks.
[47.25] Surely (as for) those who return on their backs after that guidance has become manifest to them, the Shaitan has made it a light matter to them; and He gives them respite.
[47.26] That is because they say to those who hate what Allah has revealed: We will obey you in some of the affairs; and Allah knows their secrets.
[47.27] But how will it be when the angels cause them to die smiting their backs.
[47.28] That is because they follow what is displeasing to Allah and are averse to His pleasure, therefore He has made null their deeds.
[47.29] Or do those in whose hearts is a disease think that Allah will not bring forth their spite?
[47.30] And if We please We would have made you know them so that you would certainly have recognized them by their marks and most certainly you can recognize them by the intent of (their) speech; and Allah knows your deeds.
[47.31] And most certainly We will try you until We have known those among you who exert themselves hard, and the patient, and made your case manifest.
[47.32] Surely those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way and oppose the Apostle after that guidance has become clear to them cannot harm Allah in any way, and He will make null their deeds.
[47.33] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle, and do not make your deeds of no effect.
[47.34] Surely those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way, then they die while they are unbelievers, Allah will by no means forgive them.
[47.35] And be not slack so as to cry for peace and you have the upper hand, and Allah is with you, and He will not bring your deeds to naught.
[47.36] The life of this world is only idle sport and play, and if you believe and guard (against evil) He will give you your rewards, and will not ask of you your possessions.
[47.37] If He should ask you for it and urge you, you will be niggardly, and He will bring forth your malice.
[47.38] Behold! you are those who are called upon to spend in Allah's way, but among you are those who are niggardly, and whoever is niggardly is niggardly against his own soul; and Allah is Self-sufficient and you have need (of Him), and if you turn back He will bring in your place another people, then they will not be like you.




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To: Manny Festo
17 - I concur
21 posted on 09/19/2001 12:16:41 PM PDT by XBob
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Helms
Gen 16:10-12 And the angel of the LORD said unto her [Hagar], I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. {Ishmael: that is, God shall hear} And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. {that is, he will be against his half-brother, Isaac}

Gen 17:19-22 And God said [to Abraham], Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

It's in writing from God.

23 posted on 09/19/2001 12:30:25 PM PDT by kinsman redeemer
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: syriacus
Mohammed was educated by private Jewish and Christian turors when he was a boy. His desire was to unite the Arab world in religious unity, as he saw how that unity benefited the Jews and Christians. His original intent was to create a sect of Jewdiasm, but the Jews flatly rejected his views as heresy.

He decided that the Arabs needed one god to worship, because they were worshipping about 100,00 different gods at the time. From the plethora of idols worshipped, he chose Allah, the moon-god.

The koran was not compiled by him, but by his followers. Whenever he would speak, a stenographer would record his speaches and the transcripts would be saved in a basket...the older speaches on the bottom. Later, it was decided to complie all of the transcripts into one text. Since the most recent writings were on top, they were recorded first, all the way to the oldest. Today, when reading the koran, the oldest of his sayings are at the back and the newest, at the front. You'll notice that the newest are the most vicious and restrictive, because as his following grew, so did his rejection and hence, we see his anger against those that don't hold his views.

He is as he was. A heretic.

oops...how insensitive of me.

baa

25 posted on 09/19/2001 12:57:19 PM PDT by woollyone
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To: woollyone
oops.
"Jewdiasm" s/b "Judiasm". Sorry.
26 posted on 09/19/2001 1:00:22 PM PDT by woollyone
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To: woollyone
Where do ya'll get this "moon god" garbage? Allah is the God of the Jews and Christians. The Koran attributes Allah as the God Of Abraham.

Moon-god. Sheesh. And I thought the Mormans had it rough.

27 posted on 09/19/2001 1:07:24 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: AppyPappy
Pappy,
Respectfully, Allah is the moon-god & according to the founding of Mohammed, he declared allah to be the god of Abraham...which doesn't necessarily make it truth, rather just the man's declaration. Of course he twisted much of the Biblical record. For instance, he declared that it was Ishmael that Abraham was told to sacrafice, not Isaac. Just like much of the lies of the pit, just enough truth to make the lie believable.

please, do look it up for yourself.

baa

28 posted on 09/19/2001 1:16:27 PM PDT by woollyone
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: Manny Festo donh
good points Manny - maybe you can get some sense into donh's head.
30 posted on 09/19/2001 11:43:39 PM PDT by XBob
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: donh
To: XBob So, if you wish to "eat as the beasts eat, and the fire is their abode. ", do nothing to disturb them, and take no action. These people are serious, and seriously deranged. In our bible, it says, "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"--are we therefore sufficiently deranged that LA should be occupied by Allah's forces until we come to our senses? This is holy war rhetoric, not a rational argument for adventurous foreign wars against non-aggressors. This is a bad, bad idea which has been given little rational thought and with potentially devastating repercussions from any angle you look at it.

337 Posted on 09/19/2001 23:31:30 PDT by donh

=======

Christianity has it's share of nuts too, and in western society, including you -

""--are we therefore sufficiently deranged that LA should be occupied by Allah's forces until we come to our senses? "

This is exactly what you have been arguing for.

As I said before, you are nuts.

32 posted on 09/19/2001 11:50:38 PM PDT by XBob
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To: XBob
My problem is with being told not to consider religion as an operative factor in all of this, while at the same time being told Moslems should be allowed special dispensation because of their faith and regarded on behalf of it. Those who expect this are hypocritical and misguided. It can't be both ways and be credible. Since Islamic militant extremists are calling this a "holy" war, it is reasonable to presume THEY consider religion an operative, if not primary factor, and thus they have necessitated a discussion of their beliefs and its relevance. Finally, when one identifies and refers to himself by his religion, operating on that basis is unavoidable.
33 posted on 09/19/2001 11:55:45 PM PDT by rebelsoldier
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To: syriacus
Don't they believe he went to heaven on his horse??? That says it all.
34 posted on 09/19/2001 11:57:51 PM PDT by Ann Archy
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: woollyone
I know I'll get flamed for this but he kind of sounds like the joe smith of the camel jockey world.
36 posted on 09/20/2001 12:04:56 AM PDT by alaskanfan
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To: rebelsoldier
33 - I agree: "My problem is with being told not to consider religion as an operative factor in all of this, while at the same time being told Moslems should be allowed special dispensation because of their faith and regarded on behalf of it. Those who expect this are hypocritical and misguided. "

Very few of those who cite the Koran as being peacful, know nothing about it's origin, or have ever read it. I started reading it years ago, to give me an idea of the culture of where I was living (Egypt at the time). It has a lot of good stuff in it. But it also has a lot of bad and intolerant stuff in it, a small bit of which I quoted above.

37 posted on 09/20/2001 12:14:14 AM PDT by XBob
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To: XBob

This is exactly what you have been arguing for.

Oh? How so?

As I said before, you are nuts.

Yes, you say it frequently, often after issuing a bon mot like this one, or your previous prizewinner: "there were more German spies in Switzerland, than there were Swiss", which I also can't figure out, either on it's own, or what its point is in the discussion.

38 posted on 09/20/2001 12:22:28 AM PDT by donh
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To: donh
Who says we are going to Afghanistan?

Give me a break. The government has been pumping Ben Laden into the ears of our whorish newspeople from day one of the attack. Do you seriously think any significant news arises from reporters doing investigative work? It's not a deep, dark secret that we have been preping for Afganistan for about 6 months now. Foreign diplomats have been briefed on this subject, and reported so to the news media.

340 Posted on 09/20/2001 00:01:48 PDT by donh

====

interesting, you admit you aren't any smarter than those in our dumbest profession, the major media.

39 posted on 09/20/2001 12:26:03 AM PDT by XBob
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To: donh
you can't figure it out? " This is exactly what you have been arguing for. Oh? How so? "

dumber than our dumbest profession, read your own posts.

40 posted on 09/20/2001 12:29:17 AM PDT by XBob
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