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Civilization Envy
National Review Online ^

Posted on 09/28/2001 2:01:52 PM PDT by VinnyTex

Civilization Envy
On Muslims, Israel, and McDonald’s.

September 28, 2001 4:15 p.m.

 

Someone once noted that a "gaffe" in Washington is when a politician accidentally tells the truth. Thanks to globalization, this is a worldwide phenomenon.

A Reuters story this morning begins, "Muslims around the world today demanded an apology from Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and the European Union recoiled with horror after the Italian asserted that Western Civilization was superior to Islam."

The Arab League demanded an apology or an explicit denial that the Italian could have even said such a thing. The European Union, led by Belgium (stop laughing), acted as if someone had used his fingers to eat caviar. "I can hardly believe Mr. Berlusconi made such remarks," gasped Guy Verhofstadt, the Belgian prime minister.

Mr. Berlusconi told reporters in Berlin, "We should be conscious of the superiority of our civilization, which consists of a value system that has given people widespread prosperity in those countries that embrace it, and guarantees respect for human rights and religion."

"This respect certainly does not exist in Islamic countries," he asserted.

While critics have called his remarks "unacceptable," "barbaric," "silly," and — of course — "racist," I am at a loss to find a single untrue word in his remarks (meanwhile, how his comments can be "racist" is beyond me, since all "races" can be found within the Islamic world).

Now of course, this hasn't always been so. There was a time when the Muslim world was out in front in the race for human advancement, and there was an even longer period when the leader in that race was too close to call between the Islamic, European, and Chinese civilizations. But for right now, and for the foreseeable future, members and fans of Western Civilization have every right to wave the big foam "We're Number 1" finger as high as we want.

There's not a single category of enlightened governance in which the West broadly speaking isn't superior to the Islamic world — again, broadly speaking. Religious freedom, social mobility, and tolerance, the guarantee of rights and liberties in law, prosperity — you name it, and we beat the robes off them (though in family cohesion, they probably have the edge on us).

To disagree with this assessment would require us to throw out the very standards by which we judge our own society's shortcomings. For example, you can't say (as Jesse Jackson does all of the time) that the United States is racist or authoritarian or a police-state, and hold that Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, et al., aren't far worse, without being intellectually dishonest. You can't say that it's a crime that America "lets" so many of its people live in poverty, and then think that Saddam Hussein, with his dozens of palaces, is in some way a more enlightened leader. The same holds even for our "allies" Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

Even in the historical arena, the argument is not so cut-and-dried as the anti-Westerners would have us believe. After all, the Arabs are just as culpable for their participation in the slave trade as the West. What makes the West unique was not our involvement in slavery, but our insistence upon ending the institution, both at home and abroad.

Envious Islam

No, I'm beginning to believe that the central source of animus from the Arab world is, quite simply, envy.

Indeed, I've been reading a lot of books and articles about the Middle East lately (what? I do research sometimes), and I'm coming to the conclusion that this really doesn't have much to do with Israel after all. At first, like everybody else, I could hardly avoid the conclusion that the World Trade Center was related in some significant way to Israel. I never agreed with the folks who are always looking to peg any of these sorts of things on our support of Israel, but it seemed naïve to think that the Jewish state didn't have something to do with it (even though bin Laden's biggest gripe is the presence of our "crusader" armies on the Arabian peninsula — and they aren't there because of Israel, they're there to protect the flow of oil from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia).

Of course, even if the attack did result from our support for Israel, I wouldn't have agreed with those who say September 11th proves we should abandon Israel. After all, you can make enemies by having the right policies just as easily as you can from having the wrong ones — just ask all the cops who are hated just for being cops. We supported Afghani freedom fighters in order to defeat the Soviet Empire, and just because the Taliban is a harsh unintended consequence of that support, doesn't mean we should have held the door open for Soviet expansionism. Does it?

Bernard Lewis, perhaps the greatest living English-language historian of the Middle East, wrote a brilliant essay eleven years ago in the Atlantic entitled "The Roots of Muslim Rage." It is the best short piece I've found on this subject to date, and I think anyone interested in this topic should read it (thanks to Andrew Sullivan for calling it to my attention).

Lewis shows that while Israel is obviously unpopular in the Arab world, it may not be for the reasons so many knee-jerk Israel foes believe. Consider that when the Soviet Union was a bigger supporter of Israel than the U.S., the Arab world didn't turn their enmity upon the Russians for it. Nor did they praise America when we stood aloof from Israel's plight. The United States has no imperialist or colonial record that even compares to Britain's, France's, or Germany's, and yet we are denounced for our "imperialism" more than any other country. Indeed, the Russians ruled millions of Muslims, while the U.S. ruled virtually none. And yet the United States remains the bad guy above all others. Lewis suggests, with professional restraint, that this is because the Muslim world is jealous and resentful. Pure and simple.

Islamic culture, politics, and religion — which are far more conjoined than they are in the West — cannot reconcile with the fact that the West, led by America, is the lead dog on the sled of humanity. Israel may serve as a painful reminder of this superiority, but they will find something else to gripe about no matter what you do.

The Islamic world has a self-esteem problem.

Lewis gives a wonderful example. In 1979, a group of Muslim dissidents seized the Great Mosque in Mecca — "an event in which there was no American involvement whatsoever," Lewis writes — and an angry crowd in Islamabad, Pakistan, attacked and burned the American embassy in response.

This is the sort of thing individuals and even whole societies do when they feel they aren't getting the respect they deserve. Personally, it reminds me of our domestic race-mongers who are convinced that every American action or event has to do with race. It's an attempt to elevate your own status by picking an "opponent" of greater stature — even if that "opponent" doesn't spend a minute out of his year thinking about you. The deeper your sense of victimhood, and the more unfair the world is to you, the greater your claim to moral superiority.

Indeed, after September 11, claims to social martyrdom were invoked by Arab-American activists far more quickly than any denunciations of the assault. In that corner of the national conversation, the shrieks of outrage about discrimination against Muslims came fast and furious, while the fatwas against mass murder remained in their holsters.

But this attitude also reminds me, oddly enough, of the global assault on McDonald's, about which I've written a bunch. Around the world, McDonald's is attacked for all sorts of bizarre reasons, including ones that don't technically qualify as "anti-American." Depending where you go, Mickey D's haters may invoke the environment or animal rights, economics or religion. Indeed, protestors often prefer attacking McDonald's to attacking the local American Embassy.

While ideologues of all kinds see McDonald's as an enemy, McDonald's sees them only as potential customers. This conflict of visions alone may explain a lot of the problem. But from a broader perspective, the anger may be explained by the fact that McDonald's is a tangible signal that the world is going in a direction these people don't like. McDonald's is carried on the same wind as consumer culture generally, women's rights, economic freedom, and all sorts of other stuff, good and bad.

But one thing is certain: That wind blows from America. This arouses jealousies, inflates grievances, and fans resentments not based in fact. The problem is that even if you get rid of McDonald's, you do nothing to stop the wind. In this sense, Israel may just be like a giant McDonald's franchise in the Middle East — an infuriating reminder of the fact the Islamic world won't be calling the shots for a long time to come.

In fact, as Lewis argues better than I, this poses a real problem for both sides in the conflict of civilizations. If America is going to be resented for its success no matter what, there isn't much we can or should do to make them like us. All we can do is protect our own interests as best we can. And then wait for them to grow up.

Minor Memos
The decker (as we call the teasers for upcoming material) for this column said I would deal with Bill Maher as well as with the new Star Trek series, Enterprise. Well, like a Castro speech, I went too long again. So, I've posted my syndicated column on Bill Maher here on the site, in part because both www.townhall.com and the print edition of the Washington Times curiously chose not to run it. As for Enterprise, I've decided to write a full review for next week's National Review Weekend.



TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: clashofcivilizatio
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first 1-5051-88 next last

1 posted on 09/28/2001 2:01:52 PM PDT by VinnyTex
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To: VinnyTex
Bump
2 posted on 09/28/2001 2:12:33 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: VinnyTex
Bump!
3 posted on 09/28/2001 2:12:57 PM PDT by SarahW
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To: VinnyTex
BUMP!!! Great truth in this article!!!
4 posted on 09/28/2001 2:16:38 PM PDT by AgThorn
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To: VinnyTex
Thanks, this is a really good piece.
5 posted on 09/28/2001 2:31:06 PM PDT by TheFilter
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To: VinnyTex
Another bump.
6 posted on 09/28/2001 2:41:03 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: VinnyTex
Islamic culture, politics, and religion — which are far more conjoined than they are in the West — cannot reconcile with the fact that the West, led by America, is the lead dog on the sled of humanity.

The demons claim that they are fighting "Western decadence".

Perhaps we should oblige them after the bombs fall, and not infect their sacred culture with such decadent, materialist items like bandages and antibiotics, created in the Sewer of Capitalism.

7 posted on 09/28/2001 2:47:54 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: sinkspur
.
8 posted on 09/28/2001 2:48:33 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: VinnyTex
Excellent. Another bump
9 posted on 09/28/2001 3:22:18 PM PDT by Bob Burnett
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To: VinnyTex
....the central source of animus from the Arab world is, quite simply, envy.

Yup. I've believed this for a long time. As one of the mechanics at the local Harley shop said, they hate us because "We're big, we're powerful, we're rich, we're good looking and we get all the girls"

It's the equivalent of the highschool freshman mascot slashing the tires of the varsity quarterback's car. That is, same motivation, just as childish but of course deadly.

10 posted on 09/28/2001 3:48:47 PM PDT by Chuckster
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To: Senator Pardek Askel5
Yea.

I see where Bush just released aid money for Afghan refugees.

We're a decadent bunch, we are.

11 posted on 09/28/2001 3:59:02 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
I'd be interested to know how our aid money for refugees stacks up against the monies we invested in Osama during the Soviet invasion.
12 posted on 09/28/2001 4:07:05 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Askel5
I'd be interested to know how our aid money for refugees stacks up against the monies we invested in Osama during the Soviet invasion.

Who cares?

Osama's going to be just as dead as the Soviet Union, in very short order.

13 posted on 09/28/2001 4:11:56 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
Yeah right.

We'll see about that.

14 posted on 09/28/2001 4:16:23 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: sinkspur
as dead as the Soviet Union

That dead, eh?

God help us.

15 posted on 09/28/2001 4:16:56 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: VinnyTex
The Islamic world has a self-esteem problem... This is the sort of thing individuals and even whole societies do when they feel they aren't getting the respect they deserve.

What is this? Oprah does foreign affairs analysis?

Depicting the terrorist supporters in the Islamic world as children in need of self-esteem classes may make for good war propaganda in this therapeutic age, but we'd be fools to believe it.

16 posted on 09/28/2001 4:20:35 PM PDT by Dumb_Ox
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To: Askel5
Not nearly as much as we "invested" in the Soviets in the early '40s, and look what we got from that.

Oh yeah, don't tell me - WWII was an "Unjust War".

My favorite mixed metaphor is as follows: "Monday morning quaterbacks always have 20/20 vision".

17 posted on 09/28/2001 4:27:35 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: VinnyTex
We also get to enjoy all those delicious pork products.

A decadent woof.

18 posted on 09/28/2001 4:41:06 PM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (L.D.M.I.W.S. cavaliers@dare_to_speak.com)
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To: Senator Pardek
Not nearly as much as we "invested" in the Soviets in the early '40s, and look what we got from that

What did we get from that? I'm curious.

19 posted on 09/28/2001 5:21:07 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Askel5
Well, we teamed up with those who we knew were bad guys (USSR/Bin Laden) to fight a more immediate threat (Nazis/USSR).

No serious person claims that we should not have fought with the Soviets against Germany because it made the Soviets, in the long run, stronger.

20 posted on 09/28/2001 5:29:37 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: VinnyTex
Supposedly the diners at a McDonald's in Lebanon cheered on the terrorists. I don't know if it's true, or just another wild rumor of war, but it should give Jonah something to think about.

We are a great country. Just between you and me, the Western Culture of today is better than the current Near Eastern culture and Christianity is better than Islam. But keep that under your hat for now. There's no point in needlessly antagonizing or embarassing people.

What troubles me about Jonah is the desire to reduce everything to sameness. Maybe it's not so evident in this particular piece, but it seems to be an undercurrent in his work and in the new National Review. Everything is to be levelled down and forced into the form of McDonald's, Star Trek and the Goldberg File. I find things to like about all three, but I certainly wouldn't like it if everyone had the same tastes, desires, or beliefs.

Just between you and me again: that world of mass consumption, mass culture and global corporations has as little use for Christian Middle America has it does for any minority that wants to preserve its own culture. That brave new world has already detached itself from roots in America or loyalty to it. The global market has become too big and too autonomous.

When people go to war to remake or reform or save the world, often it's not their own values that triumph, but rather those of the managerial apparatus or the elites that call the shots. Get the terrorists and make them pay. Make them suffer. But be wary of trying to remake the world. You may be surprised at what that will mean.

21 posted on 09/28/2001 6:04:19 PM PDT by x
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To: x
Just between you and me again: that world of mass consumption, mass culture and global corporations has as little use for Christian Middle America has it does for any minority that wants to preserve its own culture. That brave new world has already detached itself from roots in America or loyalty to it. The global market has become too big and too autonomous.

I hope every Christian realizes this.

22 posted on 09/28/2001 6:08:04 PM PDT by independentmind
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To: x
I don't think anyone wants to remake the world. But markets are here and can't be stopped... The internet is the great satan to these people..
23 posted on 09/28/2001 6:18:55 PM PDT by VinnyTex
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To: VinnyTex
Bang on. Of course, envy makes the world go around. Envy accounts for almost everything. Any attempt to explain human relationships, society, morality and politics which fails to take that into account is doomed at the outset.
24 posted on 09/28/2001 6:20:53 PM PDT by Clinton's a rapist
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To: VinnyTex
I think the problem is that with the levelling of secular mass culture, PC ideology, liberalism, the hastening decline of Christianity, and near universal bad taste , many Americans have forgotten that there is a distinction between civilized Christians and pirates and barbarians. To get technical about it, Bill Clinton, Bill Maher, Geraldo, and the others are already in the barbaric dimension of that comparison.

All you have to do is look at the pictures of the hijackers. If you don't feel an immediate visceral aversion, well...

25 posted on 09/28/2001 6:28:00 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: VinnyTex
A great deal of the motivation of the terrorists and of the "jihad" Muslims in general is self-loathing. They know Western civilization is better, cleaner, more hygienic,more sophisticated, etc. They hate themselves and they hate us for making them see their inferiority and barbarism. It's a little in the order of a Mark David Chapman type, the John Lennon psycho-killer. He envied Lennon and hated that he could not be his pop ideal. So he lashed out at the source of his own problem - the image causing his self-loathing and discomfort. All of these guys were losers, most likely with homosexual tendencies, and deep personal anxiety.
26 posted on 09/28/2001 6:35:50 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
The Arabs remind me of a bunch of spoiled children kicking and screaming in rage at Big Daddy - US --- because we get to whip their ass when they misbehave. And our size and power infuriates them to the point of frenzy and makes them hate us even more. I don't think any one doubts religion is a factor but I think the real answer is these people have a state of arrested development and when they look at how far we have come and compare their lot with ours they can't figure out what the secret of our success is. Its obvious for every one to see but for the Arabs rather than try to work hard to get to where we are they have this attitude of entitlement like they expect everything to be handed to them on a platter with no questions asked. When they don't get what they demand they lash out in a fit of deadly rage. Simple. The people over there need to grow up and become responsible adults.
27 posted on 09/28/2001 6:46:24 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: VinnyTex ankaboot English Rose
When I was shopping in the blast furnace called the UAE, I noticed a lot of people driving white Chevy Surburbans. I asked why, and a local man told me they have 2 Air Conditioners.

He said, "America makes these things, but they did it on the sweat of our backs!"

OK.

28 posted on 09/28/2001 6:47:00 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: VinnyTex
thanks for your article i agree with the italian premier,look at any muslim country all you find is corruption poverty and poor treatment of women,mike
29 posted on 09/28/2001 6:53:41 PM PDT by mike2246
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To: Senator Pardek
They are all afraid of women, any women. Why else would they mutilate, castrate, and hid the faces of their wives, children and mothers?
30 posted on 09/28/2001 6:58:02 PM PDT by Podkayne
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To: VinnyTex
The Islamic world has a self-esteem problem.

Man, DO they EVER.

While they have had a glorious and productive past, delivering wonderful science to the west 1000 years ago, their best invention for the last 100 years is largely strapping TNT all over themselves and blowing themselves up with the nearest person they have a quarrel with. THAT'LL show them!

And the lead sled dog analogy is perfect. The game of "king of the mountain" is an institutionalized part of the religion in the ME. And I think that's what this all boils down to. They just can't stand ANYONE else leading the global pack. Otherwise, they'd use all that cultural intellegence to partner in with us and take up their share of the world, rather than kill themselves just because they cant claw themselves to the lead of a 21st century world with a fifth century culture.


31 posted on 09/28/2001 7:10:15 PM PDT by Coyote
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To: goldstategop
Yeah. There is an Oedipal aspect not just to terrorism but to other forms of political behavior and ideological radicalism, gnosticism, etc. The U.S. represents "authority." It is the "bad father" in psychological terms. Just as many criminals grew up fatherless, it should come as no surprise that the Taliban grew out of orphan refugee camps in Pakistan. Charles Manson was a similar type. I recommend the book Faith of the Fatherless. We're dealing with a psycho criminal element among low castes in Islamic countries. The absurd 7th-century theology is just a veneer for other pathologies.
32 posted on 09/28/2001 7:13:31 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: x
What troubles me about Jonah is the desire to reduce everything to sameness.

The word "decultured" comes to mind. Most disingenuous about Mr. Goldberg's article is his representation that the Atlantic article makes the case for "envy" when in fact it does not. A quote:

What is truly evil and unacceptable is the domination of infidels over true believers. For true believers to rule misbelievers is proper and natural, since this provides for the maintenance of the holy law, and gives the misbelievers both the opportunity and the incentive to embrace the true faith. But for misbelievers to rule over true believers is blasphemous and unnatural, since it leads to the corruption of religion and morality in society, and to the flouting or even the abrogation of God's law.
For certain forms of Islam, Jihad is a way to protect its culture from the seductive American Pimp, and restore true Islam to secularized or occupied areas of the Islamic world. There's no need to adduce questionable psychological motives, when one can more easily claim that these people are simply acting out of self-defense and self-conviction.
33 posted on 09/29/2001 12:05:10 AM PDT by Dumb_Ox
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: VinnyTex
A good find, and one that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for posting.
35 posted on 09/29/2001 8:26:29 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: VinnyTex
An apropos joke.

First some background. There is an old Russian saying that an unwelcome guest is worse than a Tartar. The Tartars demanded a change, so the saying now should read "An unwelcome guest is better than a Tartar".

36 posted on 09/29/2001 9:14:57 AM PDT by madrussian
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To: ankaboot
Hey ... where have you been?

Are you familiar with "Reading the Muslim Mind" by Hassan Hathout?

I'm going to make some posts from it and would love your input.

37 posted on 09/30/2001 9:35:14 PM PDT by Askel5
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: Askel5
You've found a soul-mate, at last. How charming.
39 posted on 09/30/2001 11:39:38 PM PDT by Clinton's a rapist
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To: Clinton's a rapist
Listen, more than a few are of the opinion you ought to be yanked for what you said last night. I myself hate to ruin a good thread by having Jim pull it just because a moron like yourself couldn't resist displaying for all what a hateful person you are.

However, if you're going to follow me around making stupid comments, I may have to rethink that and perhaps alert the moderators to the fact you've finally shown your true colors and really have no business posting here.

Your choice.

40 posted on 10/01/2001 6:56:05 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: ankaboot
Lol ... fair enough. I guess I've been in my own world, as usual, and just hadn't seen you show up there.

(It's a bear trying to wade through latest posts or latest articles, anymore. I'll just add you to my home page, then.)

Granted, there's plenty on which we disagree but the book is written in love and is very illuminating in many respects ... both as to Islam and as to those points at which "radical Islam" could be tapped by those with an agenda they can fulfill USING Muslims ... just as they are mighty good at USING Christians to fulfill same in places like Latin America or Catholic Universities.

I'll flag you when I post so you can weigh in. Way back in "Limbo" days, I always found you both thoughtful and thought-provoking.

Best regards.

41 posted on 10/01/2001 7:00:35 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: ankaboot
P.S. I also plan to make some pro-life posts using the Muslim arguments as set forth by Hathout in an effort to help those around here who are hopelessly confused by scientific semantics and the meaning of "IS".
42 posted on 10/01/2001 7:02:37 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: VinnyTex
I love this article!
43 posted on 10/01/2001 7:02:53 AM PDT by Howlin
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To: Dumb_Ox
Would you have even heard of the Atlantic Magazine article if it weren't for Jonah's piece in NRO? I wouldn't have.

FWIW, I printed the Atlantic piece out and have saved it as a reference work to compare against current and future events. I think one can make a case that the article posits, amongst other reasons, that "envy" is a driving factor in Muslim rage.

44 posted on 10/01/2001 7:20:38 AM PDT by borkrules
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To: VinnyTex
The author speaks like a typical Westerner. There was never at time when Islam was at the forefront of social or cultural development. The vaunted Islamic culture of the middle ages was stolen from the Roman Empire (during the Christian phase Westerners like to call the "Byzantine Empire" to deny its continuity with the Roman Empire). Until it was extinguished by Islam, the Empire and its capital Constantinople, The City, it was usually called, were the beacon of social and cultural development for the whole world.

Barbarous folk, Vikings, as-yet-unChristianized Bulgars, Avars, Crusaders and Muslims all flocked to Constantinople as moths to a candle, until weakened by the Crusaders it fell to the Ottoman Turks. The City was a haven to Saxon exiles from the Norman conquest, had tolerant policies toward religious minorities more generous than the dhimmitude offered by Islam, had hospitals, a university, homes for the aged, the poor, and for reformed prostitutes. The arts flourished, for contrary to what Western art historian taught, classical knowledge of perspective and form were preserved in the secular art of the Empire. Indeed, the stylized forms of iconography could not exist without a knowledge of perspective, and the deliberate choice to send a spiritual message by reversing perspective so that the viewer is the vanishing point, and that which is beyond the icon, visually the background, but noetically the spiritual realm to which the icon points is larger. It is from the Empire that both the Muslims and the Western rennaisance derived their knowledge of classical antiquity. The Muslims did not preserve classical antiquity, rather they destroyed its last outpost.

The only significant contributions Islamic culture gave to the world are some poetry (mostly by authors whose sect of Islam was persecuted by the main body of Islam), some non-representational art and algebra. Even the latter is simply the result of having a very smart man who saw how to put the numeration system stolen from the Hindus together with the knowledge of Diophantine equations lifted from the Christian Roman Empire.

45 posted on 10/01/2001 9:04:11 AM PDT by The_Reader_David
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: VinnyTex
While critics have called his remarks "unacceptable," "barbaric," "silly," and — of course — "racist," I am at a loss to find a single untrue word in his remarks

Yep.
We all thought that Brave New World and 1984 addressed western civilization, right?
I have never seen better examples of "doublespeak" than this...

And yes, I also am waiting for the Muslims to point out which part of those statements is not true.

47 posted on 10/01/2001 12:39:27 PM PDT by Publius6961
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To: sinkspur
We're a decadent bunch, we are.

No we are a stupid bunch.
Adding 20 million Afghanis to our welfare rolls will freeze terrorism in its tracks.

Yep, works for me.

48 posted on 10/01/2001 12:41:55 PM PDT by Publius6961
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To: VinnyTex
"[A]nd just because the Taliban is a harsh unintended consequence of that support, doesn't mean we should have held the door open for Soviet expansionism. Does it?"

Yes, it does. Russia has always been at war with Islam. Just because there happened to be Communists in the Kremlin does not alter the justice of Russia's cause. They also imprisoned murderers and rapists in the USSR. Should we have sided with common felons just because they were enemies of the Soviet government?

The West has been engaged in a life and death struggle with aggressive Islam since Mohammed's psychopathic homicidal vermin galloped out of their desert to destroy Christian civilisation in North Africa. Until now, America has been spared the tender mercies of Islam because we do not have a significant indigenous Islamic community, nor do we border any Islamic states. Now, after 9/11, we Americans have been fully initiated into The West. We have joined the same club as the Byzantine Empire, Russia, Hungary, Austria, Serbia, Greece, Spain, Italy, and France. They have all, at some time, been targeted by Jihad. Their lands were invaded, their citizens massacred, their churches desecrated, and their children sold into slavery.

Russia has know this at first hand. The U.S., blinded by ideological and geo-political categories, simply assumed that the war in Afganistan and the rebellion in Chechnya were purely political struggles. They are not; they are part of an ongoing agenda of world domination that will not end until the last Jihadist is safely planted.

49 posted on 10/01/2001 1:00:24 PM PDT by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Publius6961
Adding 20 million Afghanis to our welfare rolls will freeze terrorism in its tracks.

No doubt you'd rather nuke 'em.

I'm all for an all-out assault on bin Laden and sympathetic groups and nations.

But, preventing mass starvation is simply the right thing to do. These Afghanis won't be so amenable to helping the Taliban, either.

50 posted on 10/01/2001 1:08:42 PM PDT by sinkspur
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