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The Times in Which We Live (Mormon Leader Calls on Good People Everywhere)
Deseret News ^ | Sun Oct 07 15:46:28 2001 | Gordon B. Hinckley

Posted on 10/07/2001 7:50:13 PM PDT by Vigilanteman

'The Times In Which We Live'

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Sunday, October 07, 2001

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U.S. and Britain launch attacks on Afghanistan

'The Times In Which We Live'

President Gordon B. Hinckley
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The following is a transcript of President Gordon B. Hinckley's address during the Sunday morning session of the 171st Semi-annual General Conference on Oct. 7, 2001.

      My beloved brethren and sisters, I accept this opportunity in humility. I pray that I may be guided by the spirit of the Lord in that which I say. I have just been handed a note that says the United States missile attack is underway.
      I need not remind you that we live in perilous times. I desire to speak concerning these times and our circumstances as members of this church.

      You are already acutely aware of the events of Sept. 11, less than a month ago. Out of that vicious and ugly attack we are plunged into a state of war. It is the first war of the 21st century. The last century has been described as the most war-torn in human history. Now we are off on another dangerous undertaking, the unfolding of which and the end thereof we do not know. For the first time since we became a nation, the United States has been seriously attacked on its mainland soil. But this was not an attack on the United States alone. It was an attack on men and nations of good will everywhere. It was well-planned, boldly executed, and the results were disastrous. it is estimated that more than 5,000 innocent people died. Among these were many from other nations. It was cruel and cunning, an act of consummate evil.
      Recently, in company with a few national religious leaders, I was invited to the White House to meet with the President. In talking to us he was frank and straightforward. That same evening he spoke to the Congress and the nation in unmistakable language concerning the resolve of America and its friends to hunt down the terrorists who were responsible for the planning of this terrible thing and any who harbored such.
      Now we are at war. Great forces are being mobilized and will continue to be. Political alliances are being forged. We do not know how long this conflict will last. We do not know what it will cost in lives and treasure. We do not know the manner in which it will be carried out. It could impact the work of the church in various ways.
      Our national economy has been made to suffer. It was already in trouble, and this has compounded the problem. Many are losing their employment. Among our own people this could affect welfare needs, and also the tithing of the church. It could affect our missionary program.
      We are now a global organization. We have members in more than 150 nations. Administering this vast worldwide program could conceivably become more difficult.
      Those of us who are American citizens stand solidly with the President of our nation. The terrible forces of evil must be confronted and held accountable for their actions. This is not a matter of Christian against Muslim. I am pleased that food was dropped to the hungry people of a targeted nation. We value our Muslim neighbors across the world and hope that those who live by the tenets of their faith will not suffer. I ask particularly that our own people do not become a party in any way to the persecution of the innocent. Rather, let us be friendly and helpful, protective and supportive. It is the terrorist organizations that must be ferreted out and brought down.
      We of this church know something of such groups. The Book of Mormon speaks of the Gadianton robbers, a vicious, oath-bound and secret organization bent on evil and destruction. In their day they did all in their power, by whatever means available, to bring down the church, to woo the people with sophistry and to take control of the society. We see the same thing in the present situation.
      We are people of peace. We are followers of the Christ who was and is the Prince of Peace. But there are times when we must stand up for right and decency, for freedom and civilization, just as Moroni rallied his people in his day to the defense of their wives, their children, and the cause of liberty (see Alma 58:12).
      On the Larry King television broadcast the other night I was asked what I think of those who, in the name of their religion, carry out such infamous activities. I replied, "Religion offers no shield for wickedness, for evil, for those kinds of things. The God in whom I believe does not foster this kind of action. He is a God of mercy. He is a God of love. He is a God of peace and reassurance, and I look to him in times such as this as a comfort and a source of strength."
      Members of the church in this and other nations are now involved with many others in a great international undertaking. On television we see those of the military leaving their loved ones, knowing not whether they will return. It is affecting the homes of our people. Unitedly, as a church, we must get on our knees and invoke the power of the Almighty in behalf of those who will carry the burdens of this campaign.
      No one knows how long it will last. No one knows precisely where it will be fought. No one knows what it may entail before it is over. We have launched an undertaking the size and nature of which we cannot see at this time.
      Occasions of this kind pull us sharply up to a realization that life is fragile, peace is fragile, civilization itself is fragile. The economy is particularly vulnerable. We have been counseled again and again concerning self-reliance, concerning debt, concerning thrift. So many of our people are heavily in debt for things that are not entirely necessary. When I was a young man, my father counseled me to build a modest home, sufficient for the needs of my family, and make it beautiful and attractive and pleasant and secure. He counseled me to pay off the mortgage as quickly as I could so that come what may there would be a roof over the heads of my wife and children. I was reared on that kind of doctrine. I urge you as members of this church to get free of debt where possible and to have a little laid aside against a rainy day.
      We cannot provide against every contingency. But we can provide against many contingencies. Let the present situation remind us that this we should do.
      As we have been continuously counseled for more than 60 years, let us have some food set aside that would sustain us for a time in case of need. But let us not panic nor go to extremes. Let us be prudent in every respect. And above all, let us move forward with faith in the living God and his beloved Son.
      Great are the promises concerning this land of America. We are told unequivocally that it is a "choice land and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ" (Ether 2:12). This is the crux of the entire matter—obedience to the commandments of God.
      The Constitution under which we live and which has not only blessed us but has become a model for other constitutions, is our God-inspired national safeguard ensuring freedom and liberty, justice and equality before the law.
      I do not know what the future holds. I do not wish to sound negative, but I wish to remind you of the warnings of scripture and the teachings of the prophets which we have had constantly before us.
      I cannot forget the great lesson of Pharaoh's dream of the fat and lean kine, and of the full and withered stalks of corn.
      I cannot dismiss from my mind the grim warnings of the Lord as set forth in the 24th chapter of Matthew.
      I am familiar, as are you, with the declarations of modern revelation that the time will come when the Earth will be cleansed and there will be indescribable distress, with weeping and mourning and lamentation (see D&C 112:24).
      Now, I do not wish to be an alarmist. I do not wish to be a prophet of doom. I am optimistic. I do not believe that the time is here when an all-consuming calamity will overtake us. I earnestly pray that it may not. There is so much of the Lord's work yet to be done. We, and our children after us, must do it.
      I can assure you that we who are responsible for the management of the affairs of the church will be prudent and careful as we have tried to be in the past. The tithes of the church are sacred. They are appropriated in the manner set forth by the Lord himself.
      We have become a very large and complex organization. We carry on many extensive and costly programs. But I can assure you that we will not exceed our income. We will not place the church in debt. we will tailor what we do to the resources that are available.
      How grateful I am for the law of tithing. Is is the Lord's law of finance. It is set forth in a few words in the 119th section of the Doctrine and Covenants. It comes of his wisdom. To every man and woman, to every boy and girl, to every child in this church who pays an honest tithing, be it large or small, I express gratitude for the faith that is in your hearts. I remind you , and those who do not pay tithing but who should, that the Lord has promised marvelous blessings (see Malachi 3:10-12). He has also promised that "he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming" (D&C 64:23).
      I express appreciation to those who pay a fast offering. This costs the giver nothing other than going without two meals a month. It becomes the backbone of our Welfare program, designed to assist those in distress.
      Now, all of us know that war, contention, hatred, suffering of the worst kind are not new. The conflict we see today is but another expression of the conflict that began with the war in heaven. I quote from the book of Revelation:
      "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
      "And prevailed not; neither was their place found anymore in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the Earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
      "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ" (Rev. 12:7-10).
      That must have been a terrible conflict. The forces of evil were pitted against the forces of good. The great deceiver, the son of the morning, was defeated and banished, and took with him a third of the hosts of heaven.
      The Book of Moses and the Book of Abraham shed further light concerning this great contest. Satan would have taken from man his agency and taken unto himself all credit and honor and glory. Opposed to this was the plan of the Father which the Son said he would fulfill, under which he came to Earth and gave his life to atone for the sins of mankind.
      From the day of Cain to the present, the adversary has been the great mastermind of the terrible conflicts that have brought so much suffering.
      Treachery and terrorism began with him. And they will continue until the Son of God returns to rule and reign with peace and righteousness among the sons and daughters of God.
      Through centuries of time, men and women, so very many, have lived and died. Some may die in the conflict that lies ahead. To us, and we bear solemn testimony of this, death will not be the end. There is life beyond this as surely as there is life here. Through the great plan which became the very essence of the war in heaven, men shall go on living.
      Job asked, "If a man die, shall he live again?" (Job 14:14) He then declared: "For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the Earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God, whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another." (Job 19:25-27)
      Now, my brothers and sisters, we must do our duty whatever that duty might be. Peace may be denied for a season. Some of our liberties may be curtailed. We may be inconvenienced. We may even be called on to suffer in one way or another. But God our Eternal Father will watch over this nation and all of the civilized world who look to him. He has declared: "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord" (Psalms 33:12). Our safety lies in repentance. Our strength comes of obedience to the commandments of God.
      Let us be prayerful. Let us pray for righteousness. Let us pray for the forces of good. Let us reach out to help men and women of good will. whatever their religious persuasion and wherever they live. Let us stand firm against evil, both at home and abroad. Let us live worthy of the blessings of heaven, reforming our lives where necessary, and looking to him, the Father of us all. He has said: "Be still, and know that I am God" (Psalms 46:10)
      Are these perilous times? They are. But there is no need to fear. We can have peace in our hearts and peace in our homes. We can be an influence for good in this world, every one of us
      May the God of heaven, the Almighty, bless us and help us as we walk our various ways in the uncertain days that lie ahead. May we look to him with unfailing faith. May we worthily place our reliance on his beloved son who is our great Redeemer, whether it be in life or in death, is my prayer in his holy name, even the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

World & Nation + Utah + Sports + Business + Opinion + Olympics + Front Page

© 2001 Deseret News Publishing Company

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ldslist
If my reading of Mormon culture is correct, this is a call by their leader on the decent people of the world to join together and support the U.S. in dishing out a righteous case of whop-ass.
1 posted on 10/07/2001 7:50:13 PM PDT by Vigilanteman
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To: Vigilanteman
Man... I was really hoping to see the profit use "whop ass" in his letter. What a disapointment.
2 posted on 10/07/2001 7:55:18 PM PDT by sharktrager
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To: Vigilanteman
Funny, because in another thread he was quoted as telling his followers not to get involved on one side or the other and not to "persecute the innocent".
3 posted on 10/07/2001 7:55:41 PM PDT by goodieD
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To: Vigilanteman
That's great ... one quasi-Christian cult leader telling us he's proud of our kicking butt on some quasi-Islam cult leader ...

Life has it's funny bone, don't it?

4 posted on 10/07/2001 7:59:25 PM PDT by AgThorn
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To: Vigilanteman
As a long time member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I must compliment you on the accuracy of your understanding spades.
5 posted on 10/07/2001 8:00:29 PM PDT by Adrastus
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To: Vigilanteman
Well, thanks for posting this (I was thinking of doing so, but found via search that you had already). But I REALLY don't appreciate your addition of this subtitle. That is NOT what Pres. Hinckley said.

He said that there comes a time when good people have to employ force to combat and defeat evil, and that this is such a time. He essentially laid to waste all the ridiculous arguments of the so-called "Peace movement" (which should, if Truth In Advertisement laws applied, be called the "Anti-America-At-All-Costs" movement).

Pres. Hinckley said, in essence, "we are predominately a good and righteous people, and these whom we are fighting are evil and wicked. We are within our rights to combat evil now just as we were in 1941."

6 posted on 10/07/2001 8:02:19 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: goodieD
You're mistaken. Pres. Hinckley has said NO SUCH THING. Rather, he has reminded us that this is NOT about Islam, but about evil. He has asked that we be sure never to unrighteously persecute someone solely because of his religion.
7 posted on 10/07/2001 8:03:53 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: AgThorn
Obviously you didn't bother to read the article. Since your mind is pretty much made up anyway, why bother? Fortunately, his words have meaning for those who DO take the time to understand and appreciate truth. If that leaves you out, well, that's your choice, isn't it?
8 posted on 10/07/2001 8:05:14 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Sidebar Moderator, Illbay
Title surgery?
9 posted on 10/07/2001 8:06:36 PM PDT by HalfIrish
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To: AgThorn

Let's Roll!

10 posted on 10/07/2001 8:15:53 PM PDT by dpa5923
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To: Vigilanteman
Nice to see an American religous leader say it like it is. The Taliban and their kind are the Great Satan. Freedom is the key word here. The cause of Christ is the cause of freedom.

11 posted on 10/07/2001 8:18:20 PM PDT by mcollins
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To: HalfIrish; Sidebar Moderator
Yeah, it's just not really appropriate given the dignity of bearing and the sincerity of Pres. Hinckley.
12 posted on 10/07/2001 8:23:27 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
Dittos! Hope to see some action here..
13 posted on 10/07/2001 8:29:12 PM PDT by HalfIrish
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To: AgThorn
Thanks for reminding us all once again that no matter what kind of peril the country (and, indeed, the world) is in, there will always be those more interested in displaying their narrow-minded religious bigotry on their sleeve than welcoming another group of comrades-in-arms.
14 posted on 10/07/2001 8:30:58 PM PDT by Vigilanteman
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To: Illbay
I don't understand why you are so touchy. This guy is human, not God. Just like Bush, just like anyone...I don't support every single thing Bush does or says, obviously this man is some kind of revered leader to you which is fine, but do understand that you don't have to agree with everything he says. Think for yourself.
15 posted on 10/07/2001 8:31:38 PM PDT by goodieD
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To: Vigilanteman
Well said.
16 posted on 10/07/2001 8:32:23 PM PDT by Constitutional_Republican
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To: Illbay
Aw, c'mon Illbay. I didn't mean Pres. Hinckley no harm. Everyone who has seen him on Larry King or elsewhere knows he is too polite and dignified to actually use the phrase "Whop Ass."

But the lay Mormons aren't. I've got friends in southen Utah (best damn deer hunting country in the U.S.A.) and their use of mild profanity is both proper and imaginative. One of them even told me about a former Mormon leader named Golden Kimball whose gospel pronouncements laced with mild profanity were... absolutely Golden.

I think your guys would run the good ol' boys from the south a close contest as the most manly men in America. You're at least their equal on shootin'. They'll certainly outdrink you. But I'll bet your guys hunting deer could outcuss them.

17 posted on 10/07/2001 8:40:13 PM PDT by Vigilanteman
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To: goodieD
Well, that wasn't the tone of your post. You seem to indicate that since Pres. Hinckley leads what to you is a "false Christian" sect, his remarks are of no worth. I simply asked you to READ them.

As a "Mormon" of course I believe that Pres. Hinckley IS a prophet of God (though a man, just as you say). But beyond that I think he is one of the great spiritual leaders of the world today regardless of religious persuasion. In that he is in good company, but he shines brightly in any event.

18 posted on 10/07/2001 8:43:18 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Vigilanteman
One of them even told me about a former Mormon leader named Golden Kimball whose gospel pronouncements laced with mild profanity were... absolutely Golden.

Ah, so you've found out the secret of "J. Golden Kimball," a true "legend" among "Mormon" scatologists.

FWIW, I too have a very, very bad habit of "speaking in tongues" such that I would hope that Pres. Hinckley never gets wind of it.

But my objection is simply that the ORIGINAL subtitle (which I note has now been changed) was not really in keeping with the spirit of the message.

I wasn't offended, just kind of "uncomfortable".

19 posted on 10/07/2001 8:45:31 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: goodieD
Oops, I thought I was answering another individual. What I should have said was "read the article again. He DOES say not to 'persecute the innocent' but he is talking about those of the Islamic faith who are innocent of any wrongdoing."

He specifically states that those who planned and carried out the dastardly attacks on the United States, together with those people and governments that support them, are guilty of terrible crimes and must be dealt with accordingly.

In short, you see some sort of contradiction where there is none.

20 posted on 10/07/2001 8:51:11 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
You are stretching things a bit by assuming that Ag Thorn can even read. He clearly is too busy being a bigotted simpleton to bother to get anyone to read to him as well. At least he is consistent over time.

That's just what we need now at a time like this from the clymers who infest this site.

I wonder if Dr. Ag Thorn would be dismayed by the disproportionate numbers of us members of a "quasi-Christian cult" who serve in the FBI, the CIA, all branches of our armed forces, and other government agencies whose members protect our nation and put their (our) lives on the line every day....

21 posted on 10/07/2001 8:56:32 PM PDT by tracer
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To: All
As another member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Yep, Mormons) I was interested in this thread because I didn't hear him say anything like that "to ..." 'cause he didn't. What he said was more like "if you have to, do so, but remember not to attack those who are innocent if you can avoid it."

The only reason I didn't put up a "My President is Gordon B. Hinckley" bumper sticker on my car during Clinton's occupancy of the White House is that I knew GBH wouldn't approve. He, after all, is a decent and honest man.
22 posted on 10/07/2001 9:03:49 PM PDT by Old Student
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To: AgThorn
Interesting. I've known quite a few people who belong to this "quasi-Christian" religion. They've all been better people than the average "real Christian" I've met. They have my support, "real" or not.
23 posted on 10/07/2001 9:05:13 PM PDT by cactmh
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: cactmh
Interesting. I've known quite a few people who belong to this "quasi-Christian" religion. They've all been better people than the average "real Christian" I've met. They have my support, "real" or not.

Thanks for those kind words.

25 posted on 10/07/2001 9:12:01 PM PDT by Mahonri Moriancumer
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To: Vigilanteman
Thanks for posting the text from President Hinckley's talk. That was probably the most important talk offered at the General Conference this weekend. My wife managed to listen to some of it live on the AM radio will driving home to Pocatello (passing through SLC).

The recommendation to be prudent and prepared for hard times is good advice anytime. It is especially important now.

26 posted on 10/07/2001 9:23:07 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Illbay
The URL below has sound clips.,6025,317-1-486-2,FF.html

I must confess, I wish he had been more like J. Golden Kimball when it came to this.

My response, at least here, will be two appropriate words from a hero. Let's roll.

27 posted on 10/07/2001 9:41:38 PM PDT by hchutch
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You'll get no argument from me when you talk about the fundies, the extremists who support OBL.

But I'm willing to cut mainstream Muslims a little slack. The Arabs he preached to were practicing idol worship, human sacrafice and all other forms of ancient paganism. It would've been like sending Christ to preach to the Molech worshipers.

Mohammed esentially gave his people the law of Moses because they weren't ready to receive Christ and, 1400 years later, most of them still aren't ready. You've even got the BinLaden types who want to return to the pre-Mohammed fundamentals of human sacrafice. So getting them to follow the limited truths Mohammed taught might be the first step toward eventual conversion.

The Jews may not be ready to receive Christ, but at least they are well past the point of wanting surpress competiting religions, save for a few like Abe Foxman who claim to be Jews but are really members of the secular humanist state church, albeit somewhat less fanatical than the Taliban.

28 posted on 10/07/2001 11:38:55 PM PDT by Vigilanteman
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To: cactmh
Interesting. I've known quite a few people who belong to this "quasi-Christian" religion. They've all been better people than the average "real Christian" I've met. They have my support, "real" or not.

Can't disagree with anything you say. There certainly are a tremendous number of "Bad" so called "Christians" .. and there are a lot of "Good" Mormons, Muslims, Hindu's, etc.


29 posted on 10/08/2001 7:46:43 AM PDT by AgThorn
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To: goodieD
Well, I was there for the whole thing and I can tell you that he never told anyone to not get involved.
30 posted on 10/09/2001 1:09:42 PM PDT by Grig
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To: Vigilanteman
President's Hinckley's comments confirmed what I was thinking of the situation.

What I expect to unfold is for the USA to eventualy gain a clear victory. Perhaps this will come soon with little pain, perhaps after a long and difficult struggle, but afterwards there will be another period of great prosperity and also and even further turning away from God than what happened after the Gulf War. In short, a following of the pattern the Nephites fell into that eventually lead to their destruction.

This war might lay the foundation for the gosple to to into the Arab world and for further growth in the church as well.

We must use this time to prepare, free ourselves from debt and become as self-sufficient as we can to weather the greater storms ahead.

Of course I could be totaly wrong.

31 posted on 10/09/2001 1:25:43 PM PDT by Grig
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To: Grig
Would that you were.....
32 posted on 10/09/2001 1:30:35 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: LDS_list
Testing, testing...
33 posted on 01/11/2002 9:59:06 AM PST by hchutch
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