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So when Muslims worship the God of Abraham, they're worshipping some kind of "Moon-God"... But when western Christians worship the God of Abraham, they're worshiping the real one?
Is that it?
posted on 10/23/2001 8:49:34 AM PDT
If you read about Muhammad's life, you'd know he spent a LOT of time in what is now modern-day Syria & Israel, and a lot of time being around Christians & Jews (if you actually read the Koran, it reads a lot like someone wrote it attempting to be in the style of Jewish & Christian writings. While I have no doubt that origin of the word Allah may have come from the moon-god, I also am pretty sure that Muhammad was directing his monotheism toward the God of Abraham. By the way, what is the origin of our English word, "god"? I'm not defending Islam, but this is kind of silly.
posted on 10/23/2001 8:55:37 AM PDT
Actually, Allat (Al-Ilat) was the Moon Goddess. She is mentioned in the "Satanic Verses" of Sura 53 of the Quran. Allah was the god of heaven and earth, a linguistic transformation originally from the Sumerian god En-lil, also meaning "the god." En-lil was the most powerful of the Sumerian dieties even though he was the son of Anu, the father of the gods.
Don't be stupid.
Christians who speak Arabic pray to "Allah". "Allah" means "God" in Arabic. Muslims are monotheists who are praying to the Creator of the Universe, whom they identify with the God of Abraham.
Now, they are mistaken about many of the attributes of God, but that doesn't mean they are praying to a non-entity. Are you saying that God doesn't hear their prayers?
If this is your logic, then, since either Jews or Christians are also seriously mistaken about the attributes of God, do you believe that God doesn't hear the prayers of whichever of those two groups doesn't understand Him correctly?
Well, the Muslim story on this is that ancient Arabian paganism was a perversion of primordal religion. Allah was the one and only God (so the story goes), but men perverted perverted that, set up daughters of Allah, as well as many other deities. Then Muhammad came and "restored" the original state of religion and returned Allah back to his original place.
Technically speaking, Muslims do not worship a moon-god. Their proper name for God may have originally came from the name of their moon god, but Muslims are quite clear that God is transcendant and very far away from material existance. In fact, it could be argued that the God of Islam is TOO transendant- he has supposedly never even spoken to men directly. Men are not even created in God's image, because God is unlike anything in material existence, as well as completely different from all creation. This is the main reason that the God of Islam is not the God of Judaism and Christianity- it is a far better argument than the "Islam's God was taken from an ancient Arabic pagan moon God" argument.
Instead, I would argue that the reason why Islam's God is different is, as I mentioned above, he is too transendant. The God of Judaism interacts directly with the people- the God of Islam only sends angels. The God of Judaism created men in his image- the God of Islam only created men as servant to be his viceregents on earth (you can ask any Muslim, and they will tell you- men have nothing in common with their God). The God of Islam is different from the God of Christianity for the same reasons, and more. The God of Christianity became man, fully sharing in human nature (one man, two complete natures, two wills- the human fully in conformity to the divine). The God of Christianity is three persons who share in one essence and hence are one God, while the God of Islam, while being just one God, is also only one person. This list is by no means complete, but I just wanted to point out that the arguments that Islam's God is not the same as the Judeo-Christian God should be taken in the opposite direction from the way I see it going- they are different in their very natures.
posted on 10/23/2001 9:34:41 AM PDT
See what the reaction is if one insists to a Muslim that the God of Abraham is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as HE identifies HIMSELF.
The seed of promise and no other road.
There is much about Islam worthy of condemnation. I have observed on other threads that Mohammed consciously rejected the Gospel to which he undoubtedly had access--his Egyptian wife, Mary, was a Christian whom he abused for not accepting his false teachings. Thus Islam at its root is antichrist as the Holy Apostle and Evangelist John the Theologian used the word in his epistles. Mohammed copied what he liked about the traditional Christianity of his day--head scarves for women, prostration during prayer, some reverence for Jesus of Nazareth--to strengthen his lies.
Nonetheless, let us be honest in our critique of Islam. Allah is the Arabic word for God, used before Mohammed by Arabic speaking Christians, and still used in Arabic language Christian liturgies. There are some who argue that features of Mohammed's false teachings are drawn from an Arabian pagan moon god, but to say "Allah" is this moon god is absurd.
Incidentally tomorrow is the feast of St. Harith and the martyrs who died with him. St. Harith was the Christian leader of a city in what is now Yemen, who, with most of the citizens of his city were martyred by Arab pagans in 524. The city was retaken by the Ethiopians with assistance from the Empire, and was a pilgrimage site until its churches in honor of the martys were destroyed by the Muslims. (More proof that the attempt to credit Mohammed with giving the Arabs monotheism is a lie. He corrupted the Christian monotheism they already had.)
Thy martyrs, Harith and his companions, O Lord have received from Thee crowns of life and incorruption, for armed with Thy strength, they vanquished the tyrant and overcame the demons' strenghtless presumption. Wherefore by their intercessions grant our souls great mercy.
--the Troparion of the St. Harith and his companions
There is something about all this hate you are spreading that you should keep in mind: what goes around comes around.
According to the koran, Allah has NO gender, so he can't be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!
The Muslim notion of what God is like is false in many ways. Pre-Moslem Arab Pagans may have worshipped a moon god as "the God".
Nevertheless, "Allah" is now simply the Arabic word for God.
Arabic speaking Christian converts say "Allah"; Maronite Rite (Lebanese) Catholics say "Allah"; Maltese (a language related to Arabic) speaking Christians say "Allah"; and Moghrabi (Moroccan, though now mostly in Israel) Jews say "Allah". In ordinary speech, anyway. Some may pray in other languages.
posted on 10/23/2001 11:01:50 AM PDT
So Islam has its roots in early paganistic religions, right? Hate to burst your bubble, but so does Judaism - study up on Adam's "first wife", Lilith. And Christianity - ask yourself the origins of Christmas (not Christ's birthday) or Easter. I hate that so many people seem willing to jump on the idea that this is some kind of Christian crusade.
Pre-everybodies religion was that of superstition, big deal. The author fails to indicate that when Muhhammed defeated the Meccans (around 630), he destroyed tthat cities idols. Not unlike Moses coming down from the mountains, or Jesus at the temple.It would seem that God's prophets have some similar tactics.
posted on 10/23/2001 12:11:08 PM PDT
When pagans and unbelievers tell me what the Bible or what Christianity is - it is always amusing. I suspect that when we "infidels" tell each other what Islam is - it is similiar. My opinion is that whatever Islam is - I don't care. What I do care is that every muslim/Islam government now and through history has been an oppressive tyranny with a chief aim to kill jews and christian "infidels" the moment they have a half a chance. Tray Sudan, Saudi, Afghanistan etc etc etc. There has been no reformation in muslim theology. They are mostly insane killers. There may be 30% of pakistanis that don't want us dead, and there may be 20% of muslims world wide that don't want us dead - but the majority that do are an obvious clear and present danger. regardless of their religion - you know them by the fruits.
posted on 10/23/2001 12:11:58 PM PDT
This is good background information. The "Moon god" aspect of all this is being suppressed in the major media.
Many Islamic countries have the Crescent Moon on their national flags. Pakistan does for example. Some, don't, but those that don't tend to have pure green flags, like Libya and Saudi Arabia. The Saudi flag has some Arabic script and a sword on it. One flag, that of the Islamic Republic of Mauritania, is pure green, with a yellow Crescent Moon and five-pointed star on it. Interestingly, the official flag of Afhanistan (as of 1995) did not have a Crescent Moon on it.
In Islamic countries, their equivalent to the Red Cross is the Red Crescent.
Islam uses a lunar calendar.
Extremists like bin Laden are literally lunatics!
I haven't read down throught the thread yet, but I am sure that there will be reactions against what you posted. Many people DON'T WANT to know the truth about Islam.
One thought: I wonder if the Muslims thought that Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin somehow "defiled" the Moon by setting foot on it in 1969????
posted on 10/23/2001 1:39:15 PM PDT
by Jay W
The root of the English word "God" goes back to an Indo-European word that means someone who is possessed or insane. The word giddy comes from the same root.
There are plenty of things in Islam to be critical of, but I don't think the moon-god is one of them.
Well the Christian religion is also full of spooklies and freaky things,Hinduism,Buddhism the lot have Gods,Demigods,Demons and Titans and whatever else,personally I don't care what form of babble a person subscribes to as long as they obey the law and play with others within the set realms of acceptable human interaction. I view a Northern Ireland nutcase like Paisley on equal footing with a rabid muslim cleric because their deal is power,real estate,money and control of equally feeble minds.
Mankinds stupidity will prevail this will be a stinking mess for a long time Afghanistan is the first in a long series,the picture of the plane smashing into the tower is sufficient condemnation,as an avid studier of myth legend and religion for 20 years I can tell you a lot of it is bollocks and you'd be truly amazed at parallels between Baal and Allah,Horus and Jesus,its called SSR or same shit recycled,attacking a faith is a fruitless propaganda means because all faiths have apologists to make other faiths seem like bollocks,killing 5000 innocents and representatives of government and business from over 30 nations speaks for itself,this chap declared war on civilization,no further analysis necessary.
God:IS A MAN The Origin of Allah the Moon MAN IS NOT A God
bump for the fireworks later when I can read this thing./
I saw a similar report done on the Bible, the Flood Noah, the Virgin Birth, and the holy three, all taken from pagan religions that preceded the Bible.
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