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NTSB Chief: Crash Probably Accident
Associated Press ^ | November 12, 2001 | By RON FOURNIER, AP White House Correspondent

Posted on 11/12/2001 11:30:52 AM PST by MeekOneGOP

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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
That doesn't seem right. That would seem to be one of the most important safety functions that without, the plane would not be acceptable for flight. I highly doubt this.

Don't tell that to me...Tell that to the AA pilot..He said it..apparently it has to do with the airplane being rated to fly on one engine or something..I don't remember so don't hold me to it...but it was something like that..

101 posted on 11/12/2001 1:58:48 PM PST by ag2000jon
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
"and it dumped its fuel into Jamaica Bay.."

according to the eye witness (from my other post) the plane was over the bay when the wing came off.

102 posted on 11/12/2001 2:00:19 PM PST by Native American Female Vet
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To: ag2000jon
That definitely sounds like BS. Being able to dump fuel is critical for safety--there are non-engine-related emergencies (loss of hydraulic systems, impending airframe structural failure) that mandate an immediate landing, and not orbiting around the airport waiting for the fuel to burn off.
103 posted on 11/12/2001 2:03:31 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
To: BamaDi

I heard it too. Since Airbus 300-600 is rated to fly fully fueled on one engine there is no fuel dumping capability in the Airbus 300-600. If there is fuel in the bay, it probably came from a rupured tank.

110 posted on 11/12/01 2:00 PM Pacific by Lessismore

Here is one of the original posts on this....

104 posted on 11/12/2001 2:04:06 PM PST by ag2000jon
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To: Native American Female Vet
Bush will get this right. He isn't gonna lie about this. My own sense is that we have lazy union mechanics who start the day with nothing to do and end half-finished.
105 posted on 11/12/2001 2:04:23 PM PST by mwl1
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To: Poohbah
Shhhhh! I'm getting an education in Crowd Psychology here. By the time this is over I'll have a degree.
106 posted on 11/12/2001 2:37:20 PM PST by MARTIAL MONK
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To: Poohbah
No distress call; no fuel dump. Explosion.
107 posted on 11/12/2001 2:39:32 PM PST by Lady GOP
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To: ag2000jon
Again, one small problem: it's not just a single-engine emergency that might prompt a fuel dump. There are many "land IMMEDIATELY, do NOT orbit the field burning off fuel" emergencies.
108 posted on 11/12/2001 2:43:54 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Lady GOP
First, from the accounts of (a) aircraft model and (b) eyewitness reports I heard on the radio on my way to work, I am inclined to believe that another fine piece of Eurotrash engineering fell apart.

Second, many things besides a bomb can generate an explosion.

Third, do you have a link for the report that there was no fuel dump or Mayday?

109 posted on 11/12/2001 2:45:42 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
Pataki just spoke at a news conference and said the earlier reports of fuel dump were incorrect.
110 posted on 11/12/2001 2:45:58 PM PST by Lady GOP
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To: Poohbah
Second, many things besides a bomb can generate an explosion.

Agree with you on this and this is the only point here to be argued.

111 posted on 11/12/2001 2:47:08 PM PST by Lady GOP
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To: Lady GOP
OK, it cool on the fuel dump issue. My local radio had it wrong.

But I'm not ruling out a mechanical problem. Airbus ain't a Boeing.

112 posted on 11/12/2001 2:48:17 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
"If it aint Boeing,I aint Going!"
113 posted on 11/12/2001 2:51:34 PM PST by cardinal4
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To: Rome2000
Americans can accept another terrorist attack, after all we've been warned.

Many people seem to have convinced themselves that on Sept 11, there were 4 separate accidents involving planes, and they do not want to believe we are under attack even though there's a Jihad declared against us.

114 posted on 11/12/2001 2:52:21 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Lady GOP
No distress call; no fuel dump. Explosion.

I would wonder in how many typical mechanical failures, the guages would not react in some way or the pilots would have no clue at all something was going wrong. I don't think this is an accident anymore than the 4 crashes on Sept 11 were accidents.

115 posted on 11/12/2001 2:56:36 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Native American Female Vet
Thanks for the transcription of the boat operator report. Best report of the day.
116 posted on 11/12/2001 3:02:05 PM PST by EVO X
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To: ag2000jon
No they are not replaced...they are overhauled...that is taken apart and any problems fixed. there is a big difference between replacement and overhauling.

Why do you think they overhaul them at 10,000 hours?

117 posted on 11/12/2001 3:03:23 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
(Belated reply):

>>Why would terrorists blow up a plane full of Haitians when they had their choice of planes loaded with Americans?<<

FIRST OF ALL, Don't presume I am saying this is necessarily a terrorist action, although it is *NO* great leap of logic to say there's a good chance it is. Anyone with an IQ over 3 can concede this, and it is sheer arrogance if anyone (I'm not saying you) would deride anyone else for thinking so.

BUT, to answer your question: Americans in Queens were killed by a plane FULL of fuel, thereby making it for all practical purposes, a BOMB.

I have never said conclusively that this is a terrorist attack. That would be as foolish as someone INSISTING (out of sheer ignorance) that it IS NOT.

Fair enough?

118 posted on 11/12/2001 3:12:38 PM PST by SerpentDove
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To: SerpentDove
Fair enough?

Whats that, that I have an IQ < 3 and I'm ignorant to boot?

I'm not insisting anything amigo. I'm reporting what I heard the witnesses say. You can do with it as you please but you can color me skeptical as to this being a terrorist attack.

I asked a simple question, you got your panties in a twist and attacked. Thats life.

119 posted on 11/12/2001 3:20:06 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Native American Female Vet

Officials: Crash Likely an Accident

By TED BRIDIS
Associated Press Writer
November 12, 2001, 4:15 PM EST

WASHINGTON -- An accident rather than terrorism probably caused an American Airlines jet to plunge into a neighborhood in New York, federal officials said Monday. Investigators focused on an engine that fell away from the doomed plane.

The investigators swiftly reviewed the plane's maintenance records, but initially found "nothing indicative of a specific problem," said director Marion Blakey of the National Transportation Safety Board. Officials located the flight data recorder and rushed it to the nation's capital for analysis.

"All information we have currently is that this is an accident," said Blakey, as the Bush administration sent experts to the scene.

While the crash was horrific -- the plane carried 255 people to their deaths, and wreckage set several homes on fire in Queens _ the preliminary assessment seemed a relief of sorts for a nation struggling to recover from the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and an outbreak of mail-spread anthrax.

President Bush was handed a note informing him of the crash moments after it occurred, and Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge moved quickly to the White House Situation room to confer by telephone with FBI Director Robert S. Mueller and others. Officials gave some consideration to shutting down the nation's air travel system, as was done after the September attacks in New York and Washington, but decided against it after sifting through the available information.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said at the White House there had been no unusual communications between the cockpit and air traffic officials on the ground. He also said there had been no credible threats against airplanes in advance of the crash.

Fleischer declined to rule out terrorism but said he would not dispute the assessment of other officials who had said privately there was no preliminary evidence that terrorists had been involved.

Blakey made her comments a short while later.

The president spoke by phone with New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and Gov. George Pataki. In a remarkable sign of the times, Giuliani said he had asked the president for "air cover" to protect his wounded city.

Blakey said debris fell over a wide area of Queens, a few miles from the airport where Dominican Republic-bound American Airlines Flight 587 plane took off. She noted there were reports of some wreckage recovered in Jamaica Bay.

Witnesses said there may have been an explosion on board the plane.

"It's too early for me to advance theories on this," Blakey said. But she noted in response to a question that engine parts were scattered "some distance from the actual crash crater."

At least one of the engines, believed to be from the right side, fell intact on a gas-station parking lot. American Airlines said the left engine on Flight 587 was freshly overhauled and the right engine was about due for maintenance after nearly 10,000 hours of operation.

General Electric Aircraft Engines, the Cincinnati-based subsidiary of General Electric Co., sent two experts to the crash site to assist federal investigators. GE manufactured the CF6-80C2 jet engines -- the same model as those installed on Air Force One _ that were mounted on the underside of each wing of the doomed flight.

"There are eyewitness reports that they saw the engine on fire and it reportedly landed in a separate place from the main body of the wreckage," said Susan Coughlin, a former vice chairwoman for the NTSB and now chief operating officer of American Trucking Associations Foundation. "That would certainly prompt the investigators to figure out why."

A Chicago-based lawyer, Tom Ellis of the Nolan Law Group, said photographs of the surviving engine showed "pretty clear evidence of an uncontained engine failure." His firm sued on behalf of victims of United Airlines Flight 232, which crashed in 1989 in Sioux City, Iowa, after an earlier version of the CF6 engine came apart in flight. So-called "uncontained engine failures" can result in an explosion of metal fragments as damaging as shrapnel from a bomb.

Earlier this year, on May 18, a problem with the same type of engine forced the emergency landing of a Monarch Airlines passenger jet in Portugal. Documents from the British Air Accidents Investigation Branch said a rotor blade snapped, puncturing the engine's housing with a 3-inch hole and causing minor damage to the wing. The pilots reported dramatic vibration, and British officials reported there had been "several similar failures prior to this event."

The FAA ordered airlines in June to begin regularly inspecting these types of engines for cracks in certain rotor disks, a component within the engines, after the dramatic failure of one engine when maintenance crews set it to high power during testing on the ground.

Last year, the FAA also ordered airlines to replace a fuel tube within these engines to prevent high-pressure leaks that investigators warned could result in an engine fire and damage to the airplane. Also last year, the FAA ordered carriers to remove certain fan shafts within these engines earlier than planned to prevent possible catastrophic failure.

GE spokesman Rick Kennedy said American completed all these inspections and repairs. "Airworthiness directives" from the FAA mandating such repairs are relatively common.

GE has built 2,954 of these engines -- first introduced in 1984 _ and they are among the best-selling for wide-bodied aircraft. Kennedy called the CF6 engines "phenomenally reliable," and said they have been installed on more than 1,000 planes worldwide.

___

Associated Press writer Jonathan D. Salant contributed to this report.<

(PROFILE (CO:AMR Corporation; TS:AMR; IG:TRV;) (CO:General Electric Co; TS:GE; IG:IDD;) )

Copyright © 2001, The Associated Press




A still from Fox-5 television news shows what witnesses say is the Airbus' engine after it fell
from an American Airlines Airbus A-300 passenger jet into a service station in Queens, New
York November 12, 2001. The White House said it was too soon to say what caused the
crash in New York of the airliner with 255 people on board. (WNYW FOX-5 via Reuters)








A jet engine from American Airlines flight 587 lies amid houses that it crashed into several
blocks from site where the rest of the plane crashed November 12, 2001 in the Rockaway
section of Queens, New York. Normal flight operations at two of the three major New York-
area airports resumed several hours after an American Airlines jet crashed shortly after takeoff
Monday from John F. Kennedy International Airport. REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton








A large section of the tailpiece of American Airlines Flight 587 is lifted off a boat by a crane
after the Airbus A300 crashed in the Rockaway Beach section of the Queens borough of New
York Monday, Nov. 12, 2001. The tailpiece was recovered from Jamaica Bay and towed to shore. (AP Photo/Daniel P. Derella)

120 posted on 11/12/2001 3:30:22 PM PST by michigander
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