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Michigan - Ferndale passed gun ban, MCRGO responds, anyone up for a metting there Nov 26, 7:30pm?
Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners ^ | several

Posted on 11/21/2001 8:11:44 AM PST by Dan from Michigan

http://www.mcrgo.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5418&FORUM_ID=4&CAT_ID=2&Topic_Title=Ferndale+gun+ban&Forum_Title=General+Discussion

Jlevis (Message Boards) - The city council in Ferndale has passed a ban on possesing any weapon in a city owned building. If you live in that city you need to write the council and mayor expressing your displeasure at this.

Ross Dykman, exec director -
I have just sent them a letter advising them that their ban is most likely illegal per Michigan law and promising further action if they don't repeal it or make any effort at enforcing it.

Who's up for a trip to the next ferndale City Council meeting? I'd love an overflow crowd of law-abiding people who are upset that they can no longer use the library or access city services without surrendering their constitutional right to self-defense.

Next meeting is Monday, November 26th at 7:30 in the basement of City Hall.

Ferndale city hall is located at 300 East Nine Mile Road Ferndale, Michigan 48220.


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist
I don't know if I'll make it or not. It's a long ways away. The People's Republic of Ferndale is one of the most left wing suburbs out there. Let's get a good turnout, and please, no 'militia' stuff. We all need to look presentable.

If Ferndale gets this through, it means that OTHER CITIES will follow. That's why this is important. Politics is local.

1 posted on 11/21/2001 8:11:44 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
I wish you guys well, but isn't Ferndale where Martin Mull used to have his show? Or was it Fernwood? (I'm only 25 and vaguely remember the show).

Here in Miami-Dade County, we are already prohibited from carrying in all local government buildings (that is, unless you serve on the County Commission). Private businesses, however, don't seem to have this problem. :-)

Go Get 'em Dan!

2 posted on 11/21/2001 8:19:37 AM PST by Clemenza
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To: Clemenza
I don't know who Martin Mull was.

Ferndale however is VERY liberal and in the middle of Gilda JAcob's district I believe. Jacobs is the number one ASD'er(Anti-Self Defense) in the state legislature.
Bush 2970, 31%
Gore 6107, 64%
Nader 420, 4%

But even liberals do not like COURT CHALLENGES.

3 posted on 11/21/2001 8:25:29 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
BTW - I don't of any Fernwood, so it is probably Ferndale.
4 posted on 11/21/2001 8:25:54 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Clemenza
The setting of Mull's hilarious show was indeed Fernwood, but it sounds like this town is trying hard to emulate the crackpots on that show.
5 posted on 11/21/2001 8:33:46 AM PST by SpinyNorman
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To: Dan from Michigan
Can they legally do that? State/city laws do not supercede the US Constitution. All rights not mentioned in the US constitution are left to the States and the right to keep and bear arms certainly is mentioned in the US Constitution.

I have often wondered the legality of such things as this?

Does anyone have any incite into this?

It seems to me that a state cannot override the US Constitution and neither can a city...
6 posted on 11/21/2001 8:36:14 AM PST by RebelDawg
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To: SpinyNorman
You don't even know the half of it! My city (lived here since '77) has become a liberal paradise in the last decade or so. The best was after one of the councilman had a relative or friend killed in Detroit, so he organized a city gun "buy-back" which cost the taxpayers something like 3000 dollars, all the while the city is cutting back on services because they are $500K in the hole on the budget!

We also pay the highest property taxes in Oakland county. Oakland county is one of the richest counties in the country, and Ferndale isn't close to being the richest city in the county.

Ferndale does have one of the best police forces in the state, though.

7 posted on 11/21/2001 8:39:18 AM PST by historian1944
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To: Dan from Michigan
This is crazy. So the cities can host terrorists if they want to but not gun carrying (aka Oregon not complying with Homeland Defense). This is turning into Nazi land. What the heck is going on America?
8 posted on 11/21/2001 8:40:09 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: Dan from Michigan
Here in Texas.... City, County , State and Federal buildings have always been off limits for CHL/CCW packing folks. But they are limited to goobermint functions such as Courts , tax offices etc etc......not just "city owned" ...... Now if the city owns the gazebo in the park or the public restroom's, the convention center, or even "Bob's Hardware" is leased from the city ......a law abidding citizen in Ferndale would be walking in a legal (illegal IMHO) minefield of potential gottcha's..............

The law is mere harrasment IMHO........ Good luck in your efforts Dan.... and Stay Safe !

9 posted on 11/21/2001 8:40:14 AM PST by Squantos
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To: Dan from Michigan
This is crazy. So the cities can host terrorists if they want to but not gun carrying ( aka Oregon not complying with Homeland Defense ). This is turning into Nazi land. What the heck is going on America?
10 posted on 11/21/2001 8:40:50 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: historian1944
Ferndale has also supplanted Royal Oak as the Gay Mecca of Michigan. I avoid it like the plague.
11 posted on 11/21/2001 8:43:27 AM PST by Azzurri
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To: Squantos
Well, those bans are equivalent to dereliction of duty of the state to insure second amendment rights and the right of a free people to protect their own lives.

IN OTHER WORDS: WHO THE HECK WOULD BE WILLING TO VOLUNTEER FOR, LET ALONE ACTIVELY PROTECT, CITY AND GOVERNMENT ORGS AND BUILDINGS IF THOSE ORGS REFUSE THAT WE PROTECT OURSELVES AND VOLUNTEERED FOR OURSELVES?

WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND.

12 posted on 11/21/2001 8:43:58 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: RebelDawg
Well, so far the courts haven't been good on overriding state laws.

That said, our state has a preemption law, and that's what we'll be using if need be. Cities can't override state gun laws.(Law since 1990). We also have a friendly state Supreme Court.

13 posted on 11/21/2001 8:44:27 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Azzurri
Oh no! I forgot about that. I better have a sign on my back that says Exit Only if I go there!
14 posted on 11/21/2001 8:48:27 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
This army of one can be there. Fashionable Ferndale is a mere stone's throw from this Warren Freeper.
15 posted on 11/21/2001 8:54:50 AM PST by raygun
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To: Azzurri
Well, there is that too. There is an abudance of purple doors and rainbow flags on my street.
16 posted on 11/21/2001 8:57:39 AM PST by historian1944
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To: Dan from Michigan
Does the wording of this "law" exempt LEO's? If not, things could get interesting in Ferndale.

Regards

17 posted on 11/21/2001 8:59:05 AM PST by Tinman
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To: Dan from Michigan
"If Ferndale gets this through, it means that OTHER CITIES will follow. That's why this is important. Politics is local."

Hardly - being that you yourself say Ferndale is one of the most-liberal suburbs there!

It's like all those few "college towns" during the Reagan years that declared themselves "nuclear-free zones"; the idea never spread past the very-few leftmost places that started it.

Scandals of antigun politicians and activists

18 posted on 11/21/2001 9:11:03 AM PST by glc1173@aol.com
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To: RebelDawg
" does anyone have insight into this"

I wrote an article on free republic a while ago about this. see below
--------------

The deliberate misinterpretation of the phrase "well regulated" in the 2nd Amendment is easily exposed through a simple exercise of English.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

First who is the intended target of the 2nd Amendment that is to obey the 2nd Amendment?
- the answer is everyone and that includes the government (federal, state and local).

Second, what is the verb in the 2nd Amendment that commands the actions of the target?
-The answer: there is only one verb which is the verb phrase - "shall not be infringed".

Third, what is the subject of the sentence that receives or benefits from the action of the verb?
-There are two subjects: the clause "well regulated militia" and the noun clause "the right of the people to keep and bear arms". Those two subjects are then not to be infringed.

The obvious English interpetation of the 2nd amendment then is: the target (Government and everyone else)is commanded not to infringe on the militia and is commanded not to infringe on the people's rights to own and bear guns.

Logically then it is completely illogical and nonsensical to think that the government can regulate the Militia when the second amendment commands the government NOT to infringe on the Militia. This should always be the counter-argument for anyone that says that the government has the right to regulate the militia. I have never heard anyone - the NRA, GOA, any TV show or radio - use this argument but it is as clear as day. After all the Bill of Rights and the Constitution was primarily written for the people and only secondly for the Lawyers and judges and the Supreme Court.

Also the phrase "well-regulated" in the 2nd amendment is not a verb. So the second amendment is not saying the government or anyone has the right to regulate the militia but instead is directing, by the real VERB of the Sentence, that the Militia shall not be infringed.

This then leaves open the question - how is it that a militia cannot be infringed by anyone?
- The answer can only be because the militia is a private organization separate from any government. Or in other words the militia is the people acting outside of the government, and the government is directed by the second amendment to not infringe on these actvities of the people or militia.

Another question about the English of the second amendment can then be - then what does "well regulated" mean?
-"Well regulated" back in the times of the colonies meant to practice and or be well-practiced. Intepreting well-regulated correctly requires consistency with the context of the second amendment itself and also with the context of the Bill of Rights in its entirety. This contextual consistency leaves the correct interpretation that is - that not only shall the militia not be infringed, but also the practicing(training, exercises, firing drills, shooting practice, marching with guns, tactical drills, etc)of the militia shall not be infinged; or a well-practiced/well-regulated militia shall not be infringed!

And for anyone that does not know who still would ask - what is the context of the Bill of Rights?
- The answer is that context is a command of prohibition against the Government not to infringe on these listed rights of the people. So again in the context of the Bill of Rights it is again nonsensical to state that the Bill of Rights or the Second Amendment gives the Government the Constitutional power to restrict gun rights or the militia when the Bill of Rights is actuially the opposite of that and is a commanding list of prohibitions against the Government.

And an important side note - I believe the second amendment is the only part of the Constitution where the Constitution's authors had written into the Constitution the reason WHY the amendment is included(but I would be gladly corrected on this)
That reason they wrote
"being necessary to the security of a free state"

One should take note of this as an extra emphasized message that the Founding Father's had sent to us about the importance of being armed. A message made permament as part of the Constitution so as there to be no doubt that they intended that all future generations would understand that this right to be armed shall be defended and protected at all costs!!!!!

I dare say that this is strong evidence that they considered the second amendment then the most important of all rights of the people.

Dobbyman

19 posted on 11/21/2001 9:15:59 AM PST by dobbyman
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To: glc1173@aol.com
It's the old line in the sand. If they can't do it, no one can. That's why we are fighting them.
20 posted on 11/21/2001 9:24:41 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Azzurri
Gay Mecca of Michigan

I always thought Saugatuck had that "honor".

21 posted on 11/21/2001 10:05:45 AM PST by FourPeas
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To: Dan from Michigan
bttt
22 posted on 11/21/2001 10:16:49 AM PST by technochick99
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To: Dan from Michigan
"I don't know who Martin Mull was."

The next time you're near a Blockbuster or other large video store, go in and rent a copy of "A Short History of White People in America."

23 posted on 11/21/2001 11:05:59 AM PST by Don Joe
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To: Dan from Michigan
bump
24 posted on 11/21/2001 12:05:55 PM PST by Hot Soup
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To: Clemenza
I wish you guys well, but isn't Ferndale where Martin Mull used to have his show? Or was it Fernwood?

I thought it was Mary Hartman that lived in Fernwood.

25 posted on 11/21/2001 12:34:21 PM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Dan from Michigan

26 posted on 11/21/2001 12:40:42 PM PST by let freedom sing
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To: FourPeas
Saugatuck is where the Ferndale-ites vacation.
27 posted on 11/21/2001 12:55:52 PM PST by germanicus
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To: dobbyman
There is only ONE comma in the 2nd amendment. It occurs after the word "state". Use of additional commas just leads to more parsing and spinning.
28 posted on 11/21/2001 3:31:00 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: FourPeas
I always thought Saugatuck had that "honor".

Or as my dad likes to call it, "Sausagetuck."

:^)

29 posted on 11/21/2001 5:11:21 PM PST by thmiley
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To: Dan from Michigan
Ferndale, I'm sorry to say, is where I moved when I first graduated from college and went to work for Chrysler - back when it was an AMERICAN company!
Ferndale's a blue-collar, lower-middle-class suburb whose government is run by a bunch of elitist liberals from the suburb-within-a-suburb of Pleasant Ridge, home to such "notables" as dimocrap Governor Jim Blanchard.
He's the guy who put together the Chrysler 'bailout' - or 'handout' depending on where your sympathies lie.
Nothing those silly pansies do would surprise me.
From Texas,
Freegards, Redbob
30 posted on 11/21/2001 6:59:46 PM PST by Redbob
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To: RebelDawg
"All rights not mentioned in the US constitution are left to the States."

Actually, what that means is that 'police' issues are left to the States, and the Second Amendment, for example, means as it says that the FEDERAL government "shall not infringe" - the states should be able to do anything they wish.
But then along came ol' "Honest" Abe, and the idea that he couldn't regulate everything just offended him immensely. The rest is, as they say, history.
But it could be I'm biased; I think Abe Lincoln was the worst thing to happen to the U.S. until Slick Willie came along.

31 posted on 11/21/2001 7:09:52 PM PST by Redbob
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To: dobbyman
Read the second again. What it says is that a well regulated militia being necessary for the security of the state. That means an Army not a bunch of weekend warriors. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. This means that since the govt. has guns the people must also inorder to counter the official guns. The militia phrase has been used to confuse the issue. It doe's not mean we the people must belong to a militia. It means simply thay as long as there are govt. militias(Army etc.) we the people have the right to possess the means to resist if the official guns are turned against us.
32 posted on 11/22/2001 7:15:47 AM PST by willyone
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To: Dan from Michigan
MCRGO update--Ferndale bars CCW holders from public property!

The city council in Ferndale has passed a ban on possessing any weapon in a city owned building. If you live in that city you need to write the council and mayor expressing your displeasure at this.

MCRGO has already sent them a letter advising them that their ban is most likely illegal per Michigan law and promising further action if they don't repeal it or make any effort at enforcing it. Now we need your help.

We want that council meeting packed with an overflow crowd of law-abiding people who are upset that they can no longer use the library or access city services without surrendering their constitutional right to self-defense.

The meeting is Monday, November 26th at 7:30pm in the basement of City Hall. Ferndale city hall is located at 300 East Nine Mile Road Ferndale, Michigan 48220.

Spread the word and let's get a serious turn-out of well-dressed gun owners. If Ferndale gets away with this, many other municipalities will undoubtedly follow suit.

33 posted on 11/23/2001 8:27:17 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: *bang_list
BUMP!
34 posted on 11/25/2001 5:49:43 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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BUMP - I will be there.
35 posted on 11/26/2001 6:30:45 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
Check out senate bill 1438- Sen Levin Michigan sec 1062 recall of DCM small arms sold to competition shooters. Semper-Fi Chopper 1.
36 posted on 11/26/2001 6:39:30 AM PST by chopper 1
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To: chopper 1
I know all about it and posted a thread on it awhile back.
37 posted on 11/26/2001 6:55:09 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
BUMP!

I'll be wearing the Spartan polo shirt there.

38 posted on 11/26/2001 11:43:43 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
BUMP!
39 posted on 11/26/2001 1:25:03 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: *bang_list
Well, here;s the latest. It looks like the bill was NOT passed before. We had about 25 people there which is a fairly good turnout for a little city council meeting.

Ross told them this. It's illegal, and if you pass it, we will sue. Some of the council members did not care much for hearing that as the look on their faces showed that. We also have a few members there as well. He also said it wasn't the CCW members that they need to worry about. One of our Ferndale members there asked the members to take the training course. One of our board members is Pat Alzady from Macomb County. She is a firearms instructor as well. She offered to train the council members for free.

We'll see what happens here and will keep a close look on upcoming events.

40 posted on 11/26/2001 5:34:52 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan
From "Wakebrdr"

Just got back from the meeting. Ross laid into them pretty good, first going into why what they are doing is illegal (citing a law from 1990), then talking about how they are really only keeping law-abiding people from carrying weapons in city buildings, not criminals. They only gave him 3 minutes (and interrupted him at 2.5 to let him know time would soon be up). A few members also got up and said a few words. Pat Alzeady (sp?) offered a free CCW training course to any member of the council, which was pretty quick thinking on her part and pretty generous, but I'd be suprised if any of them take her up on it. It was my first city council meeting; next time I'll be more prepared and maybe jot down a few notes of my own to mention to the board. Lots of members there, and good to see everyone out in support of our efforts.

41 posted on 11/26/2001 5:40:37 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan; Clemenza
I don't know who Martin Mull was.

Clem, dude, we're getting old. LOL

42 posted on 06/23/2002 12:15:28 PM PDT by VA Advogado
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