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'HARRY' CATCHES HELL FROM CHRISTIANS
New York Post ^ | 11/24/01 | TODD VENEZIA

Posted on 11/24/2001 2:08:47 AM PST by kattracks

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:02:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

November 24, 2001 -- Is Harry Potter the spawn of Satan?

That's the opinion at one Christian school in southern Australia, where parents voted yesterday to forbid students from reading about the bespectacled wizard and his preteen cohorts.

The vote was just part of a widespread anti-Harry backlash by religious conservatives angered by the best-selling books' blatant celebration of witchcraft and the occult.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: christianlist; religion
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1 posted on 11/24/2001 2:08:47 AM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks; peabers; Kiwigal
Good to see the Potter loons are not just confined to the States.
2 posted on 11/24/2001 2:11:11 AM PST by jjbrouwer
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To: kattracks
My parents were deeply, genuinely religious people, but somehow they had the wisdom not to censor our book reading. I guess they trusted what we'd been taught by them. I remember being fascinated for a while by witches, goblins, etc, but it was a passing phase, and since no brouhaha was made over it, my interest waned and went on to something else.

I think those who are making a stink over Harry Potter are making a mountain out of a mole hill, and are giving witches, etc, more importance than they'd otherwise have for the kids.

But, you know, parents aren't perfect, they just do their best. And some are more susceptible to this kind of worry than others.

The point for me is that the parents on a tear about Potter have a perfect right to their beliefs and concerns. They aren't trying to impose those beliefs on anyone else. They aren't trying to pass laws against Potter. So, let them be. Who isn't at times irrational?

3 posted on 11/24/2001 2:20:46 AM PST by WaterDragon
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To: WaterDragon
I am amused at the panic "Harry Potter" seems to be causing some well professed Christians. How can this harmless be - speckled boy cause such angst?

Yes indeed, Harry Potter has many evil detractors in the stories, and yes wizardry is used. But if people's faith is threatened by a 12 year old boy with a wand, I dare say that perhaps they need a bit more examination of their own faith that they embrace.

Don't misunderstand me, I do not make light of someone's Christian beliefs. (Our family is devoutly Catholic, and we attend Mass weekly.)But you have to wonder if Harry causes this much of a stir, (no pun intended.) one must wonder what kind of panic the Wizard of Oz must have caused during its debut?

Lighten up those of you who seek to destroy Harry. Grab the Sorcerer's Stone, a good Afghan, (Whoops... did I just violate National Security?...)and read this delightful book!

Go Harry GO!

"Ans-Wingardium Leviosa!"

4 posted on 11/24/2001 2:58:25 AM PST by Northern Yankee
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To: *Christian_list; *Religion
!
5 posted on 11/24/2001 3:17:59 AM PST by Khepera
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To: Khepera
Harry Potthead thread!
6 posted on 11/24/2001 3:39:59 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: kattracks
Harry Potter, Star Wars and other recent sci-fi/fantasy epics can be seen as retellings of the Christ story. Harry, Luke and Jesus are born to a special fate, are recognized by others while young, perform miracles or magic, and overcome long odds and evil-doers while fulfilling their destiny.

So, based on the popularity of Harry and Luke, I'd say the appeal of Christianity is alive and well.

7 posted on 11/24/2001 3:45:29 AM PST by Tax Government
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To: Tax Government
So, based on the popularity of Harry and Luke, I'd say the appeal of Christianity is alive and well.

7 posted on 11/24/01 4:45 AM Pacific by Tax Government

So, based on the popularity of Harry and Darth, I'd say the appeal of satan/witchcraft is alive and well

8 posted on 11/24/2001 3:57:23 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: WaterDragon
The point for me is that the parents on a tear about Potter have a perfect right to their beliefs and concerns. They aren't trying to impose those beliefs on anyone else. They aren't trying to pass laws against Potter. So, let them be.

From the article:

The American Library Association says there have been attempts in at least 13 states to ban the book from schools and public libraries.

Yes, they can believe whatever they want, but when they start trying to ban books (or burn them, as happened in Pittsburgh last year), it worries me.

9 posted on 11/24/2001 3:59:50 AM PST by TomB
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To: kattracks
Oh, no. Not again. Some people have religious convictions and principles. Other people have lives so vacuous and devoid of meaning that they must ridicule those who have religious convictions and principles. Boring.
10 posted on 11/24/2001 4:00:50 AM PST by Skooz
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To: jjbrouwer
I prefer Fundie Potter. He's a kid who finds he is an exorcist and goes to a Pentecostal school to improve his powers.

I'm glad to see the Potter geeks have another thread to play on.

11 posted on 11/24/2001 4:11:55 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: TomB
I bet it kills you when Christian books are banned from school.
12 posted on 11/24/2001 4:13:09 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: f.Christian
I'd like to add Superman to the "Christ wannabe" list. Christopher Reeve is alive, but not well. George Reeves is still dead. Are there any actors who want to play the big guy in another sequel?
13 posted on 11/24/2001 4:19:03 AM PST by longleaf
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To: jjbrouwer
I would not let my kids see that movie. The school they went to was reading my youngest son harry potter without parents promision or knowage. So we home school are kids now. My son want to burn the Harry Potter book the public school gave him.

Parents have the right to let there kids see that movie or read the book. But the public schools should not have the right to choise. In Denver they took a whole elementry school there. The teachers took it apon then selfs to take the kids. The didn't even have to ask parents. Thet is sick.

14 posted on 11/24/2001 4:27:19 AM PST by RMrattlesnake
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To: AppyPappy
You beat me to it. Wonder if I can find something by CS Lewis or any one of a thousand Christian authors there. Betcha' I can't.
15 posted on 11/24/2001 4:27:19 AM PST by Skooz
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To: RMrattlesnake
Man, I had to get parental permission to see "Romeo & Juliet." Times have changed, huh? I guess the public schools know what's better for our kids than the parents. The village, you know.
16 posted on 11/24/2001 4:29:35 AM PST by Skooz
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To: kattracks
"...train up a child in the way he shall go, when he is old he will not depart from it. (Proverbs 22:6)
17 posted on 11/24/2001 4:32:00 AM PST by Radioheart
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To: Skooz
A parent came to school and read it to my daughter's 2nd grade class. My daughter insisted she didn't want to hear it so they gave her something else to do.
18 posted on 11/24/2001 4:35:31 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: All
Hey Freepers, quit ridiculing us Christians just because we don't like a commercial for witchcraft flasly presented to us as entertainment. After all, each and every one of YOU objects when Hollyweird packages its left wing politics as entertainment in the movies. You also don't like it when Peter Jennings falsely presents his propaganda as objective news.

I used to work in a center for severly disturbed children (a public school- just kidding). Anyway, it was run by non-christian psychologists, but even they knew not to let the inmates practice witchcraft. See they noticed that in real life, unlike Harry Potter movies, a huge correspondence between participation in witchcraft and a whole list of social pathologies.

In conclusion, give us a break, we are only doing what you do yourselves, and we have good reason to do it.

Ahban

19 posted on 11/24/2001 4:45:46 AM PST by Ahban
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To: RMrattlesnake
I would not let my kids see that movie. The school they went to was reading my youngest son harry (sic) potter (sic) without parents (sic) promision (sic) or knowage(sic) . So we home school are (sic) kids now. My son want (sic) to burn the Harry Potter book the public school gave him.

Parents have the right to let there (sic) kids see that movie or read the book. But the public schools should not have the right to choise (sic) . In Denver they took a whole elementry (sic) school there. The teachers took it apon (sic) then (sic) selfs (sic) to take the kids. The (sic) didn't even have to ask parents. Thet (sic) is sick.

Your kids have the right to be schooled by someone who can speak and write the English language.

20 posted on 11/24/2001 5:07:55 AM PST by Bug
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To: kattracks
I saw the movie last night with the kids and boy, are these anti-Potter folks making a big fuss over nothing at all. Personally I was a bit disappointed in the movie as it left out of lot of things in the book like the "Maurader's Map" and character development. You need to read the book to really understand the characters. The beginning of the book was practicially eliminated, only a few scenes occurred with the Dursley's and if you didn't read the book, you'd be scratching your head wondering what they were all about. Still, the movie was already 2 1/2 hours long so I guess the filmmakers didn't really have much choice in the matter. It is very difficult to make a movie that matches up with the book and overall, I think they did a pretty good job. Certainly they could have done a lot worse.

You know, if I was a Bible-thumper, I'd be a lot more concerned with 90% of the other movies out there myself. There is so much garbage in the movies today. The fuss the Bible-thumpers are making about this movie is akin to complaining about the weather in the middle of an earthquake. If they are concerned about morals and role models for our children, Harry Potter is the least of their worries. Actually I think the main characters are good role models for kids (Harry, Ron, Hermione). Speaking of Hermione, the girl who played her did an excellent job.

I'm not panning the film, just saying it doesn't quite measure up to the hype, especially if you have read the book. If you are planning on taking the kids to see it, still do so, they will still like it. There is no dirty language, no senseless violence and no obligatory sex scenes that you have in 90% of the other movies.

Saw the trailer for Lord of the Rings, now that is something I am looking most forward to. I suppose the anti-Harry Potter folks are going to have a field day with this one too, after all it too features, gasp, magic and wizards! What has this society come to! This is yet another movie with no dirty language, senseless violence or obligatory sex scenes. It's evil I tell you, evil!

21 posted on 11/24/2001 5:09:19 AM PST by SamAdams76
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To: Bug
Good manners---Class is not making your self big-comfortable by making someone small-hurt---you booger!
22 posted on 11/24/2001 5:14:47 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: WaterDragon
Good for your parents!!! More should be like them. My parents were happy to see that the television off, and a book open.
23 posted on 11/24/2001 5:17:11 AM PST by Puppage
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To: All
Have you ever noticed that it is only the Christians around the world who oppose things like Harry Potter? We never hear from the Jews, Hindus, Muslims or any other religious sect.

Why is it that Christians believe that they should be in charge of what the world accepts and rejects? I was born and raised Catholic, went to 12 years of Catholic school. As I get older (42) and am exposed to other beliefs about God (In whom I firmly believe) I begin to see the New Testament in the Bible used by Christians as a sheild to stand behind while they sling arrows of denigration and reproof at others.

Would a true Christ(ian) hate non-Christian so much? Or, rather would he try to understand him and love him regardless of his beliefs?

Ray

24 posted on 11/24/2001 5:34:24 AM PST by raybbr
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To: kattracks
Here's an inteview with Connie Neal who wrote "What's a Christian to do about Harry Potter?"

Neal Interview

25 posted on 11/24/2001 5:35:16 AM PST by texson66
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To: RMrattlesnake
I would not let my kids see that movie. The school they went to was reading my youngest son harry potter without parents promision or knowage. So we home school are kids now. My son want to burn the Harry Potter book the public school gave him.

Parents have the right to let there kids see that movie or read the book. But the public schools should not have the right to choise. In Denver they took a whole elementry school there. The teachers took it apon then selfs to take the kids. The didn't even have to ask parents. Thet is sick.

Please do your kids a favor and employ an English language teacher before it is too late.

26 posted on 11/24/2001 5:44:20 AM PST by TightSqueeze
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To: SamAdams76
One difference. LOTR isn't aimed at children.
27 posted on 11/24/2001 5:45:04 AM PST by AppyPappy
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: raybbr
Have you ever noticed that it is only the Christians around the world who oppose things like Harry Potter?

Have you ever noticed that all Harry Potter fans are racists? < /irrational generalization >

29 posted on 11/24/2001 5:47:08 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: raybbr
Although I totally disagree with the bible-as-censor faction (and incidentally totally agree with post number 21, the film should have kept more of a kid's wonder and tried to be less of a Star Wars contender), you mnight be a bit off on your comments about other religions.

I seem to have noted reports of muslim intolerance in the news of the day.
I know that (very) Orthidox Jews have been known to stone people driving past on the sabbath.
From other news reports I'd guess that athiests are even less capable of accomodating to religion in just about any form...

Narrow minds is narrow minds is narrow minds......

30 posted on 11/24/2001 5:50:42 AM PST by norton
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To: kattracks
There is a segment of the population that considers being against something to be a positive moral act. This way they are able to have a sense of being moral and good simply by being opposed to something or by conducting boycotts or media campaigns rather than by actually changing the character of their own (as opposed to someone else's) lives. Anti-Harry Potterism is just the latest incarnation of anti-nuclear powerism, anti-SUVism, anti-Halloweenism, anti-rock music-ism and anti-Beatle-ism which were more modern versions of anti-technology (Luddites), anti-witch, anti-Jew, anti-Gypsy hysteria of previous centuries.

This phenomenon isn't just limited to "Christian" lands but is ubiquitous. It's a manifestation of the same mentality that gave rise to the systems of taboos so prevalent in animistic societies and is the basis of tribalism: the imposition of unique self-defined characteristics to set one's group off from others but which are later taken to be some inherent measure of human value which one's group has in spades and which the other groups do not have. This, then, is used to prove how depraved the other groups are and, of course, how good one's own group is.

People need devils and a sense of danger to promote solidarity of their own group. In some places these characteristics are used to justify wiping out the other groups (both Naziism and communism have used this approach as have Tutsi/Hutu combatants). In other places, such as in the Western world with subjects like Harry Potter and the environment, people are mostly satisfied with the self-referencing act of masturbating their sense of moral outrage.
31 posted on 11/24/2001 5:53:59 AM PST by aruanan
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To: RMrattlesnake
"I would not let my kids see that movie. The school they went to was reading my youngest son harry potter without parents promision or knowage. So we home school are kids now. My son want to burn the Harry Potter book the public school gave him.
Parents have the right to let there kids see that movie or read the book. But the public schools should not have the right to choise. In Denver they took a whole elementry school there. The teachers took it apon then selfs to take the kids. The didn't even have to ask parents. Thet is sick.

I'm impressed you made the commitment to homeschool your children. I hope someone else is working with them on spelling, punctuation, sentence structure, capitalization, and grammar.

32 posted on 11/24/2001 5:55:46 AM PST by Cable225
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To: raybbr
Have you ever noticed that it is only the Christians around the world who oppose things like Harry Potter?

I don't think this is true - just look at what happened to Salman Rushdie. Book-banning is alive and well in Muslim countries. And please, this is not meant as a defence of this practice, but merely as a reminder that fools exist everywhere.
33 posted on 11/24/2001 5:59:34 AM PST by Economist_MA
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To: SamAdams76
is akin to complaining about the weather in the middle of an earthquake Great point Sam. There is a lot of junk out there, and Harry isn't in the league of that junk at all. I saw it, and agree, there was no character development. I did not read the book--but am now reading the Hobbit. Can't wait for that movie. Harry had some high points, was well produced, but was a little dull because great sets, scenes and technical stuff still can't beat seeing the development of character unfold. V's wife.
34 posted on 11/24/2001 6:03:35 AM PST by ventana
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To: jjbrouwer
Makes me sigh for the good old days you-know-where, when every fifth thread was about John Rocker.

Or was it The Patriot?

35 posted on 11/24/2001 6:04:21 AM PST by dighton
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To: kattracks
witchcraft, Satanisim and pagan mythology

Here is an honest question: Why does learning about a phantasy world, in which things which do not exist in reality are present, harm a child? I guess for this to be true the child would have to think that these things are real. But doesn't it point to a much more serious lack of education and proper child-rearing if children are exposed to books without a helping hand from the parents, explaining the difference between reality and phantasy?

I fail to see the danger in books like Harry Potter simply because I believe that my daughters are able to distinguish between phantasy and reality. Or are the people arguing against these books afraid that these things do in fact exist?
36 posted on 11/24/2001 6:05:01 AM PST by Economist_MA
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To: WaterDragon
Your post (#3) is sensible and reflects my own feelings about the Harry Potter flap.

Some Christian parents will feel it's a bad influence and not permit their children to read the books or see the movie out of a real concern for keeping them from viewing witches as harmless fun.
That is their right and duty if they believe it's harmful to their children. Others will allow their kids to indulge in the Harry Potter fad, being careful to instruct them that it's fantasy...a made-up story, and not to be taken seriously. I see no problem with that, either. It's parental choice based on parental judgement, something parents have to do all the time.

I don't believe that attempting to 'ban' Harry Potter from a public or school library is valid as Christians have no right to dictate what others may read (or watch) and this type of attempted censorship always generates the kind of backlash (and golden opportunity for Christian-bashing) we see every time Harry Potter is mentioned on FR or elsewhere. The fact that school and public libraries have lots of material that may be offensive to Christian children is a reality but beyond protesting the most egregious manifestations of the 'anything goes' attitude of the schools and libraries, there is not a lot that can be done, other than avoidance.

I find that the attacks on Christians who protest Harry Potter are often from the same people who ridicule anyone with religious convictions, attempting to live a spiritual life. Nothing new here. In those cases the Harry Potter fad just becomes a vehicle non-believers can use to criticize and mock Christianity while appearing to be oh-so open-minded and intelligent about the whole thing. Been there, done that. No one convinces anyone of anything but we all get in our shots. Way of the world, which is not and never will be favorable to Christ and those who follow Him.

Jesus warned us of this so no Christian should be shocked or dismayed. Christ was alive before the world was formed and will still reign long, long after 'Harry Potter' has been forgotten. Take heart.

37 posted on 11/24/2001 6:11:04 AM PST by Jim Scott
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To: Jim Scott
I don't believe that attempting to 'ban' Harry Potter from a public or school library is valid as Christians have no right to dictate what others may read

Surely you don't think that Penthouse should be allowed in the elementary school library (hint:Penthouse is banned from school libraries)? People have the right to object to material for any reason. No one is stopping anyone from reading Harry Potter. The question is whether it is appropriate for schools (see Pokemon)

38 posted on 11/24/2001 6:26:23 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: RMrattlesnake
Although I applaud your efforts to provide your children with an appropriate educational philosophy, I am rather concerned that you seem to have a poor command of the English language. Since many homeschoolers network among their strengths, I would hope that you are considering this concept for your children's sake. I'm sure you have other strengths to offer your community.
39 posted on 11/24/2001 8:01:19 AM PST by Kmavp6728
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To: longleaf
And you can say that Dean Cain's career is just as "dead", no?
40 posted on 11/24/2001 8:08:57 AM PST by GreatOne
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To: kattracks
Last January my quadriplegic nephew, who is in my care, became very ill and had to spend two weeks in the hospital. Since hospitals are not staffed or equipped to deal with quadriplegics, I had to "move in" for the duration of his stay.
To pass the time I read the first two books of the Harry Potter series to him. I found them sort of fun but some of the names were hard to pronounce when reading outloud.
Beyond that, the books can only be described as "hack-work" if compared to the great master, J.R.R. Tolkien.
As for promoting witchcraft, how many witches do we find in the good old fairytales and Walt Disney movies? (The old movies - not that crap they produce today.)
41 posted on 11/24/2001 8:24:02 AM PST by eaglewatch
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To: AppyPappy
Surely you don't think that Penthouse should be allowed in the elementary school library...

Let us not attempt to split hairs. People may object to anything they wish and they should if they believe a book would have a detrimental impact on children.

I said they should not attempt to ban non-sexualized, fantasy-based books such as 'Harry Potter', where any negative influence it could have on children is truly a matter of interpretation unlike Penthouse, which is clearly and historically pornographic and requires no interpretation.

42 posted on 11/24/2001 9:54:49 AM PST by Jim Scott
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To: Jim Scott
I find that the attacks on Christians who protest Harry Potter are often from the same people who ridicule anyone with religious convictions, attempting to live a spiritual life. Nothing new here. In those cases the Harry Potter fad just becomes a vehicle non-believers can use to criticize and mock Christianity while appearing to be oh-so open-minded and intelligent about the whole thing.

Ditto. Well said.

43 posted on 11/24/2001 10:08:11 AM PST by Skooz
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To: Kmavp6728
I really do think there is a possibility that that post was an anti-homeschool "plant". If not, your advice is right on target. If it is a "plant", shame on them.
44 posted on 11/24/2001 10:17:13 AM PST by troublesome creek
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To: troublesome creek
I think everyone should just lighten up about that post. Sometimes my posts are mangled when I hit "Preview" and then I clean them up before I hit "Post." I tend to type faster than I am able, and typos abound. Apparently, this poster just hit "Reply" with typos intact rather than cleaning them up and posting with no typos or mispelled words, you know, like all you smart people do.
45 posted on 11/24/2001 10:21:04 AM PST by Skooz
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To: kattracks
Don't you people have anything better to do????????????Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!

Have any of you heard of the concept of "making you look the other way"??????? If you all believe Satan created and or is Harry Potter, do you think maybe he is using these arguments as a distraction from the Really Important Things that are happening and coming to light in the World right now??????

Go Read Some News!

46 posted on 11/24/2001 10:24:58 AM PST by mamaduck
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To: kattracks
In the marketplace of free ideas, Christianity has survived quite nicely. O, ye of little faith.
47 posted on 11/24/2001 10:26:34 AM PST by self_reliant
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To: Jim Scott
I see nothing wrong with parents objecting to materials they feel are detrimental for whatever reason. It could be Captain Planet or Pokemon or anti-gun books. They certainly have done it with religious books. If parents want their kids to read Potter, they can do it without involving the schools.
48 posted on 11/24/2001 10:30:13 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: mamaduck
Don't you people have anything better to do????????????

Don't you have anything better to do than play thread mom?

49 posted on 11/24/2001 10:31:24 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: AppyPappy
I have a feeling mamaduck was perusing the Latest Posts, saw the words "Harry Potter" and "Christians" in the title, and thought "YES! Now I can go and belittle those obnoxious little fundies. Oh, how I hate those bible-thumping bigots," and made her way here to post her "tolerance" for all to see.

But, that's just a feeling I have. I may be wrong.

50 posted on 11/24/2001 10:35:12 AM PST by Skooz
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