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16 Questions on the (Kennedy) Assassination - A Must Read For All Assassination Buffs
The Academic JFK Assassination Web Site ^ | September 6, 1964 | Bertrand Russell

Posted on 11/27/2001 5:15:48 PM PST by GreatOne

The official version of the assassination of President Kennedy has been so riddled with contradictions that it is been abandoned and rewritten no less than three times. Blatant fabrications have received very widespread coverage by the mass media, but denials of these same lies have gone unpublished. Photographs, evidence and affidavits have been doctored out of recognition. Some of the most important aspects of the case against Lee Harvey Oswald have been completely blacked out. Meanwhile, the F.B.I., the police and the Secret Service have tried to silence key witnesses or instruct them what evidence to give. Others involved have disappeared or died in extraordinary circumstances.

It is facts such as these that demand attention, and which the Warren Commission should have regarded as vital. Although I am writing before the publication of the Warren Commission’’s report, leaks to the press have made much of its contents predictable. Because of the high office of its members and the fact of its establishment by President Johnson, the Commission has been widely regarded as a body of holy men appointed to pronounce the truth. An impartial examination of the composition and conduct of the Commission suggests quite otherwise.

The Warren Commission has been utterly unrepresentative of the American people. It consisted of two Democrats, Senator Russell of Georgia and Congressman Boggs of Louisiana, both of whose racist views have brought shame on the United States; two Republicans, Senator Cooper of Kentucky and Congressman Gerald R. Ford of Michigan, the latter of whom is a leader of his local Goldwater movement and an associate of the F.B.I.; Allen Dulles, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and Mr. McCloy, who has been referred to as the spokesman for the business community. Leadership of the filibuster in the Senate against the Civil Rights Bill prevented Senator Russell from attending hearings during the period. The Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, Earl Warren, who rightly commands respect, was finally persuaded, much against his will, to preside over the Commission, and it was his involvement above all else that helped lend the Commission an aura of legality and authority. Yet many of its members were also members of those very groups which have done so much to distort and suppress the facts about the assassination. Because of their connection with the Government, not one member would have been permitted under U.S. law to serve on a jury had Oswald faced trial. It is small wonder that the Chief Justice himself remarked that the release of some of the Commission’’s information ““might not be in your lifetime”” Here, then, is my first question: Why were all the members of the Warren Commission closely connected with the U.S. Government?

If the composition of the Commission was suspect, its conduct confirmed one’’s worst fears. No counsel was permitted to act for Oswald, so that cross-examination was barred. Later, under pressure, the Commission appointed the President of the American Bar Association, Walter Craig, one of the supporters of the Goldwater movement in Arizona, to represent Oswald. To my knowledge, he did not attend hearings, but satisfied himself with representation by observers.

In the name of national security, the Commission’’s hearings were held in secret, thereby continuing the policy which has marked the entire course of the case. This prompts my second question: If, as we are told, Oswald was the lone assassin, where is the issue of national security? Indeed, precisely the same question must be put here as was posed in France during the Dreyfus case: If the Government is so certain of its case, why has it conducted all its inquiries in the strictest secrecy?

************

At the outset the Commission appointed six panels through which it would conduct its enquiry. They considered: (1) What did Oswald do on November 22, 1963? (2) What was Oswald’’s background? (3) What did Oswald do in the U.S. Marine Corps, and in the Soviet Union? (4) How did Ruby kill Oswald? (5) What is Ruby’’s background? (6) What efforts were taken to protect the President on November 22? This raises my fourth question: Why did the Warren Commission not establish a panel to deal with the question of who killed President Kennedy?

All the evidence given to the Commission has been classified ““Top Secret,”” including even a request that hearings be held in public. Despite this the Commission itself leaked much of the evidence to the press, though only if the evidence tended to prove Oswald the lone assassin. Thus, Chief Justice Warren held a press conference after Oswald’’s wife, Marina, had testified. He said, that she believed her husband was the assassin. Before Oswald’’s brother Robert testified, he gained the Commission’’s agreement not to comment on what he said. After he had testified for two days, the newspapers were full of stories that ““a member of the Commission”” had told the press that Robert Oswald had just testified that he believed that his brother was an agent of the Soviet Union. Robert Oswald was outraged by this, and he said that he could not remain silent while lies were told about his testimony. He had never said this and he had never believed it. All that he had told the Commission was that he believed his brother was innocent and was in no way involved in the assassination.

The methods adopted by the Commission have indeed been deplorable, but it is important to challenge the entire role of the Warren Commission. It stated that it would not conduct its own investigation, but rely instead on the existing governmental agencies——the F.B.I., the Secret Service and the Dallas police. Confidence in the Warren Commission thus presupposes confidence in these three institutions. Why have so many liberals abandoned their own responsibility to a Commission whose circumstances they refuse to examine?

It is known that the strictest and most elaborate security precautions ever taken for a President of the United States were ordered for November 22 in Dallas. The city had a reputation for violence and was the home of some of the most extreme right-wing fanatics in America. Mr. and Mrs. Lyndon Johnson had been assailed there in 1960 when he was a candidate for the Vice-Presidency. Adlai Stevenson had been physically attacked when he spoke in the city only a month before Kennedy’’s visit. On the morning of November 22, the Dallas Morning News carried a full-page advertisement associating the President with Communism. The city was covered with posters showing the President’’s picture and headed ““Wanted for Treason.”” The Dallas list of subversives comprised 23 names, of which Oswald’’s was the first. All of them were followed that day, except Oswald. Why did the authorities follow many persons as potential assassins and fail to observe Oswald’’s entry into the book depository building while allegedly carrying a rifle over three feet long?

The President’’s route for his drive through Dallas was widely known and was printed in the Dallas Morning News on November 22. At the last minute the Secret Service changed a small part of their plans so that the President left Main Street and turned into Houston and Elm Streets. This alteration took the President past the book depository building from which it is alleged that Oswald shot him. How Oswald is supposed to have known of this change has never been explained. Why was the President’’s route changed at the last minute to take him past Oswald’’s place of work?

After the assassination and Oswald’’s arrest, judgment was pronounced swiftly: Oswald was the assassin, and he had acted alone. No attempt was made to arrest others, no road blocks were set up round the area, and every piece of evidence which tended to incriminate Oswald was announced to the press by the Dallas District Attorney, Mr. Wade. In such a way millions of people were prejudiced against Oswald before there was any opportunity for him to be brought to trial. The first theory announced by the authorities was that the President’’s car was in Houston Street, approaching the book depository building, when Oswald opened fire. When available photographs and eyewitnesses had shown this to be quite untrue, the theory was abandoned and a new one formulated which placed the vehicle in its correct position. Meanwhile, however, D.A. Wade had announced that three days after Oswald’’s room in Dallas had been searched, a map had been found there on which the book depository building had been circled and dotted lines drawn from the building to a vehicle on Houston Street, showing the alleged bullet trajectory had been planned in advance. After the first theory was proved false, the Associated Press put out the following story on November 27: ““Dallas authorities announced today that there never was a map.””

The second theory correctly placed the President’’s car on Elm Street, 50 to 75 yards past the book depository, but had to contend with the difficulty that the President was shot from the front, in the throat. How did Oswald manage to shoot the President in the front from behind? The F.B.I. held a series of background briefing sessions for Life magazine, which in its issue of December 6 explained that the President had turned completely round just at the time he was shot. This too, was soon shown to be entirely false. It was denied by several witnesses and films, and the previous issue of Life itself had shown the President looking forward as he was hit. Theory number two was abandoned.

In order to retain the basis of all official thinking, that Oswald was the lone assassin, it now became necessary to construct a third theory with the medical evidence altered to fit it. For the first month no Secret Service agent had ever spoken to the three doctors who had tried to save Kennedy’’s life in the Parkland Memorial Hospital. Now two agents spent three hours with the doctors and persuaded them that they were all misinformed: the entrance wound in the President’’s throat had been an exit wound, and the bullet had not ranged down towards the lungs. Asked by the press how they could have been so mistaken, Dr. McClelland advanced two reasons: they had not seen the autopsy report——and they had not known that Oswald was behind the President! The autopsy report, they had been told by the Secret Service, showed that Kennedy had been shot from behind. The agents, however, had refused to show the report to the doctors, who were entirely dependent on the word of the Secret Service for this suggestion. The doctors made it clear that they were not permitted to discuss the case. The third theory, with the medical evidence rewritten, remains the basis of the case against Oswald at this moment. Why has the medical evidence concerning the President’’s death been altered out of recognition?

***************

Although Oswald is alleged to have shot the President from behind, there are many witnesses who are confident that the shots came from the front. Among them are two reporters from the Forth Worth Star Telegram, four from the Dallas Morning News, and two people who were standing in front of the book depository building itself, the director of the book depository and the vice-president of the firm. It appears that only two people immediately entered the building: the director, Mr. Roy S. Truly, and a Dallas police officer, Seymour Weitzman. Both thought that the shots had come from in front of the President’’s vehicle. On first running in that direction, Weitzman was informed by ““someone”” that he thought the shots had come from the building, so he rushed back there. Truly entered with him in order to assist with his knowledge of the building. Mr. Jesse Curry, the Chief of Police in Dallas, has stated that he was immediately convinced that the shots came from the building. If anyone else believes this, he has been reluctant to say so to date. It is also known that the first bulletin to go out on Dallas police radios stated that ““the shots came from a triple overpass in front of the presidential automobile.”” In addition, there is the consideration that after the first shot the vehicle was brought almost to a halt by the trained Secret Service driver, an unlikely response if the shots had indeed come from behind. Certainly Mr. Roy Kellerman, who was in charge of the Secret Service operation in Dallas that day, and travelled in the presidential car, looked to the front as the shots were fired. The Secret Service has had all the evidence removed from the car, so it is no longer possible to examine it. What is the evidence to substantiate the allegation that the President was shot from behind?

Photographs taken at the scene of the crime could be most helpful. One young lady standing just to the left of the presidential car as the shots were fired took photographs of the vehicle just before and during the shooting, and was thus able to get into her picture the entire front of the book depository building. Two F.B.I. agents immediately took the film which she took. Why has the F.B.I. refused to publish what could be the most reliable piece of evidence in the whole case?

In this connection it is noteworthy also that it is impossible to obtain the originals of photographs bearing upon the case. When Time magazine published a photograph of Oswald’’s arrest——the only one ever seen——the entire background was blacked out for reasons which have never been explained. It is difficult to recall an occasion for so much falsification of photographs as has happened in the Oswald case.

The affidavit by Police Office Weitzman, who entered the book depository building, stated that he found the alleged murder rifle on the sixth floor. (It was first announced that the rifle had been found on the fifth floor, but this was soon altered.) It was a German 7.65 mm. Mauser. Late the following day, the F.B.I. issued its first proclamation. Oswald had purchased in March 1963 an Italian 6.5 mm. Mannlicher-Carcano. D.A. Wade immediately altered the nationality and size of the weapon to conform to the F.B.I. statement.

Several photographs have been published of the alleged murder weapon. On February 21, Life magazine carried on its cover a picture of ““Lee Oswald with the weapons he used to kill President Kennedy and Officer Tippitt [sic].”” On page 80, Life explained that the photograph was taken during March or April of 1963. According to the F.B.I., Oswald purchased his pistol in September 1963. The New York Times carried a picture of the alleged murder weapon being taken by police into the Dallas police station. The rifle is quite different. Experts have stated that no rifle resembling the one in the Life picture has even been manufactured. The New York Times also carried the same photograph as Life, but left out the telescopic sights. On March 2, Newsweek used the same photograph but painted in an entirely new rifle. Then on April 13 the Latin American edition of Life carried the same picture on its cover as the U.S. edition had on February 21, but in the same issue on page 18 it had the same picture with the rifle altered. How is it that millions of people have been misled by complete forgeries in the press?

The authorities interrogated Oswald for nearly 48 hours without allowing him to contact a lawyer, despite his repeated requests to do so. The director of the F.B.I. in Dallas was a man with considerable experience. American Civil Liberties Union lawyers were in Dallas requesting to see Oswald and were not allowed to do so. By interrogating Oswald for 48 hours without access to lawyers, the F.B.I. created conditions which made a trial of Oswald more difficult. A confession or evidence obtained from a man held 48 hours in custody is likely to be inadmissible in a U.S. court of law. The F.B.I. director conducted his interrogation in a manner which made the use of material secured in such a fashion worthless to him. This raises the question of whether he expected the trial to take place.

Another falsehood concerning the shooting was a story circulated by the Associated Press on November 23 from Los Angeles. This reported Oswald’’s former superior officer in the Marine Corps as saying that Oswald was a crack shot and a hot-head. The story was published widely. Three hours later AP sent out a correction deleting the entire story from Los Angeles. The officer had checked his records and it had turned out that he was talking about another man. He had never known Oswald. To my knowledge the correction has yet to be published by a single major publication.

The Dallas police took a paraffin test on Oswald’’s face and hands to try to establish that he had fired a weapon on November 22. The Chief of the Dallas Police, Jesse Curry, announced on November 23 that the result of the test ““proves Oswald is the assassin.”” The Director of the F.B.I. in the Dallas-Fort Worth area in charge of the investigation stated: ““I have seen the paraffin test. The paraffin test proves that Oswald had nitrates and gunpowder on his hands and face. It proves he fired a rifle on November 22.”” Not only does this unreliable test not prove any such thing, it was later discovered that the test on Oswald’’s face was in fact negative, suggesting that it was unlikely he fired a rifle that day. Why was the result of the paraffin test altered before being announced by the authorities?

************

Oswald, it will be recalled, was originally arrested and charged with the murder of Patrolman Tippitt [sic]. Tippitt was killed at 1:06 p.m. on November 22 by a man who first engaged him in conversation, then caused him to get out of the stationary police car in which he was sitting and shot him with a pistol Miss Helen L. Markham, who states that she is the sole eye-witness to this crime, gave the Dallas police a description of the assailant. After signing her affidavit, she was instructed by the F.B.I., the Secret Service and many police officers that she was not permitted to discuss the case with anyone. The affidavit’’s only description of the killer was that he was a ““young white man.”” Miss Markham later revealed that the killer had run right up to her and past her, brandishing the pistol, and she repeated the description of the murderer which she had given to the police. He was, she said, ““short, a little heavy, and had somewhat bushy hair.”” (The police description of Oswald was that he was of average height, or a little taller, was slim and had receding fair hair.) Miss Markham’’s affidavit is the entire case against Oswald for the murder of Patrolman Tippitt, yet District Attorney Wade asserted: ““We have more evidence to prove Oswald killed Tippit than we have to show he killed the President.”” The case against Oswald for the murder of Tippitt, he continued, was an absolutely strong case. Why was the only description of Tippitt’’s killer deliberately omitted by the police from the affidavit of the sole eye-witness?

Oswald’’s description was broadcast by the Dallas police only 12 minutes after the President was shot. This raises one of the most extraordinary questions ever posed in a murder case: Why was Oswald’’s description in connection with the murder of Patrolman Tippitt broadcast over Dallas police radio at 12:43 p.m. on November 22, when Tippitt was not shot until 1:06 p.m.?

According to Mr. Bob Considine, writing in the New York Journal American, there had been another person who had heard the shots that were fired at Tippitt. Warren Reynolds had heard shooting in the street from a nearby room and had rushed to the window to see the murderer run off. Reynolds himself was later shot through the head by a rifleman. A man was arrested for this crime but produced an alibi. His girl-friend, Betty Mooney McDonald, told the police she had been with him at the time Reynolds was shot, according to Mr. Considine. The Dallas police immediately dropped the charges, even before Reynolds had time to recover consciousness, and attempt to identify his assailant. The man at once disappeared, and two days later the police arrested Betty Mooney McDonald on a minor charge and it was announced that she had hanged herself in the police cell. She had been a striptease artist in Jack Ruby’’s nightclub, according to Mr. Considine.

Another witness to receive extraordinary treatment in the Oswald case was his wife, Marina. She was taken to the jail while her husband was still alive and shown a rifle by Chief of Police Jesse Curry. Asked if it were Oswald’’s, she replied that she believed Oswald had a rifle but that it didn’’t look like that. She and her mother-in-law were in great danger following the assassination because of the threat of public revenge on them. At this time they were unable to obtain a single police officer to protect them. Immediately after Oswald was killed, however, the Secret service illegally held both women against their will. After three days they were separated and Marina has never again been accessible to the public. Held in custody for nine weeks and questioned almost daily by the F.B.I. and Secret Service, she finally testified to the Warren Commission and, according to Earl Warren, said that she believed her husband was the assassin. The Chief Justice added that the next day they intended to show Mrs. Oswald the murder weapon and the Commission was fairly confident that she would identify it as her husband’’s. The following day it was announced that this had indeed happened. Mrs. Oswald, we are informed, is still in the custody of the Secret Service. To isolate a witness for nine weeks and to subject her to repeated questioning by the Secret Service in this manner is reminiscent of police behavior in other countries, where it is called brainwashing. The only witness produced to show that Oswald carried a rifle before the assassination stated that he saw a brown paper parcel about two feet long in the back seat of Oswald’’s car. The rifle which the police ““produced”” was almost 3½½ feet long. How was it possible for Earl Warren to forecast that Marina Oswald’’s evidence would be exactly the reverse of what she had previously testified?

After Ruby had killed Oswald, D.A. Wade made a statement about Oswald’’s movements following the assassination. He explained that Oswald had taken a bus, but he described the point at which Oswald had entered the vehicle as seven blocks away from the point located by the bus driver in his affidavit. Oswald, Wade continued, then took a taxi driven by a Daryll Click, who had signed an affidavit. An inquiry at the City Transportation Company revealed that no such taxi driver had ever existed in Dallas. Presented with this evidence, Wade altered the driver’’s name to William Whaley. The driver’’s log book showed that a man answering Oswald’’s description had been picked up at 12:30. The President was shot at 12:31. D.A. Wade made no mention of this. Wade has been D.A. in Dallas for 14 years and before that was an F.B.I. agent. How does a District Attorney of Wade’’s great experience account for all the extraordinary changes in evidence and testimony which he has announced during the Oswald case?

These are only a few of the questions raised by the official versions of the assassination and by the way in which the entire case against Oswald has been conducted. Sixteen questions are no substitute for a full examination of all the factors in this case, but I hope that they indicate the importance of such an investigation. I am indebted to Mr. Mark Lane, the New York criminal lawyer who was appointed counsel for Oswald by his mother, for much of the information in this article. Mr. Lane’’s enquiries, which are continuing, deserve widespread support. A Citizen’’s Committee of Inquiry has been established in New York, at Room 422, 156 Fifth Avenue, New York. N.Y. (telephone YU9-6850) for such a purpose, and comparable committees are being set up in Europe.

In Britain, I invited people eminent in the intellectual life of the country to join a ““Who Killed Kennedy Committee,”” which at the moment of writing consists of the following people: Mr. John Arden, playwright; Mrs. Carolyn Wedgwood Benn, from Cincinnati, wife of Anthony Wedgwood Benn, M.P.; Lord Boyd-Orr, former director-general of the U.N. Food and Agricultural Organization and a Nobel Peace Prize winner; Mr. John Calder, publisher; Professor William Empsom, Professor of English Literature at Sheffield University; Mr. Victor Golancz, publisher; Mr. Michael Foot, Member of Parliament; Mr. Kingsley Martin, former editor of the New Statesman; Sir Compton Mackenzie, writer; Mr. J.B. Priestley, playwright and author; Sir Herbert Read, art critic; Mr. Tony Richardson, film director; Dr. Mervyn Stockwood, Bishop of Southwark; Professor Hugh Trevor-Roper, Regius Professor of Modern History at Oxford University; Mr. Kenneth Tynan, Literary Manager of the National Theatre; and myself.

We view the problem with the utmost seriousness. U.S. Embassies have long ago reported to Washington world-wide disbelief in the official charges against Oswald, but this has scarcely been reflected by the American press. No U.S. television program or mass circulation newspaper has challenged the permanent basis of all the allegations——that Oswald was the assassin, and that he acted alone. It is a task which is left to the American people.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: kennedyassassination
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To: willyboyishere
I haven't. My favorites are the Jim Maars compilation book, and "Kingfish", which is about Carlos Marcello, the mafia godfather of the South.
51 posted on 11/27/2001 8:09:05 PM PST by GreatOne
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To: irish_lad
He may have died 38 years ago, but I still care about the truth of how and why he died. Even the house investigation in 1978 concluded there was a conspiracy in his assassination.
I don't believe in magic bullets, sorry, and I know the Warren report was a real live coverup done deliberately on the orders of Johnson.
Many people since HAVE talked, this didn't remain a secret. Unfortunately, there are many who still manage to call anyone who knows we were lied to a nut, keeping the lie alive.
I hope in my lifetime the truth is finally told. It has been, it just needs to be confirmed so those of us who do care can finally say a resounding, "finally, the truth is really 'out there'.
52 posted on 11/27/2001 8:10:39 PM PST by ladyinred
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To: BamaFan
What do you think happened to Kennedy's brain, do you think it was just accidentally misplaced?

Do you have any idea why the Government refuses to declassify vast amounts of information on American POWs from WWII who were "liberated" by the Red Army from German POW camps? During the '90's, I and others had many FOIA requests concerning sightings of Americans in the Soviet GULAG turned down on National Security Grounds. We got a few reports released, but many, many thousands of pages of information remains classified. These were all specific documents we requested. It is said that many documents in the Eisenhower Library, concerning the POWs, will not be declassified during the life-time of anyone now alive. Is this the kind of thing you support?

53 posted on 11/27/2001 8:11:37 PM PST by Judge Parker
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: GreatOne
On the 25th anniversay of President Kennedy's murder, one of the networks, I think it was CBS spent several days showing the events as they unfolded.

Watching the real news accounts of those days made me realize what a different world we live in now. We were so naive, so trusting then.
The entire thing was so unbelievable to the viewer of it in the future mode when we know more, and are not so blindly trusting of the media and some politicans.

Oswalds murder was a joke! I was just amazed watching it as it was 25 years later, complete with an ambulance that just happened to be right outside! The obvious Ruby coming out of the crowd with that gun while the police just watch and do nothing to stop him!

I wish they would show all of this again, I am sure there is more we could see through different eyes now!

Did anyone else see this besides me? If so, did you experience the same amazement I did that the public bought this at the time?

56 posted on 11/27/2001 8:18:09 PM PST by ladyinred
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To: Fred25; Shooter 2.5; mlo
Alert. - Gear up for agit-prop.
57 posted on 11/27/2001 8:21:39 PM PST by tpaine
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To: GreatOne
What is the evidence to substantiate the allegation that the President was shot from behind?

The emergency room doctor who treated JFK died about a week ago.--No, it wasn't under suspicious circumstances. He just got old and died.

But he never changed his mind about one thing. The gunshots came from the front. You would think that an emergency room doctor at Parkland Hospital would know gunshot wounds--they see several each and every day.

58 posted on 11/27/2001 8:21:52 PM PST by San Jacinto
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To: BamaFan
Regarding the Parkland doctors and Dr. McClelland. I spent a number of years working at Parkland (years after the fact, none of them in the 60's). I worked closely with Dr. McClelland and have read is interrogation and re-interrogation by none other than Arlen Specter. In my opinion, a finer man and a finer physician and surgeon, you will never meet than Dr. Mac. He is universally loved and admired by all who have ever had occasion to deal with him in any capacity. He is a surgical scholar of international reknown and is known for publishing for years and years, the "Parkland papers" a monthly tour of the surgical literature.

When Specter interviews him the first time, Dr. Mac says that the neck wound was an entrance wound. The tracheostomy that was done in the ER, of course, obliterated the wound on the front of the neck, so it is only those who where there, Dr. Mac, Dr. Jones, Dr. Clark, Dr. Perry and others who were in a position to know what the neck wound was like. In particular the autopsy would provide no information. When Specter returns about a month later, he tells Dr. Mac something like "considering that we think JFK was shot from the back, with a round travelling at such and such a speed etc. etc. do you think the wound on the front was consistent with an exit wound?" Dr. Mac replies something to the effect of "with all the assumptions you stated, I guess it could be consistent". With that Specter thanks him and packs up and goes back to DC, mission accomplished. Parkland was and is a very busy trauma center and Dr. Mac would have seen hundreds if not thousands of such wounds and would have known the difference between and exit and entrance wounds, and never would have said it was one or the other if he were not sure.

For my money it's Dr. Mac's word against Arlen Specter's, and knowing Dr. Mac personally and knowing all that Arlen Specter has done since, I'll put my money with Dr. Mac and say that the neck wound was an entrance wound.

Also, if you believe the Warren Commission and the magic bullet theory, you have to believe that this most magical of all bullets, goes through JFK, hits Connolly's wrist, then his thigh, and then magically falls out and is found in pristine condition on a stretcher in the Parkland ER. I have spent many, many nights in the Parkland ER taking care of all sorts of gunshot wounds and I can assure one and all that I have never seen a bullet appear on a stretcher, pristine or otherwise after passing through folks. Things just don't work that way.

59 posted on 11/27/2001 8:26:27 PM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: Judge Parker
What do you think happened to Kennedy's brain, do you think it was just accidentally misplaced?

No, and neither did HSCA. Actually, they thought the following regarding what happened to Kennedy's brain:
PART V. CONCLUSIONS

(148) Despite these efforts, the committee was not able to determine precisely what happened to the missing materials. The evidence indicates that the materials were not buried with the body at reinterment. It seems apparent that Angela Novello did remove the footlocker containing to the materials from the office of Mrs. Lincoln at the direction of Robert Kennedy, and that Herman Kahn had knowledge of this transaction. After the removal from Lincoln's office, Robert Kennedy most likely acquired possession of or at least personal control over these materials. Burke Marshall's opinion that Robert Kennedy obtained and disposed of these items himself to prevent any future public display supports this theory.

(149) There are least two possible reasons why Robert Kennedy would not have retained the autopsy photographs and X-rays. First, the only materials retained were physical specimens from the body of his brother: Tissue sections, blood smear slides, and the container of gross material. He may have understandably felt more strongly about preventing the misuse of these physical materials than the photographs and X-rays. Second, the Justice Department under Ramsey Clark pushed hard to acquire the photographs and X-rays but did not request the physical materials. Even if Robert Kennedy had wished to prevent the release of all the autopsy materials, he was not in a position to do so when confronted with Justice Department demands.

(150) Consequently, although the committee has not been able to uncover any direct evidence of the fate of the missing materials, circumstantial evidence tends to show that Robert Kennedy either destroyed these materials or otherwise rendered them inaccessible.

60 posted on 11/27/2001 8:29:01 PM PST by general_re
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To: alien2
It started with Pearl Harbor. That was our first major government-sponsored cover-up.

And this knowledge is based on what?

There have been several articles on this recently, which are available on the internet. Hopefully someone will post a link for you. If not, I'll send you some myself by the end of the week.

61 posted on 11/27/2001 8:32:04 PM PST by GreatOne
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
Did you ever have an opportunity to discuss this issue with him? I'd be very interested to hear what he had to say (as, I'm sure, would others).
62 posted on 11/27/2001 8:34:34 PM PST by GreatOne
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
For my money it's Dr. Mac's word against Arlen Specter's, and knowing Dr. Mac personally and knowing all that Arlen Specter has done since, I'll put my money with Dr. Mac and say that the neck wound was an entrance wound.

Might just as well toss a coin ;)
63 posted on 11/27/2001 8:35:48 PM PST by general_re
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: GreatOne
People knew the new route because barricades were up running around the corner near the Library/Book Depository.
65 posted on 11/27/2001 8:41:49 PM PST by PatriotGames
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To: GreatOne
Did you ever have an opportunity to discuss this issue with him? I'd be very interested to hear what he had to say (as, I'm sure, would others).

You know I'm embarrassed to say I don't recall if I did or not. As you can imagine, he was pretty careful about things that he said about this incident, and it just wasn't something that would often come up and it was sort of something that you could just bring up on your own.

I do definitely remember that JAMA did a interview with Dr. Mac and a few others involved sometime in the early 90's. I don't have a reference but it might not be that hard to find. I remember in the JAMA interview that Dr. Mac clearly stated his reluctance to believe the Warren Commision's findings. That much I am very sure of.

66 posted on 11/27/2001 8:45:48 PM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: Russell Scott
Is there evidence the MOB was behind RK's death?
67 posted on 11/27/2001 8:51:17 PM PST by Freedom of Speech Wins
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To: general_re
Good post re: coin toss and fragments. I would say that
  1. They hadn't noticed the back wound. While speculating about fragments etc. they were missing the key piece of information which was the wound in the back. That does make a difference as one thing to remember is that bullets tend to travel in straight lines and you try to match up wounds of exit with wounds of entrance and vice versa
  2. I wasn't aware of the study that you quoted. Don't know if there are any other studies that would tend to refute it.

68 posted on 11/27/2001 8:52:37 PM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: GreatOne
Cool. It was getting boring around here :)

This came off of Dr. Ken Rahn's site. He has some other good stuff on there. Of course, some of it is there just to show how wacky some of the conspiracists are.

69 posted on 11/27/2001 8:53:23 PM PST by mlo
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To: ladyinred
I had to sit and think a minute back to those days. I honestly don't remember how my friends thought about a "conspiracy", but I know that I didn't buy the official version for a minute. And I was young and stupid in those days.

I know that I read several contemporary newspaper & magazine articles that raised questions about the event. Plus, I think it was Life that showed the pictures and stories of all those people who were "suicided", murdered, etc. Dorothy Kilgalen was one. I always thought she was silly on that TV game show, but she was a pretty smart cookie. As a legitimate journalist, she was getting too close to the truth.

One very strong memory I have of Kennedy is that I hated him almost as much as I do x42. I STILL blame him for setting into motion those events and laws that have weakened our country. After all these years, it is nice to see other people coming to like conclusions. I am finally justified after standing alone in those days. From the perspective of history, Americans are realizing that Kennedy was NOT a "god", and "Camelot" never was.

70 posted on 11/27/2001 8:54:47 PM PST by JudyB1938
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To: ladyinred
I had to sit and think a minute back to those days. I honestly don't remember how my friends thought about a "conspiracy", but I know that I didn't buy the official version for a minute. And I was young and stupid in those days.

I know that I read several contemporary newspaper & magazine articles that raised questions about the event. Plus, I think it was Life that showed the pictures and stories of all those people who were "suicided", murdered, etc. Dorothy Kilgalen was one. I always thought she was silly on that TV game show, but she was a pretty smart cookie. As a legitimate journalist, she was getting too close to the truth.

One very strong memory I have of Kennedy is that I hated him almost as much as I do x42. I STILL blame him for setting into motion those events and laws that have weakened our country. After all these years, it is nice to see other people coming to like conclusions. I am finally justified after standing alone in those days. From the perspective of history, Americans are realizing that Kennedy was NOT a "god", and "Camelot" never was.

71 posted on 11/27/2001 8:55:50 PM PST by JudyB1938
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To: JudyB1938
Oops. Sorry. Don't know why that double posted.
72 posted on 11/27/2001 8:58:04 PM PST by JudyB1938
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To: Judge Parker
What do you think happened to Kennedy's brain, do you think it was just accidentally misplaced?

Surprisingly, considering all we've heard about this, this is not much of a mystery. There is a paper trail on the brain. It turns out that Bobby Kennedy removed it and all the biological samples from the archives.

See here

73 posted on 11/27/2001 9:00:35 PM PST by mlo
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To: GreatOne
Sure, a gunshot from the back causes his head to go backwards - what a bunch of crap?

Great. Then how do you deal with the fact that his head went forwards? Seriously. Look at Zapruder frame 312 (before the shot) and frame 313 (head explodes) and you will see his head is driven forward. This happens in an instant, so the force is considerable. The fall backward by comparison is long and gradual. It is simply him falling back.

74 posted on 11/27/2001 9:04:28 PM PST by mlo
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To: GreatOne
jeez! didn't oliver stone settle all this?
75 posted on 11/27/2001 9:12:35 PM PST by rockfish59
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To: ladyinred
hi ladyinred,

He may have died 38 years ago, but I still care about the truth of how and why he died. Even the house investigation in 1978 concluded there was a conspiracy in his assassination.

The House made its conclusion at the last minute based solely on the acoustic evidence. The acoustic evidence is false. On ALL of the important issues the House agreed with the Warren Commission. They specifically looked into almost every conspiracy claim you've heard or will hear here, and disproved them all.

I don't believe in magic bullets, sorry, and I know the Warren report was a real live coverup done deliberately on the orders of Johnson.

You don't know that since there is no way for you to know that. You may think that. As for magic bullets, nobody believes in magic bullets, not even the Warren Commission. The people that tell you the single bullet theory involves a bullet that does all these magical things in midair, those people are lying to you (and you might rightfully consider why they would do that). The single bullet theory is a simple, straight line trajectory through Kennedy's neck and into Connaly. It is the only explanation consistent with the evidence. That is why both the Warren Commission and the House Committee accepted it.

Many people since HAVE talked, this didn't remain a secret. Unfortunately, there are many who still manage to call anyone who knows we were lied to a nut, keeping the lie alive.

Many people have made up things. That is the problem.

I hope in my lifetime the truth is finally told. It has been, it just needs to be confirmed so those of us who do care can finally say a resounding, "finally, the truth is really 'out there'

And wouldn't it be ironic to wake up in heaven and find out you heard the truth all along, but all these people with agendas had spread so much false information that you rejected it?

76 posted on 11/27/2001 9:14:39 PM PST by mlo
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To: San Jacinto
But he never changed his mind about one thing. The gunshots came from the front. You would think that an emergency room doctor at Parkland Hospital would know gunshot wounds--they see several each and every day.

Except that he wasn't one of the doctor's that treated JFK, he didn't see those wounds, but he wrote a book full of falsehoods many years later.

see here

77 posted on 11/27/2001 9:20:03 PM PST by mlo
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
"The President’s route for his drive through Dallas was widely known and was printed in the Dallas Morning News on November 22. At the last minute the Secret Service changed a small part of their plans so that the President left Main Street and turned into Houston and Elm Streets. This alteration took the President past the book depository building from which it is alleged that Oswald shot him. How Oswald is supposed to have known of this change has never been explained. Why was the President’s route changed at the last minute to take him past Oswald’s place of work?"

This is false, and a very old myth. The route wasn't changed. The very route they took was published in both newspapers. One paper had a detailed map, one had a more schematic map, but the route never changed.

78 posted on 11/27/2001 9:24:21 PM PST by mlo
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To: willyboyishere
Thanks for your posts on this thread - very interesting info!
79 posted on 11/27/2001 9:26:18 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: planter
I've checked out the site...

Interesting reading.

If anyone has seen the Zapruder film at real speed you can clearly see that the Secret Serviceman driving Kennedy's car noticably slowed the vehicle just before the head shot [this is no hype, check it out yourself]...once the head shot struck home the car speeds up considerably and away.

Until someone can explain the practical motive behind slowing down a vehicle in the middle of an assasination attempt [I "KNOW" that they are taught to maintain speed at all times, especially when in a small convoy, with vehicles behind...and once anything goes down..the order is to Haul A** and never "slow down"] I will always think something was definately afoot that day in Dealy Plaza.

Seriously...I want to hear a reasonable explanation for this. I am ready to accept the truth. I am no "buff" or minor league theorist...I am simply going off of what I personally saw.

That Limousine almost comes to an abrupt stop...

80 posted on 11/27/2001 9:26:38 PM PST by VaBthang4
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To: GreatOne
1) Explain to me why JFK's head jerks backwards at the fatal shot. That would seem to indicate beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was shot from the front.

It wouldn't, but it went forward first anyway.

2) Your assertion that the 2nd shot was a straight line I believe came from a computer generated mock-up on a PBS program. Aside from the source, the way the bodies were contorted looks like the same contortions Nixon's secretary went through to "accidentally" erase those 18 minutes, if you know what I mean.

The PBS show was only one demonstration. The bodies really weren't lined up paralell, on in front of the other. That's the reality, it isn't contortion.

3) The way the doctors were hammered by the Secret Service, and the fact that all records are sealed for 75 years (I believe), leads me to think that there is a lot of cover up going on.

They weren't "hammered". The records are no longer sealed. They have been released. Oh, I guess you didn't hear that because they didn't show anything.

81 posted on 11/27/2001 9:29:19 PM PST by mlo
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To: VaBthang4
That Limousine almost comes to an abrupt stop...

They stop for baby ducks.

LOOK OUT LOOK OUT LOOK OUT!

Whether he heard me, I'll never know . .

82 posted on 11/27/2001 9:31:42 PM PST by alcuin
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To: Chemnitz
The JFK assassination is full of basic conflicts. The Dealy Plaza route made a perfect setting for an ambush. Bullets were flying all over. I think it is interesting how Nixon happened to be there and taunted JFK in print about using the presidential limo bubble. JFK did not use it, making the assassination possible.

There were 3 shots. Nixon wasn't there at the time. The bubble only kept out rain, not bullets. Nixon didn't taunt him about it.

Then there are the railroad bums caught behind the grassy knoll. Their arrest records disappeared, but there is one great photograph of them. One looks just like E. Howard Hunt. Another like Frank Sturgis. Both of them Nixon men. The third one looks like Woody Harrelson's dad, a known shooter.

The arrest records are public documents, their names are known. They were three bums.

If you can explain away 20-50 gross conflicts in the official version, then anyone with an IQ greater than his belt size will find 200 more conflicts.

It is a basic truth in any complex case that you can find all kinds of open questions or things that don't make sense by themselves. Look at the OJ case. Does that mean he didn't really do it? No. A question is just a question, it isn't evidence. The evidence says Oswald did it. It says that convincingly. The ability to ask questions doesn't subtract it. The fact is, many of the questions are false questions, as are many of the "facts" being offered in this thread right now. This has happened because for 38 years we've had people writing nonsensical books, repeating false assertions and making up stories. Nobody can be blamed for thinking there is something to them, but if you do the work to find out you'll find there isn't.

83 posted on 11/27/2001 9:40:57 PM PST by mlo
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To: GreatOne
Mark Lane is a communist. He was funded by the KGB.
84 posted on 11/27/2001 9:41:37 PM PST by mlo
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To: VaBthang4
If anyone has seen the Zapruder film at real speed you can clearly see that the Secret Serviceman driving Kennedy's car noticably slowed the vehicle just before the head shot [this is no hype, check it out yourself]...once the head shot struck home the car speeds up considerably and away.

Although you can argue the driver shouldn't have reacted the way he did, you can't pin the whole case on this one thing. There is a ton of evidence. The evidence tells us what happened.

85 posted on 11/27/2001 9:46:55 PM PST by mlo
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To: mlo
I didnt say I pin the whole thing on this...

I said: "Until someone can explain the practical motive behind slowing down a vehicle in the middle of an assasination attempt I will always think something was definately afoot that day in Dealy Plaza."

86 posted on 11/27/2001 9:56:42 PM PST by VaBthang4
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To: VaBthang4
There is not much difference in your distinction.
87 posted on 11/27/2001 10:05:12 PM PST by mlo
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To: mlo
On the contrary...

I understand that there are two distinct positions on alot of the circumstances.

This is the one (Limo speed) that I havent heard explained...and until I do, to me it is cause for question and considering that on its face it would appear completely improper to the point of incompetence (something that does not exist in the Presidential detail for the President of the United States) gives me cause for concern...enough to say something was fishy.

And until that is addressed I cannot say that this whole scenario has just been manufactured by theorists.

88 posted on 11/27/2001 10:24:50 PM PST by VaBthang4
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To: GreatOne
You live by the hormones, you die by the hormones.
89 posted on 11/27/2001 11:07:02 PM PST by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington
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To: xp38
Sorry, if the only book you have read on the subject is Posner's then you are not qualified to make such a judgement. Posner has been debunked by quite a few people who know a lot more than he.
90 posted on 11/28/2001 12:12:16 AM PST by Swordmaker
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
incidentally, the x-rays of Connely's thigh and wrist show more lead residue than can be accounted for by the magic bullet...
91 posted on 11/28/2001 12:16:43 AM PST by Swordmaker
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To: Clovis_Skeptic
errrr...sorry.

SR

92 posted on 11/28/2001 1:35:43 AM PST by sit-rep
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To: GreatOne
bump
93 posted on 11/28/2001 1:59:40 AM PST by Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi
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To: Swordmaker
This topic long ago drifted into the realm of religious belief. Like any heretic Posner of course would be attacked by the conspiracy buffs. If what he wrote is a pack of lies and errors I am sorry to have fallen for his mendacious scribblings. I am just glad for the moment I am not in the Oliver Stone camp.
94 posted on 11/28/2001 3:25:12 AM PST by xp38
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To: xp38
...or Bertrand Russell for that matter.
95 posted on 11/28/2001 3:27:14 AM PST by xp38
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To: mlo
I can't refute the material I have read with your assertions. It is true that the best way to deal with it is to have the actual documents.

One eyewitness was asked why she didn't come forward for years. She said, "I didn't want to die of suicide, a shotgun blast to the back of my head, if you know what I mean."

Oswald's relationship with the intelligence community is interesting by itself. Kennedy's relationship to the Mob is now well known. So is his father's working with the Mob. Then there is the Mob girlfriend - Exner. And the Mob boss who died as this was coming out. Like I said, too many conflicts in the official story.

96 posted on 11/28/2001 4:11:03 AM PST by Chemnitz
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To: alien2
Under what rock have you been hiding? Many books are out that prove beyond doubt that the US knew the facts about Pearl Harbor from the time the Japanese fleet left. We were also warned by various sources, including a spy nicknamed Tricycle.

Kimmel and Short are no longer being blamed. I think they are exonerated now. FDR knew about Pearl and let those men die without warning them. It was a convenient way for FDR to unite the nation and get us into war. Like I said, that was the first time.

I don't think people accept the FBI as a legitimate investigative agency anymore.

97 posted on 11/28/2001 4:18:33 AM PST by Chemnitz
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To: GreatOne
Don't sweat it. My question was more or less rhetorical.
It has been 38 years and I would think if there was an answer, we'd have heard an answer by now.
98 posted on 11/28/2001 5:01:39 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: GreatOne
On A&E they show the documentary: "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" and it is quite revelatory along this line, especizlly the picture of the gunman behind the fence on the grassy knoll. In my opinion those who participated in the coverup of the real killers are as guilty as those who planned it.
99 posted on 11/28/2001 5:06:11 AM PST by Woodkirk
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To: mlo
Thanks for the input. I thought it might be. On its face it would seem to be an impossibly huge piece of evidence to miss.
100 posted on 11/28/2001 5:06:43 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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