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Suspected Israeli Spies Held by U.S.
Fox News ^ | December 12, 2001 | Carl Cameron

Posted on 12/12/2001 9:49:48 AM PST by mmmmmmmm....... donuts

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:31:50 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

WASHINGTON Some 60 Israelis, who federal investigators have said are part of a long-running effort to spy on American government officials, are among the hundreds of foreigners detained since the Sept. 11 terror attacks, Fox News has learned.

The Israelis, a handful of whom are described as active Israeli military or intelligence operatives, have been detained on immigration charges or under the new Patriot Anti-Terrorism Law. Federal investigators said some of them failed polygraph questions inquiring about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
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Here's the FOX thing talked about earlier. Anyway, I don't doubt that the Israelis were indeed in the U.S. keeping tabs on the Arab groups. I do, however, doubt that the Israeli intelligence had SPECIFIC knowledge about 9-11 and withheld it. Cameron really stretches to make that assertion, his facts just don't support it, not at this point anyway.

More likely--as has been reported several times--Israel told the U.S. in general terms that something was about to go down, and the U.S. agencies probably thought, 'Ugh, the Israelis complaining about the Arabs, again', and waved it away.

1 posted on 12/12/2001 9:49:48 AM PST by mmmmmmmm....... donuts
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
While I do not doubt that there are Israelis in America who are spying on our government (Pollard anyone?) and on Arab groups in the US, I do doubt they had specific knowledge of 9/11.

I assume their activities are more geared toward discovering attacks on Israel than on the US.

2 posted on 12/12/2001 9:55:04 AM PST by wideawake
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
, I don't doubt that the Israelis were indeed in the U.S. keeping tabs on the Arab groups. I do, however, doubt that the Israeli intelligence had SPECIFIC knowledge about 9-11 and withheld it.

Cameron said that they were eves dropping on the same terrorists for months before the attack. Don't tell me they didn't know!

3 posted on 12/12/2001 9:55:14 AM PST by Bommer
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
"...a close and trusted ally." It's about time this has been reported.
4 posted on 12/12/2001 10:02:52 AM PST by dlt
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To: Bommer
My wife saw a "Puzzlecar" and "Zoomcopter" guy at the local mall soon after 9/11. She thought the guy was creepy and suspicious--I guess she was right.
5 posted on 12/12/2001 10:05:18 AM PST by financeprof
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To: wideawake
I would wager that if this is factual the Israelis were keeping an eye on Arab groups here that are the same groups our FBI has been tracking, but for reasons of being interested in Israeli matters. I suspect that if they had prior knowledge of September 11 they would have revealed it. I read that the Israeli government shared such information, albeit in a general way, with the US government. With so many Jewish folks in New York (who could get hurt) I would imagine this group would have gone to the authorities.
6 posted on 12/12/2001 10:06:07 AM PST by scratchgolfer
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To: Bommer
Cameron said that they were eves dropping on the same terrorists for months before the attack.

Really?...that's pretty explosive news.

If the Israeli government knew (via these spies) of the attacks prior to 9-11 and didn't give us a warning...does that make them quasi-accomplices?
7 posted on 12/12/2001 10:08:35 AM PST by wheezer
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To: wideawake
But Fox News has learned that one group of Israelis spotted in North Carolina.....

Didn't the Justice Department deny this story? I believe Ashcroft said it was untrue, that there were no Israelis spotted in No. Carolina. And then is was reported the 'Israelis' were Arabs. Odd.

8 posted on 12/12/2001 10:15:48 AM PST by veronica
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
Everybody spies on everybody. As long as Israel, or any other country, spies on us solely for their own protection, then I can't get too upset about it. Going beyond that would upset me greatly.

We undoubtedly spy on Israel as well. In the same manner, I would bet that England, France, Germany, Canada, etc. all have spies here, as we undoubtedly do in their nations. We live in the real world, not some fairy tale. If this is a surprise to anyone, I would just say "grow up."

Given how our nation has been used as a haven for terrorists of all stripes, undoubtedly including those who have or would like to hit Israel, can Israel be blamed for trying to keep tabs on these people? Evidently, our FBI and CIA are incapable of taking such threats seriously, or doing anything of real consequence to stop these animals until we lose nearly 4,000 people.

9 posted on 12/12/2001 10:16:30 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: veronica
That was never made clear. I presume that the NC guys were Palestinians with Israeli passports.
10 posted on 12/12/2001 10:18:55 AM PST by wideawake
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
It's this story that's going to get the Arabs and Muslems masturbating, and gasping, "I told you so...."
11 posted on 12/12/2001 10:19:33 AM PST by USMMA_83
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To: wideawake
Exactly. Ashcroft did deny it, though. Was posted here a bunch of times.
12 posted on 12/12/2001 10:19:52 AM PST by veronica
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
WTF? I thought Israel was supposed to be our friends? And what about the USS Liberty?
13 posted on 12/12/2001 10:21:05 AM PST by NC_Libertarian
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
I'd be a lot more sympathetic for Israel if they did a lot less spying on the U.S.
14 posted on 12/12/2001 10:21:07 AM PST by curmudgeonII
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To: Ancesthntr
But the problem here is that Israel sells our national secrets to third parties (i.e., Russia, China). If this isn't enough, at $3-5 billion in foreign aid per year, US taxpayers foot the bill for this spying.

I say that Congress needs to put US interests first -- for a change. If the US would pursue its legitimate interests in the Middle East, my guess is that the chances for real peace in the Middle East would increase immeasureably.

15 posted on 12/12/2001 10:22:08 AM PST by dlt
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To: NC_Libertarian
I thought Israel was supposed to be our friends? And what about the USS Liberty?

It was just a friendly fire.

16 posted on 12/12/2001 10:23:26 AM PST by A. Pole
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To: NC_Libertarian
And what about the USS Liberty?

A long forgotten and forgiven event which the Congress has just refused to look into - again.

17 posted on 12/12/2001 10:25:29 AM PST by veronica
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To: Ancesthntr
... said some of them failed polygraph questions inquiring about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.

Numerous classified documents obtained by Fox News indicate that even prior to Sept. 11, as many as 140 other Israelis had been detained or arrested in a secretive and sprawling investigation into suspected espionage by Israelis in the United States.

Investigators from numerous government agencies are part of a working group that has been compiling evidence in the case since the mid-1990s. These documents detail hundreds of incidents in cities and towns across the country that investigators say quote "may well be an organized intelligence-gathering activity."

Documents say they "targeted" and penetrated military bases, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Federal Bureau of Investigations, dozens of government facilities and even secret offices and unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel.

______________________________

I couldn't agree with you more. I have absolutely no problem with "England, France, Germany, Canada, etc." engaging in suspected espionage, organized intelligence-gathering activity, and targeting and penetrating military bases, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Federal Bureau of Investigations, dozens of government facilities and even secret offices and unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel.

Just the ways of the world, I guess.

18 posted on 12/12/2001 10:28:11 AM PST by jmp702
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To: Ancesthntr
Quit being logical and rational! (-;
19 posted on 12/12/2001 10:35:56 AM PST by veronica
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To: wheezer
Yes, it makes them accomplices. Once we finish up in Afghanistan, we should nuke Israel next.
20 posted on 12/12/2001 10:48:08 AM PST by aspide
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To: Ancesthntr
I liked your comments.

Does selling trinkets in malls sound like a very sophisticated way to engage in espionage against the US government? What could they have uncovered of a top secret nature trying to sell art and taking photographs?

It does sound like they were attempting to infiltrate Arab terrorist groups and spy on them for their own protection. Afterall, much of Hamas's money was raised here in the USA.

21 posted on 12/12/2001 10:54:25 AM PST by vrwc54
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To: aspide
Yes, it makes them accomplices. Once we finish up in Afghanistan, we should nuke Israel next.

Ah, nobody has proved any of this...and if you think the US will ever anything but a close ally of Israel no matter how this plays out you are smoking some bad stuff.

22 posted on 12/12/2001 11:03:10 AM PST by veronica
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To: vrwc54
What could they have uncovered of a top secret nature trying to sell art and taking photographs?

From the article:

Investigators are focusing part of their efforts on Israelis who said they are art students from the University of Jerusalem or Bezalel Academy and repeatedly made contact with U.S. government personnel by saying they wanted to sell cheap art or handiwork.

Documents say they "targeted" and penetrated military bases, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Federal Bureau of Investigations, dozens of government facilities and even secret offices and unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel.

Hmmmmm... They sold some "starving artist" paintings to military bases, gov't offices, and/or the homes of gov't personnel. Check the paintings or their picture frames for bugging devices!

Depending on which malls they were selling the Puzzlecar & Zoomcopter in, maybe those should be checked for bugging devices as well. (IOW, are the malls close to military bases/CIA HQ, etc.?)

23 posted on 12/12/2001 11:09:08 AM PST by jennyp
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To: veronica
"And what about the USS Liberty?"

"A long forgotten and forgiven event which the Congress has just refused to look into - again."

Hadn't heard that the surviving crew members are now all in congress. But if you say so . . . . . . .

24 posted on 12/12/2001 11:10:08 AM PST by Asmodeus
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To: Asmodeus
One USS Liberty surviving member has a message on his website lamenting the hijacking of the event by Neo-Nazis and anti-Semites with an unsavory agenda.
25 posted on 12/12/2001 11:13:56 AM PST by veronica
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To: wideawake
Maybe they have the REAL story on the Clintons, wonder if they will tell it.
26 posted on 12/12/2001 11:17:10 AM PST by gulfcoast6
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To: veronica
A long forgotten and forgiven event which the Congress has just refused to look into - again.

What right does Congress have to "forgive" a foreign country for deliberating bombing and killing our servicemen?

27 posted on 12/12/2001 11:23:24 AM PST by dlt
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
investigators suspect that they may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance and not shared it.

Okay, even if this is true -- sure, Israel could benefit from a worldwide uprising against Islam -- since when is the only world superpower unable to gather its own intelligence? (Oh, silly me. We're too busy funding free prescriptions and domestic partner benefits to be bothered with intelligence gathering.)

A Defense Intelligence report said Israel has a "voracious appetite for information."

As long as the US is talking seriously about giving a homeland to the so-called Palestinians, Israel would be stupid to think the US-Israel friendship is etched in stone.

28 posted on 12/12/2001 11:33:00 AM PST by newgeezer
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To: newgeezer
As long as the US is talking seriously about giving a homeland to the so-called Palestinians...

Cheney basically said last week the P-state thing was a dead issue for now.

29 posted on 12/12/2001 11:34:53 AM PST by veronica
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To: veronica
Cheney basically said last week the P-state thing was a dead issue for now.

Fine. It's the "for now" part that's troubling.

30 posted on 12/12/2001 11:37:29 AM PST by newgeezer
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
suspect

This is American intelligence covering their butts. The implication is: how do you expect that we would have known about the plot when Israel, with such good sources, didn't.

Israel also wasn't able to prevent today's attack in Israel...or last weeks...

31 posted on 12/12/2001 11:38:18 AM PST by Sabramerican
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To: dlt
So I guess Germany and Japan and Mexico and Vietnam et al should continuously hold a grudge against us?
32 posted on 12/12/2001 11:40:16 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: veronica
Allies don't withold that kind of information from their allies. Israel is no ally of the US. A parasite, yes. An ally, no. If this report is true, nuke 'em.
33 posted on 12/12/2001 12:00:16 PM PST by aspide
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To: monkeyshine
So I guess Germany and Japan and Mexico and Vietnam et al should continuously hold a grudge against us?

I am not familiar with any instances when we deliberately bombed these countries' ships when we were not at war with them and they were not at war with us. But, this could be my own lack of knowledge. If you don't mind, please fill me in. Thanks.

34 posted on 12/12/2001 12:09:15 PM PST by dlt
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To: aspide
A TREASURED ally in the words of Bush and Powell. (-;
35 posted on 12/12/2001 12:12:10 PM PST by veronica
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To: wheezer
The report says that the Isralis were posing as students selling arts(paintings)? I had an Israeli come in to my door to sell me some paintings a few months ago?
36 posted on 12/12/2001 12:18:46 PM PST by philosofy123
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To: USMMA_83
You have to face Meka first if you are going to that!!!
37 posted on 12/12/2001 12:20:48 PM PST by philosofy123
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To: newgeezer
Imagine Israel being told by the world not to over react to these minor suicide bombings but then see how the world ralley's behind the USA. They have lost 20,000 people to the terrorist scum right next to them and have plenty of fire power to eliminate all of them.
38 posted on 12/12/2001 12:26:30 PM PST by biblewonk
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To: dlt
Israel, and Clinton sold space secrets to China. Now they are competing with us in that always American business segment.
39 posted on 12/12/2001 12:29:34 PM PST by philosofy123
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
An Israeli Embassy spokesman offered categorical denials, and said any suggestion of Israelis spying on or in the United States is simply not true.

This is a stupid lie. We know that they spy, they know that they spy, and everyone here at FR knows that they spy.

40 posted on 12/12/2001 12:39:32 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: All
America first...

America first...

America first...

F everybody else...

No more foreign aid...

America first...

America first...

America first...

41 posted on 12/12/2001 12:45:26 PM PST by Davidb72
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: newgeezer
Israel would be stupid to think the US-Israel friendship is etched in stone.

Might we also be stupid to think the same?

43 posted on 12/12/2001 2:42:26 PM PST by DakotaKid
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
From the article:
"But Fox News has learned that one group of Israelis spotted in North Carolina recently is suspected of keeping an apartment in California to spy on a group of Arabs who the U.S. authorities are investigating for links to terrorism."

Seems they're spying on our enemies, not on us.
44 posted on 12/12/2001 2:57:12 PM PST by Michael2001
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To: veronica
And whatever became of the May 2000 report, long overlooked:

InsightMag.com - FBI Probes [Israeli] Espionage at Clinton White House

45 posted on 12/12/2001 3:02:40 PM PST by flamefront
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: Ancesthntr
We undoubtedly spy on Israel as well.

Say it ain't so! </sarcasm>

I HOPE we're spying on any and every country, we've got too much to lose.

47 posted on 12/12/2001 8:26:44 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: mmmmmmmm....... donuts
but investigators suspect that they may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance and not shared it.

This smells of serious "covering your assets" case. The massive intelligence failure has occured because American special services did not do their job. At least Israelis have tried to do something. Now they are going to be accused of not doing enough? Whose job is it to protect Americans? Israel's???

48 posted on 12/12/2001 8:38:57 PM PST by eclectic
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To: Davidb72
ABSOLUTELY "America First". IMO there is NO such a thing as a "dual allegiance".

When was the last time we heard about "English" spies or even "French" spies?

49 posted on 12/12/2001 8:39:44 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: veronica
A TREASURED ally in the words of Bush and Powell. (-;

I imagine they'd have to say that about Israel, if they want to hold on to their political offices for long, given the power AIPAC has.

50 posted on 12/12/2001 8:49:54 PM PST by Sith Lord
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