PayPal Problems

Planet Walley ^ | 11/28/00 | Wally Glen

[struwwelpeter]

More than a few months ago, I discovered a pretty decent service. It was called PayPal and really, it rocked. It allowed me to pay for auction items, send money to friends for camping trips, and allowed me to buy some merchandise from people like Doug Stanhope. I liked it so much I created a page to refer people. That referral page lined my pockets with $150.00 in referrals.

Then on November 17, something went wonky.

I received an e-mail from PayPal that said:

From: service@paypal.com
Received: wally Glenn
Date: 17 Nov 2000 21:08:15
To: wally@gwally.com
Reply-To: appeal@paypal.com
Subject: Restricted PayPal Account

Dear Wally Glenn,

Your account was restricted for administrative purposes. In order to lift this restriction, you must email the PayPal Account Review Department at appeal@paypal.com.

Thank you,

PayPal Account Review Department

I thought it was strange, but since I had a problem with PayPal, I figured it could have been associated with that. I had sent a double payment to a merchant on an accident. PayPal has a glitch of sorts. If you send a payment and the page just hangs there and you hit the back button, you can end up sending two payments.

So I sent a message to appeal my account restriction to see what happened.

I didn't receive a response.

So I sent another message thinking the other one got lost. It received absolutely response. SO I sent another message, then another and finally I sent about 10 messages. Not one d--- message got a response!

Finally, I was fed up. If PayPal was not going to respond, then I would play a little hard ball. I noticed that PayPal insured all accounts through Travelers Insurance. I also noticed that Travelers had a form to report fraud along with some ominous language about how important fraud was to travelers. So I decided to fill out their Fraud Report form and report PayPal as a company engaging in possible fraudulent activity.

I got a response.

Travelers Fraud department responded twice. They explained that they did not feel that PayPal was involved in fraudulent activities and that I should contact their customer service department right away and they should be happy to clear up the matter.

I didn't have to contact them. The very next day I got an e-mail message from PayPal:

Dear Wally,

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Your account has been unrestricted.

If you have further questions, please reply to this email and I will be glad to help you.

Sincerely,
Veronica
PayPal Customer Service

===========================================
We at PayPal would like to know how well this response accommodated your request. Click on the appropriate link to send your feedback. We welcome your comments.

If this email exceeded your expectations: mailto:exceededexpectations@paypal.com

If this email met your expectations: mailto:metexpectations@paypal.com

If this email did not meet your expectations: mailto:didnotmeetexpectations@paypal.com

Thank you for your feedback.
===========================================

They didn't have a response for "We sucked a--", so I replied to didnotmeetexpectations@paypal.com. I let them have it.

Oh man, did I let them have it!

I loaded up both barrels of my literary shotgun and let PayPal have both barrels directly in the face. That e-mail message was so vile, so dripping with real anger that I am refraining from sharing it here. I pointed out flaws to their system, I pointed out how they would be history once Visa glommed onto their micromarket and went after them. I pointed out that if I am typical of the way they handled customer problems, people would gladly leave them in droves for anything else.

I actually got a response.

I was happy to see a response. I figured it might have been an apology, an explanation, maybe even a $100.00 to compensate me for my troubles. I did not expect the following e-mail message sent the very next day:

Dear Wally Glenn,

Your account was restricted for administrative purposes. In order to lift this restriction, you must email the PayPal Account Review Department at appeal@paypal.com.

Thank you,

PayPal Account Review Department

I couldn't believe it!

Talk about being vindictive! I mean jeez, close a guys account just because he spouted the truth? Their service sucked and I wanted to let them know that and I wanted to know why I was ignored. So I sent this unhappy little message:

YOU JUST LIFTED THE M----------G THING YESTERDAY!!!

WHAT THE F-- IS GOING ON???

A few days later I got this lovely and I would guess final message from PayPal:

Dear Mr. Glenn,

In order to protect all PayPal customers and the quality of our service, we take violations of our Terms of Use very seriously.

Following an investigation, this account has been permanently closed due to violations of our Terms of Use. This decision may not be appealed.

Violations of our Terms of Use that could constitute criminal conduct may be reported to law enforcement authorities.

Sincerely,
PayPal Account Review Department

So there you have it. My account is dead. No explanation, no reasons, no reversing the decision.

I pulled one last stunt to see if I could at least get a response. I sent an e-mail message to every e-mail address listed on the site and to every executive listed. I didn't have any of their e-mail addresses, so I sent it to every combination of letters I could think of that would be valid, then I Bcc'd the whole shebang to PayPal so I wouldn't have to worry about them seeing what I was doing. If I get a reply, I will post it here.

But you know d--- well I never will get a reply.

Contents

© Copyright 1995-2001 by Wally Glenn. All rights reserved unless otherwise noted.

[struwwelpeter]

I've fallen for PayPal myself.

If you are a PayPal customer, check out:

PayPal Sucks.com
PayPal Warning.com
Slashdot

[Tennessee_Bob]

Well, I don't blame them for restricting your account the second time, and then closing out your account. You went and told them the truth about how you felt. You really hurt their feelings...just imagine how that poor customer service rep felt when he (or she) got your e-mail where you told them exactly how you felt. You should show more consideration for companies and corporations, especially those where you're giving them money in exchange for a service. Shame on you..shame shame shame!!!!!

and in case it didn't come through ok - /sarcasm

[LurkedLongEnough]

Five-page detailed rants = ulterior motive.

[RobRoy]

>>Five-page detailed rants = ulterior motive.<<

You read my mind. However, it could be true. What puzzles me is that there are missing steps. The chain of events doesn't make sense. He seemed to get angry too fast and spout the anger to freely, at least as he tells it.

Maybe he's just leaving stuff out to shorten the post, I dunno...

[Tennessee_Bob]

No, he's telling the truth. Apparently, PayPal service has been going downhill for a while. There's quite a few dis-satisfied customers out there. They're difficult to get in touch with...you can e-mail them, but, as he's noted, they take their sweet time in getting back in touch with you. If you want to call them up...well, that's another story. The head of PayPal said in an interview that they have intentionally made it difficult to get in touch with them by voice, preferring to rely on e-mail. Whether that's because it makes it easier for them to ignore you as a customer or not, who can say?

[OnSafariInBlueZone]

any luck calling them with the # i emailed?

[OnSafariInBlueZone]

PayPal P.O. Box 45950 Omaha, NE 68145

Toll Free Phone: (888) 221-1161

[tsomer]

Nobody tells the truth.

Like the other day during my 6-month dental exam the hygienist congratulated me for my obviously well-tended mouth before jack-hammering enough plaque to fill a bushel basket. After that the dentist came in and told me I needed a cap on one of my four remaining teeth. They congratulated me again. Cost me $200, the cap's another $800.

Always hedge criticisms with cheery, up-beat encouragement; insert your critique between two compliments and garnish with a smile.

If you don't do this you're liable to get a knife in your back.

[dpwiener]

They're difficult to get in touch with...you can e-mail them, but, as he's noted, they take their sweet time in getting back in touch with you. If you want to call them up...well, that's another story. The head of PayPal said in an interview that they have intentionally made it difficult to get in touch with them by voice, preferring to rely on e-mail.

I fully understand why they prefer email to phone calls; there's a huge difference in customer service costs, and naturally PayPal wants to minimize its expenses to maximize its profit. It's a simple financial calculation: even if it loses them a few frustrated customers, the overall cost savings from relying almost exclusively on email will more than make up the difference. As a business, they have the right to make that determination. Of course the flip side is that they'd better have a reasonably good system of email service response, else they'll lose a lot of customers and the trade-off will no longer make financial sense.

Regarding the specifics of Wally Glen's problem, I think his admittedly-vile attack on PayPal was what precipitated the closing of his account. So I have only limited sympathy for him even if his description of events is entirely accurate.

We have had problems with PayPal in the past, and were having difficulty resolving those problems. So eventually I pulled out my secret weapon, which I will now share with everyone here. (Note that this technique is applicable to most Internet-based companies. Just don't overdo it, or it will lose its effectiveness.)

I emailed every member of the company's management and Board of Directors with a description of my problem and the lack of resolution by the customer service people, along with copies of all my previous email correspondence. Every company's web page contains a list top management, usually under "about us" or "executive team" or "investor relations" (PayPal's can be found here). And although they don't usually list their email addresses, those may be inferred from the addresses of other employees. A good place to look is under "press releases", at least some of which will list the email address of the company's public relations contact. (In PayPal's case it is the initial of the person's first name concatenated with his or her last name, @paypal.com. For example, CEO Peter Theil would presumably be pthiel@paypal.com.)

In our case, the previously-unresolved problem was solved in a matter of hours by some very cooperative customer service reps who even telephoned us to make sure it was taken care of.

[dpwiener]

As an addendum to my previous post, the customer service department was CC'ed on my email complaint to the company execs. The service reps would not necessarily know whether my email had gotten through to some or all of the execs, by they knew that it had been sent to all those execs. And they preferred to fix the problem fast themselves, rather than to take the risk of heat coming down from on high.

[isthisnickcool]

Wally appears to be a juvenile. Look at the language he used. Childish. Like his web page.

Two kinds of people, the first tries to work things out like a grownup and the second is looking to litigate from the get-go. Wally does not seem like the first type.

[Snowy]

I will never use paypal again. I bought something online (computer part) and the company stated that they accepted credit cards. What they actually did was make a paypal account for me using my credit card. I didn't know this until I wanted to buy another part a week later from the same outfit, but when I did try to pay with paypal, it said that I already had an account using that credit card(!). After much hassle on the phone, we finally figured out what was happening. The company in question just opened another paypal account using another email address.

[ladyjane]

The reason why the company kept opening paypal accounts in your name is because they get a $5.00 credit for every account they sign up.

I just signed up with PayPal two days ago. I am very sorry I did. They are not honest. They don't respond to emails. I think they are in big financial trouble and have been freezing peoples bank accounts.

[monkeyshine]

I like paypal. I do some biz with them. never had a real problem. Once a customer complained, they froze a payment, I proved that she accepted the order by UPS, and they released the funds quickly -- easier than a CC company would!

Some of their policies are bizarre but I can work with them no problem. Never had a problem contacting paypal, and they are usually quick with a form letter reply (they likely have a system that scans email for certain words, and then automatically sends a reply based on what they think the subject matter is).

[hattend]

I love PayPal. I have had 40 purchases without a hitch.

[struwwelpeter]

Well, I'm not Wally Glenn, but I sure felt like sending the emails he sent.

What really is strange, is now I'm this little obedient meek customer who is jumping through all the hoops and treating all the customer help reps with respect - and even a little awe. Of course, it's not getting me anywhere. $2513, according the the rep, "will just sit there" until my bank changes its policies and shares private information with outside parties.

I have bought exactly 1 item three months ago, and sold nothing. Yet I'm at fault, send my faxes at a dollar a page (I'm up to twelve now) and console myself with the occasional "request denied" email

PayPal users, beware.

[Rightone]

I use PayPal all the time for all sorts of online receivable and payment uses. I love them. The one time I communicated with them, they answered within 48 hours, which I consider quite reasonable.

Their service sure makes purchasing things on auction sites such as eBay great, too.

[AMERIKA]

Have used Paypal for a long time, no problems.

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

They took my money today. They sent me two lovely emails to tell me that I won't be receiving my money because even though my ISP and Paypal recognizes email address, that since two people put a capital letter in my email address, I can't claim my money. It's gone, all gone.

[struwwelpeter]

Have used Paypal for a long time, no problems...yet

Check Hillary's response.