Andrew Sullivan: Spreading the greater lie about Israel

The Sunday Times ^ | December 23, 2001 | Andrew Sullivan

[cookcounty]

"If Jews from Russia have a "right of return" to a country their ancestors haven't lived in for many centuries but Muslims who lived on that land in their own lifetimes can't live there any more, thats a theocracy. I mean, what other justification is there but religion? Don't voting rights differ, too?".

1."right of return" is not by any means unique to Israel. This same concept has been in play in nations as varied as Pakistan, Ireland and China.

1.(b) The Orthodox in Israel are complaining about Russian immigrants. Why? because 70% are Jewish only by virtue of their DNA.

2.(a)There aren't many muslims "who lived on that land in their own lifetimes" who want to go back.

2. (b)Most of the muslims abandoned their homes of their own choice, wanting to be out of the way while the Arab armies fulfilled their stated aim of killing the Jews.

3. As to voting rights, The Arabs have full voting rights in Israel, which is much more than Jews are allowed in any part of the Arab world.

[LoisHunt]

Well, then whats all the fighting about?

Gee, sounds like no-problemo the way you put it.

[LoisHunt]

Put it before the electorate. See what they do to pols who would sacrifice their lives for no reason anyone can rationally explain.

All of your browbeating and namecalling is really subterfuge.

[cookcounty]

"BTW, Israel is the only country exempt from the requirement that it must spend its money here in the US. It is allowed to spend its U.S. gift money with its own defense contractors within Israel itself."

This isn't correct. For example, when it comes to civilian trucks, you won't find a US-built truck anywhere on Israeli roads, but when it comes to military trucks it's strictly US-built ONLY, because that what the agreement requires. Yes there is allowance for some Israeli-built systems (like the Arrow), but in those cases, the US gets the engineering and R&D done for free. Like I said, "MOST" of the money must be spent on US manufactured products.

[Iconoclast2]

I am glad to see that Mr. Sullivan is right on the details. Thanks for the picture.

[ladyinred]

You may be right about the reason so many believe that the Jewish people were the ones responsible for the WTC attacks. I just think that the fact that the Muslims hate the Jews so much that they are willing to accept anything their leaders tell them.
I would be inclined to believe it was propaganda by Arafat and others to deflect the blame on their hated enemy instead of the true terrorists and to inflame the passions of Islam.

Well written article by Sullivan. He says it like it is most of the time. Arafat does not want peace, he wants Israel to cease to exist...period.

[Valin]

then Israel would be forced to reach some true accommodation with the Palestinians.

And just how do you "reach some true accommodation" with people who want to kill you? For 50 years Israel has tried again and again to make peace with the arab world. What do they have to show for it, besides spending a large part of their GNP on defence.
The Palestinians say they want the IDF out of the PA areas great maybe they might start bt NOT blowing up pizza parlors and bus stops in Israel?
The Palestinians are being played for suckers by the rest of the arab world. They want them to keep fighting for two reasons, 1 it allows them to point outside their countries for an enemy and so stay in power, 2 they realise that if Israel and the Palestinians ever made peace the two of them would be ruling the arab world within 5 years.

[Michael2001]

Well if you're a Christian that's one reason; and if you're not, wouldn't you like to be on the side of the right anyway?

[Michael2001]

"Good point but as of September 11th, I became concerned that I could get killed for Israel or one of my loved ones might be killed for Israel."

If you watched Hannity and Colmes, they did a segment on what we didn't get from the government translation of the Bin Laden tape. On the tape Bin Laden says we must kill the Infidles until they submit to Allah. Looks like we in the US are in trouble no matter our policy on Israel (or Iraq or Saudi Arabi for that matter).

[dennisw]

Keep posting that one. I sure will and I'm also saving it to my hard drive ..... To be hosted elsewhere when yahoo takes it down.

[dennisw]

I see Arabs giving Nazi salutes.

Uniformed children stand in units named after guerrillas killed fighting Israel as part of Hizbollah's Jerusalem day rally December 14, 2001 in Beirut. The head of Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group urged Palestinians to launch more suicide bomb attacks on Israelis and defy U.S.-led demands to crack down on 'terrorist' militant groups. (Sharif Karim/Reuters)

[dennisw]

Once they see it like that, they are not going to put up with getting blown up over a land dispute half way around the world when we have millions of empty acres in the US.

__________________

Don't blame Israel for your perceived problems. Blame Islam. They are at war with the world ....... not just the Jews and they hate the USA with a passion.

[dennisw]

Sorry bud. If you want to call someone nazi in this tussle you need look no further than the Palestinians and their Arab backers. They are the ones who want to destroy Israel while Israel could never destroy the Arab world. They are the ones who backed Adolph Hitler in WW2.

[Don Joe]

"What is it about the spirit of Christmas that brings all these Jew-haters crawling out of the woodwork?"

They've been building in both volume and venom for the past month or so. I suspect a fly on the wall in some location or other could have some very interesting notes to report. Coordinated attacks don't "just happen".

[Don Joe]

The "sheer volume" technique of thread-hijackery is about the lowest form there is. It betrays a total lack of ability to "debate" other than by vainly attempting to shout down the opposition.

Then again, what else should we expect from the goose-step contingent?

[College Repub]

I concur. My shift in the global Zionist conspiracy to control the Free Republic is coming to a close in 5 minutes. If Veronica isn't here in time, please relieve me Don Joe. Thanks!

[Catspaw]

Then again, what else should we expect from the goose-step contingent?

It's much easier to call them The Bund.

[Don Joe]

"I concur. My shift in the global Zionist conspiracy to control the Free Republic is coming to a close in 5 minutes. If Veronica isn't here in time, please relieve me Don Joe. Thanks!"

Sorry, the Chief Jew apparently put us on the same shift -- I went to sleep shortly after posting that.

Seriously, though, the attacks seem to be coming in greater frequency and volume, and IMO are coordinated, probably at (or "just off of") one of the "whiter-than-thou" sturm und drang websites. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, etc.

[Don Joe]

"It's much easier to call them The Bund."

Yeah, but they'd take it as a compliment.