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Addicted to the Drug War
Ludwig von Mises Institute ^ | December 28, 2001 | Ilana Mercer

Posted on 12/30/2001 1:25:13 AM PST by NoCurrentFreeperByThatName

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To: jwalsh07
In your world, you would force me and others like me to live under the tyranny of a small minority who think that drug use is an unalienable not legislatable by the citizens of states. So who's the statist here?

I, for one, believe that it's the FEDERAL component of the drug war that is the most anti-freedom and statist. Take, for example, the recent busts of the CA medi-pot clinics by the DEA. They were operating LAWFULLY under CA law, but Asa Hutchinson and his fedgov jackboots decided that they knew better what was good for the citizens of California and shut down the clinics, confiscating plants, supplies, and records. And this just 6 weeks after the WTC attacks, when one would think that law enforcement's priorities have changed.

A much better approach would be to put the DEA out of business and allow states to regulate marijuana and other drugs, just like they regulate alcohol. Some states (or even localities, like "dry counties" in states like Kentucky) would have prohibitory laws; others would be more lenient. This would be a Constitutional approach, and one that would work much better than the unconstitutional War on Drugs.

501 posted on 12/31/2001 6:34:43 AM PST by bassmaner
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To: Roscoe
OK, so by point two in the lame commerce clause justification in the CSA, the because snotrag I just blew my nose in was imported, you can write federal laws prohibiting me from flicking boogers at Drug Warriors? Right?
502 posted on 12/31/2001 6:42:24 AM PST by eno_
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To: Roscoe;zon;donh
Libertarians are as hungry as liberals for judicial legislation.

Wrong. Libertarians question the very basis upon which such unconstitutional (prohibitory) legislation (re. your post #499 and elsewhere) was enacted. If the Constitution was followed in all judicial decisions, the CSA would be rendered unconstitutional and voided, and the finding of the administrative judge in this case would be rendered academic.

But the politics of the drug war trumps common sense. And it is the politics of EMOTION rather than REASON, just like the politics of the Left.

503 posted on 12/31/2001 6:43:06 AM PST by bassmaner
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To: bassmaner
Excellent post. The fact is, it isn't about drugs. It's about the feds sticking their noses where the don't belong. I grew up in a dry town. It was a local choice. That's the way things should work.

As for the Drug Warriors posting the commerce clause fig leaf from the CSA as if it answers the constitutional issue, it actually illustrates the opposite: You could reliably find every federal law of dubious constitutionality by searching for the same phrases.

In fact the commerce clause is only supposed to enable the federal government to prevent state governments from interfering in interstate commerce. So even the underlying basis of this make-believe link to constitutionality directly contradicts the Drug Warriors' position.

Most simply stated: Why did it take an amendment to prohibit booze, and why is an amendment not needed to prohibit certain drugs?

504 posted on 12/31/2001 6:52:14 AM PST by eno_
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To: eno_
...the because snotrag I just blew my nose in was imported...

Have a cup of coffee.

505 posted on 12/31/2001 7:02:13 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: bassmaner
...unconstitutional (prohibitory) legislation...

Persistent nonsense.

506 posted on 12/31/2001 7:04:23 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: eno_
Why did it take an amendment to prohibit booze

Because the regulation and prohibition of alcohol had a well established history of exclusive state and local control.

507 posted on 12/31/2001 7:09:04 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: tpaine;Hemlock;laredo44
The irony is this is a conservative forum. Not a Libertarian forum. I find big-L Libertarianism to be politically sterile. I am a registered Republican in a very liberal state. I am exactly the kind of upper middle class law abiding white male the LEOs assume would be on their side. I hope it gives them nightmares to know I AM NOT on their side, nor are many - probably most - people like me. Ironically, the biggest supporters of no-neck LEOs out there pushing the Drug War are the infantile Oprah-watching Worried Moms in the minivans. It is also obvious to me that the only people agruing for the Drug War are themselves on the Drug War gravy train.
508 posted on 12/31/2001 7:09:23 AM PST by eno_
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To: Roscoe
So computer software, because there is no long history of state and local law, coudl be federally regulated? Oh, wait, there's that other crappy unconstitutional law, the DMCA, that can make me a criminal for having certain software on my PC. The Drug War is in excellent statutory company.
509 posted on 12/31/2001 7:12:22 AM PST by eno_
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To: eno_
Viruses.
510 posted on 12/31/2001 7:15:19 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: A CA Guy
So you don't DISCOUNT the Constitution. That's mighty big of you. However, any "additional law" created MUST CONFORM TO the limits of power granted to government BY the Constitution. It's that simple. The Constitution does NOT say that whatever the Federal Government wants to do is OK. It says: (Amendment X)

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. "

And there is NOTHING in the Constitution providing for government to make war on its own people. Got it yet? It's not about using drugs; it's about violating the SUPREME law of the land and that MUST STOP!

511 posted on 12/31/2001 7:17:07 AM PST by dcwusmc
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To: Zon
Cultural Jihad and Clamper are heros here. Some day, when you put down your dope and grow up you'll appreciate that this country is run by people like them. 145 posted on 12/28/01 10:55 AM Pacific by VA Advogado

Zon ... I would hope that you know what I think of the VA "person" and I have NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that I agree with him on. Let it be known that as far as I'm concerned VA does NOT exist. I will not respond to him or acknowledge his presence.

512 posted on 12/31/2001 7:22:26 AM PST by clamper1797
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To: Roscoe
Persistent nonsense.

Bravo sierra.

Where in the Constitution has the federal government given any authority to prohibit anything? The invocation of the interstate commerce clause is really the "persistent nonsense" - if it were invoked constitutionally, there could be no law passed preventing citizens from growing marijuana or any other psychoactive plant on their property for their own use, but we all know how far that would get :-(.

The temperance movement types realized that it would be unconstitutional to pass a federal law banning booze in the early 20th century and successfully sought a Constitutional amendment giving the government that authority. It promptly exercised that authority with the Volstead Act, and ushered in 14 years of lawlessness known as Prohibition. Thankfully, common sense eventually prevailed and that abomination of liberty was repealed. You Drug Warriors, however, hide behind the generalized raping of the Constitution that was justified by FDR's New Deal, and never saw fit to change the Constitution to further your goals.

That's why drug prohibition is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

513 posted on 12/31/2001 7:22:26 AM PST by bassmaner
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To: Roscoe
Because the regulation and prohibition of alcohol had a well established history of exclusive state and local control.

Then why the need for a federal constitutional amendment, if the states and localities were so good at it? And why no federal constitutional amendment allowing federal drug prohibition?

514 posted on 12/31/2001 7:25:46 AM PST by bassmaner
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To: bassmaner
Where in the Constitution has the federal government given any authority to prohibit anything?

By such "reasoning", there isn't any such thing as illegal aliens. Can't "prohibit" illegal entry into our country, can we now?

Perhaps that's why the leftists and their Libertarian allies support open borders and opposed Proposition 187.

Regulatory powers necessarily include powers of prohibition.

515 posted on 12/31/2001 7:30:00 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
is that your version of a smoke screen, Roscoe? Can't win on the WOD, so move to immigration so you can attack Libertarianism? Pretty weak, man, pretty weak
516 posted on 12/31/2001 7:42:19 AM PST by WindMinstrel
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To: Roscoe
And that line of reasoning results in the conclusion that the federal government has the authority to control every material object in your posession, and any activity you might possibly engage in that could have some potential economic consequence. Do you believe that this is what the intent of the founders was when they wrote:

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; ?

517 posted on 12/31/2001 7:44:39 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: WindMinstrel
Regulatory powers necessarily include powers of prohibition.

No answer, of course.

518 posted on 12/31/2001 7:44:57 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: tacticalogic
...control every material object in your posession...

Really? Who is doing that?

The rationalizations of the legalize "crack and smack" crowd grow ever more absurd.

519 posted on 12/31/2001 7:50:37 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
Do you believe that this is what the intent of the founders was when they wrote:

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; ?

520 posted on 12/31/2001 7:55:28 AM PST by tacticalogic
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