Love is ... life without the pitter-patter of tiny feet (Angry Feminist alert!)

Sydney Morning Herald ^ | 1/2/2 | Rachel Roberts

[Askel5]

Then again, some children are just jerks.

Oompa Loompa doompadee-do, I've got another puzzle for you, Oompa Loompa doompadee-dee, If you are wise you'll listen to me. Who do you blame when your kid is a BRAT, Pampered and spoiled like a siamese cat, Blaming the kids is a lie and a shame, You know exactly who's to blame, The Mother and the Father. Oompa Loompa doompadee dah, If you're not spoiled then you will go far, You will live in happiness too, Like the Oompa Loompa doompadee do.

[GussiedUp]

My partner feels the same

Sounds like she's a lesbian anyhow....

[backup]

More power to her.

She and her partner are exactly the types I do not want to reproduce.

In 50 years, she and her ilk will be gone.

[Pistias]

That's what they said in Sodom, and look how that turned out...

[Phantom Lord]

Then again, some children are just jerks.

You've talked to my parents haven't you.

[Askel5]

My partner feels the same

I had the same reaction.

But that's the beauty of non-procreative sex ... approaches the perfection that is consequence-free, strictly pleasurable, no-strings-attached, "I know EXACTLY what YOU want!" homosexual sex.

[discostu]

Ahh but not everybody likes all everything and thus the best of something may not be appreciated and therefore would not add to the quality of a persons life. For instance, to take an example from something much less important than child rearing, I only like red wine, I've always found this funny because I love fish, but I just don't like the wimpy flowery taste of wines that aren't red (on the flip side I LOVE red wine, even the cheap crappy stuff very dangerous afflication). Even the finest of white wines is not to my liking. Thus, were I collecting the best alcohols I would skip the white wines, there'd be no reason I wouldn't enjoy them anyway (though if I were collecting for resale I would get white wines, they'd be safe no way I'd ever open them).

Just because something is the best doesn't mean you'll like it. While for many child rearing is apparently wonderful and enjoyable it isn't for everyone. If we all took the same pleasure from the same things it would be a terribly boring world no need for variety in anything, no catering to individual tastes. Thusly some people love children, have a bunch, maybe teach or do other things involving kids; and some people loathe children and seek to create a child free zone in their personal space. That's just how it is. Maybe it's a flaw, or maybe that's just how things are.

[glory]

I'm totally fine with feminists not having children-they will be a dying breed!

glory

[Pistias]

You are equating choice in wine (one's tastes in alcohol) with deciding whether or not to raise children (one of the primary experiences of human life). If you don't find that absurd, I really don't know what to say.

[glory]

Perhaps the sceptical comments from family and friends reflect an unwillingness to accept romantic defeat."

Umm, no the skeptical comments come from other women who bought this mumbo jumbo initially only to find down the road that thier "wait and see" skeptics were right. Speaking from experience, my mother and others were absolutely right about just wait and see. With all that said though, I really applaud people who realize they are in fact self obsessed and don't have children instead of having a "novelty" child to brag about at work or something--too many of those types of moms as it is. I just despise when those same self obsessed women try to justify thier childfree choices by putting down perfectly normal women who want children and can not understand the self absorbed outlook of the author. Note to author, they just don't want you to miss out on something so awesome and life changing for the best as having a child ie they care about you. Take it in stride.

[discostu]

Oh man are you living in a twilight zone. Most sex is (straight or gay) non-procreative when you think about the law of averages. Sex ALWAYS has consequences and strings, that's just how it is. Even for those that have gotten themselves so messed up that there is no emotional involvement (sad really) there's still the consequence of having taken a lot of the fun out. I'm surprised it took over 200 posts for somebody to put this out, it usually comes up near the top of these threads, and I just don't understand it. Apparently there's a group of people on FR that think the possibility of pregnancy is the only thing that makes sex at all good or worthwhile. This confuses me. What about the emotional bond? Sex is the ultimate "us time" for a couple, the removal of all barriers and false pretenses; two people getting rid of all the social defense of our society. The possibility of pregnancy doesn't always enhance that, for some it greatly impedes it because of the massive layer of fear that threat adds.

[Pistias]

two people getting rid of all the social defense of our society. The possibility of pregnancy doesn't always enhance that, for some it greatly impedes it because of the massive layer of fear that threat adds.

If you look hard enough you may see the contradiction.

[Askel5]

the removal of all barriers and false pretenses

Yeah right ... save exactly those barriers which make sex truly potent and the absolutely untrammeled, unreserved giving of self 100% percent to another.

Get real.

The rest is just going through the motions. Why else the explosion in accoutrement and celluloid strangers of the "Sexual Revolution". We're sucking a bone that's sere.

[discostu]

I was drawing a parable not a parrallel, I even stated that the two were by no means on equal footing. But the equation still exists, should some one partake of something they do not enjoy, is that something still "best" if they, for whatever reason, have no capacity to find the experience pleasurable or desirable? You were talking about making the best life by experiencing the best in life, which is certainly a valid way to go about having a good life. What I was pointing out was that for all of us there are categories in life that we simply do not enjoy and want nothing to do with, and experiencing things in those categories (whether it be the best of that category or not) will not enhance a person's life.

Wine was an example I used to take it out of the ethereal (to discuss a specific), and to take remove the importance of the decision (which often clouds the decision, the simplest decision in the world becomes nearly impossible if you assign great significance to it). Taking it down to something easily understood and rather insignificant to illustrate the base mechanism at work.

The mechanism being that some people simply do not like kids and will not like kids no matter what. And all the rave reviews of the joys of parenthood from those that like kids have no bearing on the situation. If someone just plain does not like kids having them will no be "best" and will not lead to them having the best life. Because best, in all things, is a matter of taste and choice and what's best for you has little if any bearing on what's best for me.

[joathome]

"But I'm sure none of the posters here would have misbehaved children."

haha Don't know about the others, but I can tell you that my kids aren't running around. I've always been that mean ol' mom who makes her kids behave. My childrearing is definitely from the pre-WWII era. I do not automatically assume that everyone is in love with the lil' darlings. :)

If I thought I would have to put up with most of the brats i see today, I would never have had kids, either!

[glory]

Maybe everybody that likes kids and wants kids should just learn to accept that theirs is NOT a universal belief and go on with their lives. None of "us" are trying to talk people out of having kids, why do "you" feel the need to harp on those that have decided the other way? Handle it and move on. Whether or not there is or ever will be a basinet in my house is nobody's concern but my wife and I's, much like the existences of a basinet in somebody else's house is none of my business. If anything the nagging and holier than thou attitude just makes us dig our heals in further, America is after all a rather free spirited country and American's a notorious for refusing to give into nagging even when they agree with it."

With all due respect...GET OVER IT!

I have children, two of them, and you know what family still "intrudes". Let's face it, anyone who has family is faced with all sorts of "what will you do next questions".What you don't realize is that those of us with children get asked if we'll have more and why or why not CONSTANTLY and with children also come all the other little tidbits of "advice" about what you should or shouldn't do...breastfeed or bottlefeed, homeschool or ps, spanking or not, etc. As far as I see it childfree couples have it easy in this regard because at some point when you get beyond childbearing age, you won't get the comments anymore. Those of us with children will have to listen to other peoples' opinions for a lifetime. I say take it all in stride and if someone does it out of spite than you got bigger problems with that relationship than the nagging.

[discostu]

Pregnancy isn't a social defense, it's a physical state (for some of us it's looms as a physical threat to be feared). Social defenses are clothes, make-up, jewelry, poise, attitude, false fronts, that kind of stuff.

[discostu]

Whatever you want to think dude. Just remember this, eventually you're spouse will be incapable of bearing children, according to what you've said sex will then be completely meaningless and joyless. If that's the fate you want to consign yourself to you can, it's a free country, but to me that sounds like a really good way to screw up a perfectly good marriage.

[Askel5]

Most sex is (straight or gay) non-procreative

By the way ... I got a kick out this.

[joathome]

"Nah, if I reconsidered at 50 I already outlined what I'd do: join Big Brothers."

Actually, if you "reconsider" at 50, you might want to consider adoption at that point. There are many children in this world for whom a 50 year old parent is a a thousand times better than no parent at all. :)