'One Free-Trade Ring To Rule Them All . . . .'

January 5, 2002 | adapted by Ironword

[Ironword]

THREE rings for the Republican-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Democrat-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal CEOs doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Communist China where the Shadows lie.
One Free-Trade Ring to rule them all, One Free-Trade Ring to find them,
One Free-Trade Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Communist China where the Shadows lie.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Gentlemen, do not confuse what we do with China with free trade. There is no such thing as Free Trade with a totalitarian government.

[Austin Willard Wright]

You are perfectly free to use your free choice by shunning cheaper and better foreign products. All I ask is that you don't ask others to put a gun to my head to prevent my from making the free choice to buy these products. Your German analogy is actually a good one. Had the U.S. exercised free trade (instead of set off a trade war through Smoot-Hawley in 1931) Hitler may have never even come to power.

[Ironword]

Since China is guilty of many of the same abuses as the Third Reich, I think it is fitting to substitute "Hitler's Germany" into the "pro-trade" arguments and see how they read.
"We should open the doors to trade with Hitler's Germany, since commerce will soothe their raging spirits and tame their renegade impulses."
"Certainly Hitler's Germany is guilty of human rights abuses, but we'll just make them worse by shunning them."
"Maybe the people in Hitler's Germany are suffering, but how much worse would they be suffering if we didn't trade with them at all?"

An excellent analogy.

[Ironword]

Gentlemen, do not confuse what we do with China with free trade. There is no such thing as Free Trade with a totalitarian government.

Of course, you are right, Luis. I'm just employing the common euphemism for our blood trade with the PRC.

[MadIvan]

Take comfort in the fact that you are right. I just came back from Hong Kong, where I spent Christmas. No tarrifs, no personal taxes above 15%, no corporate taxes, one page form can start a company. Even during a recession (2.6% growth is considered a recession by Hong Kong standards as is 5.3% unemployment rate) the place cooks, it rocks, it thrives. Not everyone is wealthy but it is possible for everyone to become so; at this point, because free trade is allowed to run, Hong Kongers have a higher per capita GDP than the British do. Thanks to the tradition of laissez faire capitalism we passed onto the former colony.

Does free trade hinder political liberty? Not really - indeed, Hong Kong, under the Reds, can perversely be said to be a healthy polity - for example, the Hong Kong Ombudsman advertises on television asking people to call and complain about the government. And people do. Loudly. Demanding that the government be cut back. Further Hong Kong sense is shown by their television: 60 Minutes is accompanied by a warning, "this programme shows undesirable behaviour".

These morons who want to put up trade barriers to "protect" industries should be forced, at gunpoint if necessary, to go to Hong Kong and actually see what free trade does. The results are terrific. In contrast to what happens whenever cack handed government gets in the way and picks winners and losers in industries.

Ivan

[Captain Kirk]

When was it an "excellent analogy?" When we dealt a body a blow to the Weimer Republic through Smoot-Hawley?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Bravo!

[MadIvan]

One final thing - my sister is studying Chinese language in Beijing (she's going to become a curator of Chinese art once she is through) - she came to Hong Kong and was amazed: "These people are so happy!"

Just so. Free trade is beginning to pry open the door, but 70% of the people in Beijing are still employed by the government. According to my sister screaming in rage about getting currency converted at a Beijing bank, boy, can you tell.

Regards, Ivan

[Hugh Akston]

I quoted Ben Franklin as saying that trade never destroyed a nation. You said, then, what about slave trade. Unless you were saying that somehow free trade creates slaves where none existed and that subsequently leads to the ruination of our land, then it was a non sequitur.

[Ironword]

These morons who want to put up trade barriers to "protect" industries should be forced, at gunpoint if necessary, to go to Hong Kong and actually see what free trade does.

Ivan, truly you are mad. Hong Kong is neither the root nor fruit of Chinese Communism.

I'm surprised one who is so set against the Marxist Feinians would be so coddling of the Chinese Marxists.

[Ironword]

When was it an "excellent analogy?" When we dealt a body a blow to the Weimer Republic through Smoot-Hawley?

Why don't you expand on that a little for the uninitiated.

[Ironword]

Unless you were saying that somehow free trade creates slaves where none existed and that subsequently leads to the ruination of our land, then it was a non sequitur.

I meant that the slave trade almost destroyed the United States. Similarly, we have a long-standing (and relatively unenforced) law on the books prohibiting importation of slave-labor or forced-labor products and any trade therein. Thus, Franklin's comment requires qualification -- it is not absolute.

[Ironword]

Ping

[McGavin999]

Yeah, I guess we Americans are just too weak and wimpy to compete. We'd better throw up walls to protect ourselves because we'll never make it in competition against those other countries. Let's all give up, they're better then us, we just not good enough.

Is that what you want us to say?

[IronJack]

cheaper and better foreign products.

Cheaper, yes. Better? Doubtful.

All I ask is that you don't ask others to put a gun to my head to prevent my from making the free choice to buy these products.

Never had that intention. But when we go to war with the Chinese, and they shoot you down using weapons bought and paid for with your own money, the last thought that goes through your mind should be "How cheaply were these products purchased?"

[Ironword]

I don't understand why "protectionism" has been tossed out here -- I haven't uttered the word neither supported the concept. Actually, if I recall, during the Clinton era the Clintonoids and their media apparatchiks labeled anyone opposed to MFN / PNTR as "isolationists," which was of course propaganda.

The point here is that the Nixon-Kissinger policy of utterly delinked "free trade" toward the PRC has not brought about the social reforms promised -- in fact, the social situation grows worse under a prosperous CCP.

[Hugh Akston]

Few things in this world are absolute.

Except my vodka when Grey Goose is sold out.

[Arator]

Next time you buy a pillow from China, check the content of the filler. If it's human hair, the parallel should be obvious.

Well said!

[Ironword]

xcept my vodka when Grey Goose is sold out.

Ha!!

[Ironword]

Cheaper, yes. Better? Doubtful.

So many of the "Made in China" products are junk -- sort of like Japanese products before Deming taught them quality management and so forth.