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Papers Reveal Nazi Aim: End Christianity .
Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | 1/10/02 | Edward Colimore

Posted on 01/10/2002 9:53:22 AM PST by marshmallow

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1 posted on 01/10/2002 9:53:22 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow,Askel5, Free the USA, struwwelpeter,NewAmsterdam, Black Jade,Carry_Okie,jmp702,jjbro
bttt
2 posted on 01/10/2002 9:57:18 AM PST by CommiesOut
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To: marshmallow
Seems now the US congress, the US senate, the US administation, and the USSC are trying to do likewise through the public school system.
3 posted on 01/10/2002 9:58:28 AM PST by Alas
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To: marshmallow
Papers Reveal Nazi Aim: End Christianity.

Same aim as Islam.

4 posted on 01/10/2002 10:01:27 AM PST by ppaul
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To: marshmallow
It sounds like the same plan that the Communist and Socialists have been doing with some of our American Churches for decades.
5 posted on 01/10/2002 10:02:45 AM PST by Fish out of Water
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To: marshmallow
". . . They wanted to eliminate the Jews altogether, but they were also looking to eliminate Christianity."

Shhhh! Don't say that! The Holocaust industry is going to be very disappointed to hear this.

6 posted on 01/10/2002 10:03:31 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: marshmallow
While we are all aware of the historical phenomenon of theocracies, religion is enemy No. 1 of any modern state, because religious people have inner freedom.
7 posted on 01/10/2002 10:04:15 AM PST by annalex
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To: marshmallow
What a coincidence. Isn't this similar to what Islamic Fundamentalists aim to do?
8 posted on 01/10/2002 10:05:11 AM PST by Destructor
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To: Destructor
Isn't this similar to what Islamic Fundamentalists aim to do?

Not to mention the World Council of Churches...

9 posted on 01/10/2002 10:06:52 AM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: marshmallow; *Christian_list; *Christian persecutio; *Clash of Civilizatio
listing.
10 posted on 01/10/2002 10:06:53 AM PST by denydenydeny
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To: marshmallow
Will this finally put to rest the standard lie that Nazism was a "Christian" movement out to exterminate Jews and others in the name of "Christianity"?

Some atheists and others are going to be very disappointed.

11 posted on 01/10/2002 10:09:06 AM PST by Campion
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To: marshmallow
Isn't this kind of old news?

From what I've read from several books about the Third Reich, the Nazis were strongly already heading away from Christianity anyway, especially with Adolf Hitler's strong obsession with the occult.

Why do you think there was considerable interest during the Nazi era to bring back the old Norse gods? Small wonder why Richard Wagner's Ring cycle of operas was so prominently publicized--and why Wagner's descendants are still trying to live it down.

12 posted on 01/10/2002 10:10:53 AM PST by RayChuang88
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To: Campion,tonycavanagh,AGAviator
As a very compassionate person and good comrade I can feel their pain already.
Ughhh :(
13 posted on 01/10/2002 10:12:25 AM PST by CommiesOut
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To: marshmallow
The existence of these papers is not surprising to anyone who has read the history of the Nazi movement before the revisionists, the Pius X haters, and the Catholic-bashers got hold of it.

When Bismark decided to modernize Germany into a great power in 1870, one of his first actions was to attack the Catholic Church, which he saw as an incurable impediment to his plans. He put the Lutheran Church on the back burner, to be dealt with later.

With Hitler it was basically the same. Catholicism had to be destroyed. Maybe half the German Lutherans would have to be destroyed as well, but the other half might be coopted and twisted to his purposes.

Naziism was esentially pagan. Like most modern movements which are obsessed with power and control, it wanted to rule over nature and human nature through magic and science. It refused what Christianity advocates: to submit to God and take one's proper place within the nature that God created.

14 posted on 01/10/2002 10:12:48 AM PST by Cicero
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To: tribune7
ping
15 posted on 01/10/2002 10:14:28 AM PST by Temple Owl
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To: marshmallow
"Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked to meet this situation [church influence] by complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion...

Their names wouldn't happen to be Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, would they?
16 posted on 01/10/2002 10:15:56 AM PST by Frumious Bandersnatch
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: RayChuang88
From what I've read from several books about the Third Reich, the Nazis were strongly already heading away from Christianity anyway, especially with Adolf Hitler's strong obsession with the occult.

So are you saying that my new computer game "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" is historically acurate? /sarcasm
18 posted on 01/10/2002 10:16:24 AM PST by LetsRok
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To: The Documentary Lady
I can tell you this....MANY, MANY of hitler's targets were Orthodox Christians....he supported, aided and encouraged the nazis in Croatia and the muslims of Bosnia and the Albanian muslims in Kosovo to kill them, forcebly convert them or send them off to concentration camps all over the Balkans and Germany.

In fact, the Patriarch and hundreds of Serbian Orthodox Clergy were in concentration camps....many other clergy members including Nuns and Monks , were tortured, multilated and murdered.

19 posted on 01/10/2002 10:28:31 AM PST by crazykatz
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To: marshmallow
Gosh. A planned attack on Christianity by the Nazis!

It's a good thing we got rid of them. Such a thing never happened before and surely couldn't happen again!... could it?

20 posted on 01/10/2002 10:29:14 AM PST by Gritty
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To: marshmallow
"Different steps in that persecution, such as the campaign for the suppression of denominational and youth organizations, the campaign against denominational schools, the defamation campaign against the clergy, started on the same day in the whole area of the Reich . . . and were supported by the entire regimented press, by Nazi Party meetings, by traveling party speakers."

That the press throughout the country would begin a propaganda campaign simultaneously was nothing unusual. Newspapers and other organs got directives from Goebbels's Ministry of Propaganda more or less every day. A lot of those directives have survived. I wonder if the directives for the anti-Christian campaign survive.

Interesting, however, that the Nazi Party organs should have taken up the same campaigns at the same time as the press. That suggests to me that this was all done on Hitler's orders. I wonder if anything survives indicating that he gave such orders.

By the way, the article doesn't make it clear whether these documents were already published in the voluminous documentary publications of the Nuremberg Trials, or whether they are only published now. Anybody know?

21 posted on 01/10/2002 10:30:03 AM PST by aristeides
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: RayChuang88
Isn't this kind of old news?

Old news yes, but not very well known or publicized. You can scan entire textbooks and not find it, spend semesters listening to history lectures in colleges, watch hours of History/Discovery/Learning and never hear it. On the internet, even an offhand mention that Nazis were anti-Christian will get you thousands of bytes of prepared text dumps attempting to prove the Nazis were Christian offshoots.

24 posted on 01/10/2002 10:36:12 AM PST by ExpandNATO
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To: CommiesOut
Well gee ... without the Jews, Christianity becomes rather incoherent, does it not?

All the same trip.

(The Reich was ahead of its time in many respects ... where the "spirit of" Vatican II is concerned.)

25 posted on 01/10/2002 10:40:06 AM PST by Askel5
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To: marshmallow
I think there is a parallel between this and the recent Democratic strategy to tie the Religious Right to the Taliban. Could this angle be explored to counter the DNC strategy? Anti Religious = Nazi = DNC.
26 posted on 01/10/2002 10:41:14 AM PST by B-A-Grizzley
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To: marshmallow
'I didn't realize that they were trying to convert Christians to a Nazi philosophy.'

I read an account of a mother in Germany in the thirties who was very concerned because all the children seemed to be drifting away from their parents. They didn't listen to their parents anymore. Their sons were getting mouthy with their fathers. Their daughters were getting pregnant out of wedlock. The schools seemed to be teaching things that were tearing the family apart. Hitler had control of the schools. Much like the NEA today. Is it any wonder that Bill and Hillary thought so highly of Hitler's tactics that they personally gave copies of 'Mein Kamphf' to staff members?

27 posted on 01/10/2002 10:42:06 AM PST by Slyfox
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To: marshmallow
Don't you know the Nazis were really right wing Christian zealots and the church were their accomplices?

What would the world do if they couldn't draw the same old line between Christianity and Nazism or Facism in general?

28 posted on 01/10/2002 10:47:24 AM PST by wardaddy
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
ping
30 posted on 01/10/2002 10:55:03 AM PST by cicero's_son
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To: cicero's_son,Goetz_von_Berlichingen
I'll see that ping Cicero and raise you one!!
31 posted on 01/10/2002 10:57:59 AM PST by wardaddy
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To: Ward Smythe
Not to mention the World Council of Churches.

And, as encouraged by the UN. By the looks of today's touchy-feely, emotional needs and self-esteem oriented ministries, as well as the variety show/theatre style services, the plan to destroy christianity is on the march, under a different banner. The Willow Creek/Saddleback heresies are leading the way on the evangelical side; built on Robert Schuller's concept "SELF ESTEEM: The new Reformation", his 1982 book, which declared, "Classical theology has erred in its insistence that theology be 'God-centered,' not 'man-centered'." (p64) (God centered christianity is in error!!?) Nothing but humanism masquerading as christianity. But Carl Rogers masquerading as Jesus doesn't make him the Christ.

32 posted on 01/10/2002 10:59:17 AM PST by KirkandBurke
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To: aristeides
I wonder if anything survives indicating that he gave such orders.

There is quite a lot of material around dealing with the belief system(s) of the Nazis. Some of it is rather odd. Take this one, for example, from a chapter titled: Genocide - an Act of Black Magic, in a book by Nigel Pennick:

...yet Himmler gave his genocide programme priority even over the survival of Germany itself. Genocide was the magical act whereby the history of the world would forever be transformed, even if Germany did not survive. The elimination of the Jews, and with them their culture and religion, would leave a vacuum for the ascendance of the demonic powers controlled by or controlling the Third Reich. Himmler felt himself a participant in a psychic armageddon. Fortunately he was on the losing side.

I won't vouch for Mr. Pennick's correctness or anything, but that is one of the views out there. And Hitler was, if anything, even more squirrely than Himmler. For more on the Nazi's plan to take over the church, go look at Alfred Rosenberg/Hitler.

33 posted on 01/10/2002 10:59:24 AM PST by Cachelot
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To: Campion
Anybody well versed in Nazi history (such as yourself) already knows that after winning the War, Hitler next goal was the destruction of the church (i.e., All religions under the Reich). Unfortunately, many of the "Blame Religion for everything folks" refuse to acknowledge this.
34 posted on 01/10/2002 11:03:55 AM PST by ohioman
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To: Ward Smythe
Not to mention the World Council of Churches...

You beat me to it. The biggest threat to Christianity today is from people pretending to be Christians.

35 posted on 01/10/2002 11:08:20 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: Campion
Wasn't it in one of his endless apology speeches that Comrade Clinton referred to Hitler as a "Christian, in a twisted kind of way"? More evidence of Bubba's total ignorance of history, his vaunted intelligence notwithstanding (Rhodes Scholars are a notorious joke anyway). The Nazis were an explicitly pagan movement and Adolf never made any secret of his contempt for Christianity as a "religion for slaves".

Wild Bill Donovan was a great American, by the way. Is his archive on-line and does anybody have a link?

36 posted on 01/10/2002 11:09:33 AM PST by Argus
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To: marshmallow
Any totalitarian regime (Nazi, Communist, US Democrats, etc.) will try to undo Christianity's courage, hope, individual choice, redemption, etc. because God can then be replaced by "The State" honchos.
37 posted on 01/10/2002 11:11:01 AM PST by lds23
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To: ohioman
I have to quibble a bit with you, there, ohioman.

The Nazis aim was not the extirpation of religion per se, but the destruction of both Judaism and Christianity, and their replacement by a new state cult.

That new religion combined elements of neo-paganism and occultism with the idolatrous worship of "German-ness" in general and the person of Adolf Hitler in particular.

38 posted on 01/10/2002 11:13:53 AM PST by Campion
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To: RayChuang88
Your# 12) Correct!!

Both, JFK and Hitler were 'Patsies'.

39 posted on 01/10/2002 11:21:08 AM PST by maestro
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To: marshmallow
Islam, Public Schools, Communists, Socialists, Democrats, aligned together to use government power to eliminate Christianity.

Christians, through principal, making decision not to use governemnt power to impact religious expression (Founding fathers)

Two irreconciliable philosophies - so why do the Repubs try to appease the demorats? Why don't people see a spirit of antichrist when it is spitting in the face? What people call "the jude-christian" ethos is the enemy of all democrats, communists, muslims, socialists, atheists, etc etc - Every group on the inside of the "tolerance" movement is AGAINST and INTOLERANT of the "judeo-christian" ethos. Why don't people smell the spirit of anti-christ in the tolerance movement? Yes they are anti-american - but only the juedo-christian part - Dr Laura did a great piece yesterday on how the tolerance crowd is not really for tolerance but against america - the truth is they are anti - judeo/christian - ie ANTICHRIST

40 posted on 01/10/2002 11:28:08 AM PST by artios
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To: lexcorp
To: Faith_j

>I expected a response like that from you.

Well, when you lie, you should expect to be called out on it.

>What do you expect from a man who spends virtually all his time attacking Christians,

And when have I attacked Christians? Are you one of those simple minded apes who considers criticism to be an attack?

>and in this thread linking them to Nazi's?

Most Nazi's were Christians. Deal with it. "Gott Mit Uns"

30 posted on 1/8/02 8:55 AM Pacific by lexcorp

41 posted on 01/10/2002 11:36:10 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
Most Nazi's were Christians. Deal with it. "Gott Mit Uns"

What's your source for this allegation? You mean most Nazi party members were also professing Christians? I don't think so.

Also, "Gott mit uns" (="God [is] with us"), was a motto of the German Empire during WW I. It wasn't used by the Nazis. Get a clue.

42 posted on 01/10/2002 11:56:24 AM PST by Map Kernow
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To: Map Kernow
Yeah, liberalism is factual trivia---mental-social... insanity!
43 posted on 01/10/2002 12:01:48 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: marshmallow
Looks like the Nazi's were following the tradition of the Mohammedans:

"First the Saturday people. Then the Sunday people..."

44 posted on 01/10/2002 12:02:17 PM PST by cicero's_son
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To: Map Kernow
"Gott mit uns" was a motto of the German Empire during WW I. It wasn't used by the Nazis. Get a clue.

Well, it was, in a manner of speaking. It was on German Army belt buckles and other accoutrements, but it had been there for a long time before the Nazis and the Nazis just never changed it. Proves nothing about the Nazis one way or another.

45 posted on 01/10/2002 12:04:40 PM PST by Campion
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To: marshmallow
"Nazis... I hate these guys."
46 posted on 01/10/2002 12:05:00 PM PST by StoneColdGOP
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To: ExpandNATO
Old News?

I read THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH by Shirer (sp?) over 20 years ago now and I seem to remember this was also documented in there. Basically, the NAZIs wanted to subvert EVEN Christianity to THEIR purposes.

47 posted on 01/10/2002 12:11:33 PM PST by DoctorMichael
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To: Askel5
Give the Nazis a break. They were against smoking, even on the Russian Front. They were environmentalist and nature lovers, had early childhood education and summmercamps and mass produced the first fuel efficent car. Except for the war thing and the camps they would be elected today in this country.
48 posted on 01/10/2002 12:17:20 PM PST by Leisler
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To: cicero's_son; wardaddy
David Irving's biorgraphy of Goebbels shows the fine line that the Propaganda Minister had to tread with respect to Christianity. Many of the leading Nazis were lapsed Catholics who despised the Church. Their ultimate goal appears to have been to replace the Judeo-Christian religions with something akin to racist deism.

Hitler was not -- so it is reported -- an "Odinist", and had little patience with the neo-pagans, probably regarding them on the same level as the people who dress up as Klingons at sci-fi conventions.

The major obstacle to the Nazi agenda was, in my opinion, the German people themselves. Had Hitler and Goebbels explicitly stated their anti-Christian agenda, the Nazi party would have been unable to co-opt the "genuine" rightists into the anti-Bolshevic alliance of the Weimar period. The fact that the ruling circle of the NSDAP had to keep their real feelings under wraps (with plans to "settle scores" after the war), has led enemies of Christianity (such as W. Clinton and some on this forum) to conflate the NSDAP and the Church. These people mistakenly take the Nazis' advertising campaign, aimed at traditionally-minded Germans, at face falue. They ignore the actual "product" that was delivered, which includes the persecution of Christian groups and ministers. That is as bogus as conflating the platform of the Democrat Party with the Constitution.

49 posted on 01/10/2002 12:21:40 PM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: f.Christian
liberalism is factual trivia

It interested me the way the poster you quoted conflated not simply Nazism and Christianity, but WW I Germany and Nazi Germany. The irony is, Germany during WW I had a relatively good reputation regarding its treatment of its Jewish citizens, contrasted with France with its recent "Dreyfus affair," and Russia with its anti-Jewish pogroms. In fact, German forces on the Eastern Front in WW I often had to take care of Jewish refugees who had fled from Russian held territory, often the result of persecution from Russians who suspected them of sympathy for Germany. The man in charge of homefront logistics for the German war effort in WW I, Walther Rathenau, was also Jewish.

50 posted on 01/10/2002 12:29:18 PM PST by Map Kernow
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