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Hydrogen Powered Cars! HA!
1/25/2002 | John Jamieson

Posted on 01/25/2002 12:12:08 PM PST by John Jamieson

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To: Petronski
Not for everybody. It's about the same size and weight as the old VW Beatle. I thought the technology was pretty amasing. I'd take a 50 mpg Cadillac based on the same technology.
151 posted on 11/02/2002 6:45:59 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: Old Professer
1 kilowatt is 1 horsepower at normal electric motor eff. Hydrogen is only a couple pounds per cu feet even as a liquid at -420 degrees.

Glad to hear that you don't really disgree with my overall argument. Too many people accept what they are told by people selling stuff. Common sense usually will win.
152 posted on 11/02/2002 6:52:09 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: RAWGUY
67 was a great year!

JRJ MIT67
153 posted on 11/02/2002 6:54:31 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: Jersey Kid
And the last thing, what to do with millions of tons of "used" fuel rods ?

Recycle them, as the French and others are doing. And as we would be doing except for the peanut farmer.

154 posted on 11/02/2002 7:08:47 PM PST by jackbill
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Comment #155 Removed by Moderator

To: John Jamieson
1 kilowatt is 1 horsepower at normal electric motor eff. Hydrogen is only a couple pounds per cu feet even as a liquid at -420 degrees.

Bear with me here, since 746 watts=1 HP, then 1000/746=1.34 HP ideally; efficiency losses brings us to between 1.5 and 2 HP depending on engine used and fuel efficiency.

One cubic foot of any liquid is 7.48 gallons, are you sure of your temperature for liquid hydrogen? I get -431(-257C) from Langes.

156 posted on 11/02/2002 9:40:01 PM PST by Old Professer
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To: Old Professer
1000 watts used at 74.6% eff makes 1 Hp.

-42X is what the liquid hydrogen was in the Shuttle external tank. It's very dependant on pressure. Ours was always boiling.
157 posted on 11/02/2002 10:24:06 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: John Jamieson
I recommend Roy McAlister, president of the American Hydrogen Association. After looking into Hydrogen and why it hasn't been made a reality, I came across the individual previously mentioned. Although I thought purchasing three of his DVD's and his book would be another dead end an associate and I converted a small lawn mower engine's carburetor by removing it and feeding a Hydrogen fuel line directly behind the intake port. The mower runs just as good or even better than when it was on gasoline.
158 posted on 09/01/2006 4:35:43 PM PDT by TheHydroBaron (American Renewable Energies, dedicated to bringing manufactured fuels to the people.)
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To: John Jamieson
.....Hydrogen, made from water, is thus an energy storage media like a battery, not an energy source.....

Very true.

Question: Why just use the hydrogen? Why not use the oxygen too?
In other words, build an engine with "injectors" of some sort and inject the proper amount of hydrogen and oxygen into the combustion chamber.
It seems to me like that might increase the efficiency of the overall process as opposed to just using the hydrogen and "throwing the oxygen away" as it were.

Just asking.

159 posted on 09/01/2006 4:46:22 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Fiddlstix
Because there is lots of oxygen floating around to use. The nitrogen in air helps control the maximum temp reducing cooling problems. No eff. increase to using pure oxygen.
160 posted on 09/04/2006 9:50:01 AM PDT by John Jamieson
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To: John Jamieson

Thanks for the info


161 posted on 09/04/2006 10:03:23 AM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: John Jamieson

What a great article! I tell me husband that we shoud "burn it all" all the time! Thanks for writing this up!


162 posted on 09/04/2006 10:11:36 AM PDT by BamaGirl (The Framers Rule!)
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To: EBUCK

163 posted on 09/04/2006 10:17:01 AM PDT by Vision (God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, love and self-discipline 2Timothy1)
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To: Maceman
Ballard Power Systems ... I bought Ballard in 1998-99 for around $8 and sold it at $55 when I realized that Ballard was more interested in getting Development Grants and signing Partnering Arrangements than in developing commercially viable FC Engines.

Maybe I'll start watching Ballard once again.

164 posted on 09/04/2006 11:09:05 AM PDT by bimbo
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To: stboz
BTW, biodiesel is intriguing....and clean (more so than "normal diesel.)

They have clean diesel power all over Europe ... it is only political considerations keeping it out of the U.S.

165 posted on 09/04/2006 11:13:13 AM PDT by bimbo
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To: John Jamieson

Plenty of sun out here in the desert southwest. Almost all of it is wasted.


166 posted on 09/04/2006 11:14:19 AM PDT by HarmlessLovableFuzzball
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To: John Jamieson

Chemical Batteries like lead acid, gel deep cycle and even the lithium have life times that are short by a cars lifetime definition. They are heavy; they are a problem in an accident; Disposal is a problem. Chemical storage is bay far the best way to store the energy for a car. What’s wrong with a nuclear power plant producing hydrogen to fuel our cars with, and hydrogen stations with “Spare” tanks that a re a universal size and shape (Vehicles could use one or more, i.e. bigger vehicles four or six, etc) We can then drive cross country, stopping for refills as we do now, and we can not pollute (Fusion reactors can eat the waste of Fission reactors, so no waste to bury.) no pollution, no oil from Saudis what’s the down side?


Oh, the oil companies stocks would drop like a stone and these reactors would be terrorist target.


167 posted on 09/04/2006 11:29:44 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
Liquid Hydrogen is the densest form. It takes about two pounds to make the equivalent energy of one gallon of gas. Two pounds of hydrogen liquid occupy about 7 gallons of space, leak through most materials, cost about $50, boils off about 7% a day when stored in very heavy cryo tanks. Gaseous storage requires even heavier and larger tanks.


Other than that, it's an excellent fuel.
168 posted on 09/04/2006 11:49:29 AM PDT by John Jamieson
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To: John Jamieson

Know your topic, look good

http://www.billingsenergy.com/

The storage system: http://www.billingsenergy.com/Research/HWV-Chapter_07.pdf

(In fairness I met Dr Mel billings the brother of the founder of Billings Energy Corp. several years ago and talked about this, so in a way I am cheating)

But hey, even if this is not the solution, I’m sure with a little incentive, we can figure something out.

“Necessity, the mother of invention” – Love quotes.

BTW, If I remember correctly, I was told the tests of these metal hydride storage tanks included being shot with incendiary rounds, and all that happened was they set it on fire (and it burned very brightly, and for two days IIRC.


169 posted on 09/04/2006 12:10:16 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

MIT degree, 27 years working with hydrogen fuel at NASA KSC.
I should know something about it.
John


170 posted on 09/04/2006 12:38:56 PM PDT by John Jamieson
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To: Ditto
Finding a way to contain a plasma at 25,000 degrees for starters. It's way more than your average thermos can handle.

You need to stop getting the cheap ones from the supermarket and get the good ones from Sporting Goods stores.

171 posted on 09/04/2006 12:43:16 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (the war on poverty should include health club memberships for the morbidly poor)
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To: bimbo

Ballard did hit 13 in May for a day, now a rock solid $6. You should buy some.


172 posted on 09/04/2006 12:43:30 PM PDT by John Jamieson
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To: John Jamieson

You said” Liquid Hydrogen is the densest form. It takes about two pounds to make the equivalent energy of one gallon of gas. Two pounds of hydrogen liquid occupy about 7 gallons of space, leak through most materials, cost about $50, boils off about 7% a day when stored in very heavy cryo tanks. Gaseous storage requires even heavier and larger tanks.

Other than that, it's an excellent fuel.”

I pointed out a new Way of doing things (while admitting I was not an expert, and saying I was “Cheating” by having talked to the inventor’s brother)

You said “MIT degree, 27 years working with hydrogen fuel at NASA KSC.
I should know something about it.”

Great!

So, does this process I linked you to work? What are its flaws? Can they be fixed? Will it be cost effective? How long to build it (if it’s going to be worth it)? If you’ve got the expertise, share…

Or do you mean “Hey I’ve got a degree, so don’t question me or confuse me with the facts!”

(When I put together a team I like to have 4 degrees and two self taught geniuses It’s entertaining and they bring out the best in each other, structure, and outside the box solutions)


173 posted on 09/04/2006 1:57:49 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: TheHydroBaron
I converted a small lawn mower engine's carburetor by removing it and feeding a Hydrogen fuel line directly behind the intake port. The mower runs just as good or even better than when it was on gasoline.

Oooh, we have another hydrogen pimp on FR!

174 posted on 09/04/2006 3:19:37 PM PDT by dirtboy (This tagline has been photoshopped)
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To: reg45; Wonder Warthog
Yes, the Indy 500 runs on methanol

It used to, now they are using ethanol.

Ethanol To Fuel Cars In Indianapolis 500 Starting In 2006

175 posted on 09/04/2006 3:43:26 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: John Jamieson
Wonder why the the Space Station uses solar?

Because no heavy fuel needs to be transported.

176 posted on 09/04/2006 4:39:11 PM PDT by reg45
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To: John Jamieson

Good Luck, I've been hearing that we are "20 years away from fusion" for 40 years now


177 posted on 09/04/2006 5:15:07 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: DelphiUser
I read your link. The conclusion was 100 pounds of tankage per gallon of gasoline equivalent. See the problem?

Also notice the lack of activity for the past 2 or 3 years on this website.

Please read your links yourself before wasting my time.
178 posted on 09/04/2006 10:22:45 PM PDT by John Jamieson
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To: Restorer

Yes, CTNF has always been 50 years in the future, for the last 50 years, and always WILL be 50 years in the future. BUT it has a LARGE lobby of physicists in congress, they've been throwing oodles of money at that black hole all these years and it will NEVER get past the Lawrence Coefficient(break even point). Their new scam is this ITER thing in france. It is these same jokers who bad mouth Cold Fusion, 17 years of it now.....As to the "hydrogen economy", another sorry joke; they never tell you WHERE the energy comes from for hydrolysis other than solar, wind....gimme a break...


179 posted on 09/05/2006 9:10:18 PM PDT by timer
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To: John Jamieson

>> Please read your links yourself before wasting my time.

I read, the link, but didn’t see the ramifications like you did, (Not my specialty) now that you point it out, yep, it needs work. I hope they find a solution to these problems, but not holding my breath either.

It may not be “Obvious” to you, but I don’t have an MIT degree, and 27 years of experience with hydrogen. That’s why I like Free Republic; you ask answers, you get questions (Ok sometimes the reverse).

I am sorry you feel I made you waste time reading something that “Looked good to me” but I am not an expert in your field. Which is why I asked you to go and look at it and evaluate it for us? I say “us” because I often read a post such as this for information without commenting, and I am sure I am not the only one who learned something here.

P.S. Drop the condescending tone, it makes you sound small and petty. (I am willing to bet that’s not how you talk in person, as for me, I really am funny in person… Honest!).


180 posted on 09/10/2006 8:03:45 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
Sorry for the condescending tone, you're right, I do get frustrated about pseudoscience.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
181 posted on 09/10/2006 9:12:09 PM PDT by John Jamieson
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