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Secrets, Lies, and Atomic Spies,.....Or... Joe McCarthy was more right than he ever knew
PBS Nova ^ | February 5, 2002 | Peter Tyson

Posted on 02/05/2002 11:06:24 PM PST by quietolong

NOVA reveals startling new evidence that Soviet spies penetrated America's deepest secrets, including the Manhattan Project, in the 1940's. By cracking the code of Soviet diplomatic cables, the FBI was able to hunt down "atom spies" such as Klaus Fuchs and Julius Rosenberg. But the true "master spy," a physicist named Ted Hall, got away -- and his gripping story is presented for the first time by NOVA. Read Venona Intercepts By Peter Tyson

In 1995, the U.S. National Security Agency broke a half century of silence by releasing translations of Soviet cables decrypted back in the 1940s by the Venona Project. Venona was a top-secret U.S. effort to gather and decrypt messages sent in the 1940s by agents of what is now called the KGB and the GRU, the Soviet military intelligence agency. The cables revealed the identities of numerous Americans who were spies for the Soviet Union, including those chronicled in NOVA's "Secrets, Lies, and Atomic Spies."

The four Venona cables presented here provide striking evidence of the covert activities of several atomic-era spies, including Klaus Fuchs, Julius Rosenberg, and Theodore Alvin Hall. Through the cables and accompanying stories, peer through the keyhole into the secret lives of these and other agents, who gave away details of the atomic bomb and other highly sensitive technologies. Watch for code words such as "Enormous," which stood for the Manhattan Project, America's atomic-bomb program

Link to Nova web sight on this show


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: joemccarthy; mccarthy
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This Was a good show.

One of the things that it showed was how many Communists spys there were in high government posts. AND that there were over 300 spys never identified

How many do we have in government NOW.

Joe McCarthy Didn’t know how right he was. Or as McCarthy said. "The government is full of Communists.

Info on Senator Joseph McCarthy

1 posted on 02/05/2002 11:06:25 PM PST by quietolong
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: quietolong
The title says what many people have been saying for years; that McCarthy had no idea how right he really was. The USSR would not have developed nuclear weapons on its own. American communists are directly responsible for the Cold War, for just this reason. Of course, had FDR lived, all American nuclear technology would probably have been shared with the USSR at no charge.
3 posted on 02/06/2002 1:44:20 AM PST by Twodees
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To: abwehr
It's too bad that McCarthy didn't have access to this info. He most certainly would have revealed the names and lamp posts and trees in DC would have been decorated with strange fruit. That would not have been a bad thing at all.
4 posted on 02/06/2002 1:47:31 AM PST by Twodees
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To: quietolong
Just as many Americans never heard of Ted Hall; many Americans are still not aware that in 1943, under the Lend-Lease program, tons of nuclear materials were shipped to the USSR.
5 posted on 02/06/2002 2:06:56 AM PST by jamaksin
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: abwehr
This would make a fascinating movie. Do you think it will ever be made? Not bloody likely! But I'd love to be proven wrong.
7 posted on 02/06/2002 2:31:57 AM PST by driftless
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To: quietolong
Tailgunner Joe--Patriot Whistleblower or Right-Wing Witch-hunter?
8 posted on 02/06/2002 2:34:41 AM PST by backhoe
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To: abwehr
Yes, Virginia, our government was riddled with communists

You're right.

And you know what? We still have 'em. When you hear Hollywood and the media go crazy about people who were "Black Listed"...it is out of fear and loathing. The left knew they were found out--and they didn't like it.

9 posted on 02/06/2002 2:48:36 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: abwehr
About the best NOVA could do to maintain the demonization of McCarthy

LOL Well for gods sake It’s PBS in Boston ( little /s )

I think that he should somewhat be demonization. Had he conducted him self better instead of trying to make political hay the term McCarthyism would not have evolved to keep others from digging into this.

10 posted on 02/06/2002 10:17:22 AM PST by quietolong
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To: jamaksin
under the Lend-Lease program, tons of nuclear materials were shipped to the USSR

The book Dark Sun goes very much into this It's a good read !

11 posted on 02/06/2002 10:20:39 AM PST by quietolong
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To: driftless
This would make a fascinating movie.

Well let's make it !
The first FR production !

12 posted on 02/06/2002 10:22:41 AM PST by quietolong
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To: quietolong
Yes, the Chapter "Super Lend-Lease" is quite a read.

Literally boxcars of "stuff" got shipped to the USSR - oh, yes the head of Lend-Lease - Harry "The Hop" Hopkins!!! One of FDR's favorites!!!

13 posted on 02/06/2002 12:10:22 PM PST by jamaksin
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To: jamaksin
Ahh you've read it. Have you read RR's other book Makeing of the A-Bomb ?
14 posted on 02/06/2002 2:06:55 PM PST by quietolong
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To: abwehr
"I have heard that a number of 'journalists' were on the payroll of the Soviet Union and this was long after the Stalin era.Many more than just I.F. Stone. "

And today's 'journalists' still use McCarthy's name as a smear word. Tail gunner Joe was getting too close and they still want the truth buried about foreign interest supporters, then and now.

When you see someone today catch the flak of pundits (Buchanan), you know he is over the target.

15 posted on 02/06/2002 2:23:12 PM PST by ex-snook
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To: quietolong
I didn't see the show, but I received "The Venona Secrets" for Christmas,among others,and am only about 80-85 pages in and it is amazing reading.I must complete it first,before I buy copies for my my horrible,liberal, co-workers birthdays this year.That is my plan.
16 posted on 02/06/2002 3:29:19 PM PST by Pagey
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To: Pagey
I did not know there was a book on this. What's the rest of the info on the book. I'll see if I can get it.
17 posted on 02/06/2002 5:35:57 PM PST by quietolong
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To: quietolong
Yes ... even have a few chunks of "Trinitite" on my desk.
18 posted on 02/07/2002 3:05:15 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: jamaksin
Cool!
19 posted on 02/07/2002 7:40:34 AM PST by quietolong
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To: Pagey
have the book on order. can't wait for it to come in.
20 posted on 02/10/2002 11:26:32 AM PST by quietolong
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To: Twodees
Pat Moynihan said recently it would have been better if we took the intelligence hit and released what we knew in the 1950's. Not doing so tore America apart and allowed the communists in our government a free ride. Amazing statement from a Democrat. Most today are not aware there were once patriots in that party.
21 posted on 02/10/2002 11:33:12 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
I was taken back that PBS would even air this show and this one

TRADING DEMOCRACY

And on the same night even.

22 posted on 02/10/2002 11:40:55 AM PST by quietolong
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To: abwehr
On the matter of I. F. Stone's recruitment and his use as an agent of influence by the KGB, see The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America's Traitors by Herbert Romerstein and Eric Breindel, pp. 432-437. Stone took their money, and he knew who they were when he took it.
23 posted on 02/10/2002 11:43:50 AM PST by Clioman
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To: Clioman
When Bob Novak accused Stone of spying for the Soviet Union on Crossfire our dear friend and MSNBC contributor Eric Alterman called the charge "McCarthyism" and complained to the president of CNN.

"I Lied": Testing the Intellectual Honesty of Eric Alterman

Btw...Izzy Stone was Eric's idol and mentor.

24 posted on 02/10/2002 11:54:31 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
Moynihan joined them, though. His attempt to tax ammunition at a rate of 10,000% of its value was proof of that. More to the point, most of us don't remember that there were once patriots in public office.
25 posted on 02/10/2002 12:29:31 PM PST by Twodees
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To: MeeknMing
Just pinging you.
I saw this episode of Nova here in Los Angeles last Tuesday...it was an INCREDIBLE
job done on the Soviet infiltration at Los Alamos and FDR's administration.
Imagine a PBS production that has the "intestinal fortitude" to say that
Alger Hiss really was (most likely) a Soviet agent.
Honest, this Nova episode is that good.

Why am I pinging you, in particular? IIRC, you are in the Dallas area...and I just sent
my cousin in Dallas an e-mail to remind him to see this episode when it airs tonight on
KERA-13 at 11:30 PM (Monday 2/11/02).

If you are interested, but that time is too late, I guarantee it will be worth videotaping!
Cheers...and sorry if I bothered you needlessly.
26 posted on 02/11/2002 3:33:03 PM PST by VOA
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To: VOA
If you are interested, but that time is too late, I guarantee it will be worth videotaping! Cheers...and sorry if I bothered you needlessly.

Not a bother. I appreciate the heads up. Sounds real interesting.

I'll see if the VCR is still working and if I still know how to rig it for a timed recording.

Thanks! !

27 posted on 02/11/2002 4:49:44 PM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: abwehr
About the best NOVA could do to maintain the demonization of McCarthy was claim that had he had access to the Venona intercepts he would have named names.

Another Republican of famously evil repute, Richard Nixon, bit his tongue when Jack Kennedy, with the highest stakes in politics sitting on the table, baited him about "the missile gap", which both Nixon and Kennedy knew was a monstrous lie, because they'd both been briefed (together, in the same room) about Colonel Penkovsky's information.

Could it be that these evil Republicans were still more morally upright, on their worst day, than the princes of liberaldom have ever wanted to be? Perish the thought!

28 posted on 02/14/2002 3:28:46 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: quietolong
I watched the Nova report on the "Rosenbergs" with a strange mix of nausea and fascination. Since the guilt of the Rosenbergs (as defined by statute) has been proven beyond any doubt what is left for their defenders? That bigger fish got away? That they were morally and intellectually superior human beings and therefore not bound by the laws of a government established by slave-holding White males? (This is known in law as the Kathleen Soliah defense.) Nova did manage to avoid the assertion that the information was not of value to the Soviets. (It was, though not critical.)

They even let slip that Ethel Rosenberg importuned her sister-in-law to pressure her own brother, David Greenglass, into supplying information to the Soviets, which sort of shreds the loyal wife defense. (Actually, many believe that Ethel was the instigator, pressuring her henpecked husband into becoming an agent.) She was convicted of typing the information supplied by her brother, a fact that the Nova report inexplicably overlooked. They seem to claim that because the Soviets never actually named Ethel Rosenberg as an "agent" in any of their cable traffic or in the Moscow archives, she is not guilty of espionage. But she is identified as Julius' wife (she did not have a code name, he was code named LIBERAL) and in context it is pretty clear that she was an active participant, and so recognized by Moscow.

I'm baffled about the point of the report. Essentially, the thesis is that Joe McCarthy was correct, but he had no right to be, mostly because he was the wrong sort of person. Apparently the report started out as a report on the Venona decrypts (I'm speculating). The Venona decrypts are interesting, the result of persistence and intellectual rigor on the part of the Americans (the bad guys) and procedural sloppiness and endemic laziness on the part of the Soviets (the good guys in our drama). In PBS-land that dog won't hunt.

Airing Ethel Rosenberg's son's claim that his mother was "murdered in cold blood by this government" is unspeakably callous. He in not a disinterested party and is hardly in a position to be objective. His mother's life might have been spared if she, or her husband, had named other Soviet agents. Some find her behavior heroic. But if she loved her son, won't she have been more concerned about assuring that he had a home to grow up in and less in the progress of international communism? The future will work itself out, without the exertions of any one of us, but our children need us uniquely to ensure their future. As parents, the Rosenbergs were failures. Sacrificing your children to some messianic ego trip is no more noble than sacrificing them to drugs or alcohol. But don't tell her son that.

29 posted on 02/14/2002 3:33:25 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets
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To: jamaksin
Literally boxcars of "stuff" got shipped to the USSR ...

My father, who was a career active-duty USAF Reservist (1950-62, a "retread" for Korea), told me about some of that stuff back in the 1950's. It was common knowledge in the Air Force that Hopkins and Harry Dexter White had been solid red, and that they'd sent nuclear materials over the pole to the USSR in the 40's, but nobody could do anything about it. Some USAAF officer who'd tried to stop a shipment up in Montana or Idaho or someplace had had a can tied to his ass by Hopkins personally, the story went.

There was never any doubt in my dad's mind that McCarthy had been right, but that The Club had hated his guts and ridden him down because he'd tried to crash the party uninvited. Not that they had anything against drunks, but that didn't stop them from telling everyone else about it.

This knowledge weighed on my dad's and other people's minds a lot in the 50's and contributed greatly to the atmosphere of pessimism and worry that dominated the era. But media types never talk about that.

30 posted on 02/14/2002 3:37:36 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Pagey
Pagey,
Wait patiently throughout the year.......then give them all copies simultaneously, for Christmas.
31 posted on 02/14/2002 3:39:16 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: quietolong
Let's see, Greenglass, Rosenberg, Oppenheimer, Stone, Alterman, etc., etc..

See a trend here?

32 posted on 02/14/2002 3:42:39 PM PST by jackbill
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
That [the Rosenbergs ]were morally and intellectually superior human beings and therefore not bound by the laws of a government established by slave-holding White males? (This is known in law as the Kathleen Soliah defense.)

Oooooh, this is too good! Shame on me for enjoying myself so much! Anticommunist BUMP for our Massachusetts friend!!

"LG"

33 posted on 02/14/2002 3:59:34 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Your post is just priceless -- send it to PBS! Send it as a letter to the New York Times! All you did was just nail every single argument, and expose to the world what PBS tried to conceal -- the moral barrenness of the ideological Left.

And remember, boys and girls -- the German Nazis were a Left party, too, and don't ever let anyone tell you differently!

And FWIW, I used PBS's public-feedback link to send them a stiffly worded note about, okay, if McCarthy was right -- what about it, guys? You going to climb down any on the subject of Joseph McCarthy?

34 posted on 02/14/2002 4:10:13 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: quietolong
Had he conducted him self better instead of trying to make political hay the term McCarthyism would not have evolved to keep others from digging into this.

McCarthyism was created by hollyweird. It would have been created regardless of how polite and nice McCarthy conducted himself. Right wingers are all nazi's and McCarthy was a really nasty threatening one. To bad shallow America worships leftist celebrities and their industry.

35 posted on 02/14/2002 4:16:17 PM PST by PuNcH
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To: LarryLied
"ERIC ALTERMAN, LIKE ARSENIC, IS AN ACQUIRED TASTE."

What a great line -- great post, thanks! Where do guys like MSNBC find guys like Alterman? Do they deliberately look under rocks?

"Micturation" -- wonderful! It's like finding a dollar bill lying on the sidewalk -- Thanks, Larry! Great, great post!

"LG"

36 posted on 02/14/2002 4:34:55 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
"Harry-the-Hop" Hopkins was truly a piece of work.

As one of FDR's favourites, during the CCC days, if you were not/nor would not "register to vote" as a Democrat - you were blackballed from CCC, WPA, ... work.

As Hopkins was head of the Lend-Lease program, and was Soviet Agent 19 as identified via the Venona work, it is little wonder that Stalin got more and more ...

As is the case in most of American education - this "history" (as Tehran, Yalta) is never addressed - FDR's legacy is too dear!!!

As an FYI, See "Dark Sun - The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb" by Richard Rhodes (Simon $ Schuster, New York, 1995, ISBN 0-684-80400-X), Chapter Five "Super Lend-Lease." Pages 99-100 lists the nuclear materials; there also is a commentary by General Groves.

37 posted on 02/15/2002 5:26:44 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: jamaksin
As is the case in most of American education - this "history" (as Tehran, Yalta) is never addressed - FDR's legacy is too dear!!!

Yes, FDR-worship is a real pain. At least the plagiarism accusations have shut Doris Kearns Goodwin up. Haven't seen her on The News Hour lately -- blessed relief! Don't know whether you've listened to her, but she absolutely worshipped the ground FDR walked on when she was a kid, and despite her training as a historian, she's never apparently revisited her prejudices and illusions. Maybe being married to Camelot insider Dick Goodwin has had something to do with that. I'd trust her to tell me about Millard Fillmore, but the 20th century? Forget it! She sees the world through a rose-colored pair of Rooseveltian pince-nez.

Revising American history to account for the illegitimate Communist and leftist influences on American society and government, and measure their damage to our history, is going to be the major historiographical restoration job of the 21st century. The Vietnamese War alone is going to be huge.

Then, there will be the inevitable discussion: after we've reviewed all the damage, all the lies, deception, bad faith, and outright treason, we'll have to tackle the question of "what have we learned from all this, and what do we have to do to prevent its recurrence?"

The really hard part is going to be the recovery and maintenance of individual freedom and the rights and influence of our ancestors that we enjoyed in the Jacksonian Era. We will need to eliminate or domesticate the self-interested, destructive influence of economic combinations like the Millocracy and of hostile, alien ideologies like Communism, Fabian socialism, and their underground agents.

38 posted on 02/16/2002 2:20:36 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
Very, very well said ... but, I for one, will not hold my breathe on ever seeing a "true telling" of American history, especially by American "historians."

For example, only after a British underseas film crew exploring the SS Lusitania in the 1970's published the photographs of "war materiels" did the original shipping manifests "magically" appear from the US Archives.

For almost eight (8) decades, Americans were told that the Wilson Administration "would never put innocents in Harm's Way" - over a thousand people died. And it still took the Zimmermann Telegraph for Wilson to get the US Congress to vote for a declaration of war for entry in WWI - BUT AT LEAST WILSON DID GO BEFORE CONGRESS!!!

An odd thing about the SS Lusitania, and the Zimmerman Telegraph - in both cases Winston S. Churchill had "his fingers" in each of the pies ...

So, we have a proven case where the US government has knowingly placed its own people in Harm's Way, and good old WSC "working" to save the British ...

Hello FDR and Pearl Harbor ... See Stinnett "Day of Deceit" (paperback), and Wilford "Pearl Harbor Redefined - USN Radio Intelligence in 1941."

39 posted on 02/17/2002 3:57:55 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: jamaksin
many Americans are still not aware that in 1943, under the Lend-Lease program, tons of nuclear materials were shipped to the USSR.

Source? One the one hand I could easily believe that, but a claim like that needs a bit more documentation.

40 posted on 02/17/2002 4:12:06 AM PST by jude24
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To: LarryLied
Btw...Izzy Stone was Eric's idol and mentor.

Interesting article,but the author is wrong in one premise. Being a Soviet communist spy does NOT mean you are not also a "Democrat to the bone".In fact,it could be considered to be additional evidence.

41 posted on 02/17/2002 6:31:32 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: quietolong
Our Freedom of speech is in Jeopardy !!

There are actually 2 petitions that I know of so far.. Please sign BOTH !!...

Petition Written By: S.D. Smith

Petition Written By: David C. Osborne

FREEPMAIL me if you are aware of any other petitions so I can add them to my list...

42 posted on 02/17/2002 6:34:11 AM PST by davidosborne
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To: Twodees
Moynihan joined them, though.

Moynihan always talked one way,and voted the other. Notice how he was rabidly anti-Bubbette!,but endorsed her when she made her campaign official? Moynihan's "job" within the Dim party was to always appear as a "moderate leader" so people didn't flee the Dim Party in horror. In truth he was a bad as the rest of them. I'll always suspect he is also a old fairy.

43 posted on 02/17/2002 6:34:35 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: quietolong
Joe McCarthy was 100% correct. One of the best books I've ever read is Witness by Whittaker Chambers.
44 posted on 02/17/2002 6:37:14 AM PST by blam
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To: quietolong
JOE McCARTHY WAS RIGHT!
He "smeared" people by pointing out that they were communists or actively supported communist causes. This posed problems for some. Unfortunately it didn't last long enough to pose problems for enough communists.
45 posted on 02/17/2002 6:41:35 AM PST by FreePaul
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To: lentulusgracchus
. It was common knowledge in the Air Force that Hopkins and Harry Dexter White had been solid red,

It was even common knowledge that Eleanor Roosevelt was a dedicated communist,but nobody really cared. She even went so far as to have several communists being investigated by Congress stay at the White House after they were supoened to testify before the House Un-American Activities Committee. They would get up in the morning,eat breakfast at the WH,and then be driven to the hearings in the WH limo.When the hearings were over for the day,they all rode back to the WH for dinner and sleep. This went on for about 3 months. Eleanor often sat directly behind them to show her support,and there was even a photo that took up most of the front page of the Washington Post showing her sitting there.

So much for "America's Greatest Generation". What they cared about was a chicken in every pot,and to hell with freedom. How else could Roosevelt have kept getting elected?

46 posted on 02/17/2002 6:43:59 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: lentulusgracchus
BTW,nobody wants to talk about "how could the Soviets have exploded their own Atomic Bomb before the British did,when the British were sharing in our research?". Gee,I wonder why?
47 posted on 02/17/2002 6:45:11 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: jackbill
Let's see, Greenglass, Rosenberg, Oppenheimer, Stone, Alterman, etc., etc..

See a trend here?

They were all Jewish,as was Hall and all the people who were the intellectuals who originated communism. In fact,the left is mostly controlled by Jews to this very day.

48 posted on 02/17/2002 6:47:51 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
What is sickening is that few know about any of this. Hollywood still pretends traitors on Stalin's payroll were patriots sticking up for America and the Bill of Rights.
49 posted on 02/17/2002 7:43:56 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: sneakypete
Exactly. While conservatives were being sold the snow job that there were still a few conservative democrats among the Nor'east Irish Catholics in office, Patsy was crafting such legislation as his proposal to tax ammo 10,000%.

It was pretty much the same with Tip O'Neil. Same bill of goods sold about the supposed "oldtimey" democrats, same behind the scenes maneuvering.

50 posted on 02/17/2002 12:25:55 PM PST by Twodees
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