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Secrets, Lies, and Atomic Spies,.....Or... Joe McCarthy was more right than he ever knew
PBS Nova ^ | February 5, 2002 | Peter Tyson

Posted on 02/05/2002 11:06:24 PM PST by quietolong

NOVA reveals startling new evidence that Soviet spies penetrated America's deepest secrets, including the Manhattan Project, in the 1940's. By cracking the code of Soviet diplomatic cables, the FBI was able to hunt down "atom spies" such as Klaus Fuchs and Julius Rosenberg. But the true "master spy," a physicist named Ted Hall, got away -- and his gripping story is presented for the first time by NOVA. Read Venona Intercepts By Peter Tyson

In 1995, the U.S. National Security Agency broke a half century of silence by releasing translations of Soviet cables decrypted back in the 1940s by the Venona Project. Venona was a top-secret U.S. effort to gather and decrypt messages sent in the 1940s by agents of what is now called the KGB and the GRU, the Soviet military intelligence agency. The cables revealed the identities of numerous Americans who were spies for the Soviet Union, including those chronicled in NOVA's "Secrets, Lies, and Atomic Spies."

The four Venona cables presented here provide striking evidence of the covert activities of several atomic-era spies, including Klaus Fuchs, Julius Rosenberg, and Theodore Alvin Hall. Through the cables and accompanying stories, peer through the keyhole into the secret lives of these and other agents, who gave away details of the atomic bomb and other highly sensitive technologies. Watch for code words such as "Enormous," which stood for the Manhattan Project, America's atomic-bomb program

Link to Nova web sight on this show


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: joemccarthy; mccarthy
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To: Twodees
there's still lots of trees in DC for that 'strange fruit'!!
51 posted on 02/17/2002 12:30:23 PM PST by rockfish59
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To: jude24
"Dark Sun - The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb" By Richard Rhodes, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1995. ISBN 0-684-80400-X

Chapter 5 "Super Lend-Lease"
Pages 99-100 lists nuclear materials sent.
FYI - text is available in paperback edition.

52 posted on 02/17/2002 12:32:30 PM PST by jamaksin
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To: jamaksin
Harry Hopkins was a socalal worker in NYC. Algers' wife was a socal worker in NYC. My father, dead for these 42 years, thought that Harry Hopkins was a spy. There is a link between the progressives in NY in the thirties and the spying, I have grafted it out but the nexus is a problem, somewhere in the 20's.
53 posted on 02/17/2002 12:45:26 PM PST by Little Bill
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To: rockfish59
Yes, and there are plenty of lamp posts too. What's lacking is will, or maybe a high enough level of resentment at having our liberties nullified.
54 posted on 02/17/2002 1:07:39 PM PST by Twodees
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To: sneakypete
how could the Soviets have exploded their own Atomic Bomb before the British did,when the British were sharing in our research?.

That’s a easy one. We took all there Uranium
This is also detailed in the book Dark Sun ( see reply 37 )

Link to info on book

Link to info on book

Link to info on book

Link to info on book

Link to info on book

Link to info on book

Link to info on book Author

55 posted on 02/17/2002 1:31:49 PM PST by quietolong
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To: Twodees
'triumph of the will'?
pffffft!
56 posted on 02/18/2002 11:44:40 AM PST by rockfish59
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To: jamaksin
Thanks for the references to Stinnett's and Wilford's books -- I wrote the titles down and added them to my "list".

British interference in U.S. policy is pretty well documented by now. The degree of alienation of the policy elites of the 1930's and 40's from the people whose proxy they supposedly held as a sacred trust -- it was the bedrock of the New Deal, still implicitly believed in by e.g. Doris Kearns Goodwin -- has yet to be fully documented beyond (self-interested) dispute.

To me, the American experience since FDR brought the Brain Trust to power and established the current policy-wonk technocratic "meritocracy" will bear in some important lessons for future American voters and politicians. To me, the apex and defining moment of that relationship between the policy elite and the People occurred in February 1968, when the Ten Wise Men, swallowing their earlier advice to Lyndon Johnson, told him the Vietnamese War was lost.....the first war America had ever lost, and it was their war ..... and simply got up and left the room, leaving President Johnson muttering to himself and an aide or two, "Somebody poisoned the well."

Exactly, Lyndon. That's exactly what happens when you trust other people who think they're smarter than you are.

57 posted on 02/18/2002 9:08:14 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: sneakypete
She even went so far as to have several communists being investigated by Congress stay at the White House...

My dad told me about that one, too. The Treasury people were going nuts -- they were responsible for the President's security.

58 posted on 02/18/2002 9:11:47 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: jackbill
Let's see, Greenglass, Rosenberg, Oppenheimer, Stone, Alterman, etc., etc..

See a trend here?

Yes, a lot of the New York "Progressives" referred to above were Jewish, as were the socialists who were hunted down by the Nazis in Vienna during the Anschluss, when Dollfuss was assassinated and scores of socialists were murdered. Harold A.R. "Kim" Philby was in Vienna then, and the experience was one of those that cemented his treason.

I've also read that secularized Jews tend to extrovert their morality, which propels them into reformist and utopian politics -- the Jewish socialists were a big chunk of the Left in prerevolutionary Russia, and Lenin had to drive them out of the "mass party" to consolidate his control.

Which is why you wont see Hasidim participating in the kind of activity we're talking about, and in fact conservative, observant Jews were never involved as far as I know.

59 posted on 02/18/2002 9:20:26 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
My dad told me about that one, too. The Treasury people were going nuts -- they were responsible for the President's security.

The story,as well as the front page photo from the Washington Post are on the internet. Eleanor had a communist boyfriend named "Joe" something that was most likely her "handler". At any rate,Hoover kept him under survelience,and even taped Joe and Eleanor bumpin' ugly in several hotel rooms. I had links to all this stuff bookmarked,but a virus got them.

60 posted on 02/18/2002 11:17:47 PM PST by sneakypete
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To: lentulusgracchus
There are many plausible/demonstrable connections between FDR's and the Communist mind-set.

But with historians such as "Cheshire cat" Goodwin and "Copy cat" Ambrose leading the charge ... Americans are doomed even in the basic understanding of their own history.

How many "Constitutional historians and scholars" signed that full-page newspaper letter ok'ing Clinton's behaviour - 400 +/-? Just compare the Congressional reactions to ENRON's Skillings saying "I can not recall" and those selfsame Congressmen to the former first lady's "I can not recall." Politically expedient - "tax, tax - spend, spend - elect, elect" ...

As an FYI, if you have not already seen these: "The Roosevelt Myth" John T. Flynn - rather old now, but speaks to how FDR et. al., did not "fix" America's Depression woes; but shows instance how their policies put Americans on the (now solid) path of governmental dependence. That is FDR real legacy - and THAT MUST BE PROTECTED AT ALL COSTS!

Also, "The Jew from Linz" - speaks to the Russia Pale history, the various Tsarist pogroms, some of the origins of Zionism, ... and the schism between Liberal/Reform/Orthodox dogma comes from ... and yes, where Cambridge University fits in.

Ye Olde Lydon never got the nexus of his "Great Society" and "guns and butter" - remember Clinton "dodged the draft" and still made Prez. Weird world Americans live in!

Finally, as Charles A. Beard once said, "Writing history is a dangerous trade."

61 posted on 02/19/2002 3:57:53 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: PuNcH
By handling himself better I mean that he had his ducks lined up before he accused. Not saying thank you and please. He was over the target n didn’t even know it!
62 posted on 02/20/2002 9:33:44 PM PST by quietolong
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To: LarryLied
What do you expect ? Look who runs Hollywood !
63 posted on 02/23/2002 5:14:41 PM PST by sushiman
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To: Pagey
Just got the book The Venona Secrets From the library. Have only paged thought it so far. But had to put it down a couple of times. Because I felt like running out and grabbing the first rope. But the problem in this was 50-70 years ago. Need to find the ones now ! And let’s not fool our selves into thinking there only in the Rat party.
64 posted on 02/23/2002 10:37:41 PM PST by quietolong
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To: quietolong
Who was the author of "Dark Sun"? Thanx
65 posted on 02/25/2002 8:20:00 AM PST by tillacum
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To: tillacum
see posts 52 & 55
66 posted on 02/25/2002 10:25:23 AM PST by quietolong
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To: quietolong
top
67 posted on 03/05/2002 8:23:41 PM PST by quietolong
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To: quietolong
bump
68 posted on 03/09/2002 11:29:56 PM PST by quietolong
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To: lentulusgracchus
And remember, boys and girls -- the German Nazis were a Left party, too, and don't ever let anyone tell you differently!

No, they were a right-wing party, as everyone agreed at the time. Left and right are mere groupings, not ideals or ideologies. The nazis were right-wing socialists. There are such critters, you know. They are more common in Europe than in America, though.

69 posted on 03/09/2002 11:41:26 PM PST by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
No, they were a right-wing party, as everyone agreed at the time. ....The nazis were right-wing socialists.

That's what the other Socialists and fellow-pinko's said about them, to distance themselves.

Labels don't mean much, but programmes do. The Nazis were a Left party, and socialists. There is no such thing as a "right-wing socialist". If challenged to identify a "right-wing socialist", I doubt that any academic on the face of the earth could identify one, with the possible solitary exception of the Nazi Party of Germany, and that is only because the Leftists have always insisted, "we aren't with Ugly over there.....he isn't one of us!" But of course that was an expedient lie.

As between Left and Right, self-identifying and programming as a Socialist has always been definitive: if it's Socialist, it's Leftist.

70 posted on 03/10/2002 12:52:31 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: quietolong
putting at the top of my list
71 posted on 03/24/2002 10:14:30 PM PST by quietolong
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To: Pagey
Finish the book The Venona Secrets. One of the biggest revelations was how the USSR had a big hand in Pearl Harbor happening. Required reading for all.
72 posted on 05/01/2002 9:58:47 PM PDT by quietolong
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To: quietolong
Treason Still Shadows J.R. Oppenheimer
73 posted on 10/10/2002 12:42:25 AM PDT by quietolong
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To: quietolong
Venona Intercepts

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a6dcdd17410.htm

74 posted on 03/03/2003 9:56:49 PM PST by quietolong
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To: quietolong
We Told You So - Secret Venona Intercepts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/711735/posts

75 posted on 03/03/2003 10:03:53 PM PST by quietolong
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To: quietolong
A Tim Robbins bump...
76 posted on 04/16/2003 2:12:46 PM PDT by TomServo
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To: TomServo
bump
77 posted on 04/16/2003 2:19:14 PM PDT by Diago
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To: Diago
bttt
78 posted on 06/25/2003 8:16:58 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: quietolong
They are still here and protected by their party.
79 posted on 06/25/2003 8:19:57 PM PDT by ladyinred (The left have blood on their hands.)
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To: SkyPilot
For all the talk about "blacklisting" of leftists in the 50's, the truth is - it was conservative types who were blacklisted decades before. As usual, rank and file Americans are being duped. But we here at FR know better.
80 posted on 06/25/2003 8:23:36 PM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Tailgunner Joe
This thread deserves a second life.
81 posted on 06/26/2003 1:01:16 PM PDT by Diago
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To: quietolong
Venona Project Homepage, NSA (Decrypted Soviet Cables, Coulter source for Treason book)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/935929/posts

82 posted on 06/26/2003 1:15:01 PM PDT by quietolong
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To: quietolong
Introduction to the VENONA Project

http://www.nsa.gov/docs/venona/
83 posted on 06/26/2003 1:16:20 PM PDT by quietolong
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To: sneakypete
[ Interesting article,but the author is wrong in one premise. Being a Soviet communist spy does NOT mean you are not also a "Democrat to the bone".In fact,it could be considered to be additional evidence. ]

"...I would like to be clearly understood...we, the Soviet people, are for socialism.... We want more socialism and, therefore, more democracy." Mikhail Gorbachev

"Socialism has a bad name in America, and no amount of wishful thinking on the part of the left is going to change that.... The words Economic Democracy are an adequate and effective replacement." Derek Shearer cited in Reason 1982

84 posted on 06/26/2003 1:28:30 PM PDT by hosepipe
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To: MEG33
mark
85 posted on 06/30/2003 2:24:12 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
I had the exact same reaction you had.

"They seem to claim that because the Soviets never actually named Ethel Rosenberg as an "agent" in any of their cable traffic or in the Moscow archives, she is not guilty of espionage. But she is identified as Julius' wife (she did not have a code name, he was code named LIBERAL) and in context it is pretty clear that she was an active participant, and so recognized by Moscow."

She was a spy, and they show she was complicit, but then they try to be sympathetic to her, like the FBI went too far and claim her life might have been spared "if the venona files were public". Nonsense. She deserved it.

The real problem is that others deserved it more (Ted Hall) and got away.

Their bashing of McCarthy was incongruous, non-factual and irrelevent. How do they know McCarthy would have publicized Venona secrets? McCarthy kept his own hearings secret until the other side demanded they be public.
86 posted on 08/30/2003 7:10:39 PM PDT by WOSG
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To: quietolong
PBS - NOVA ..?? WOW !! What's the name of the program - I'll watch for it - this is great! It definitely proves Ann Coulter's assertion that McCarthy knew the truth - and the DEMOCRATS hid it by using the POLITICS OF PERSONAL DESTRUCTION. So what else is new!!
87 posted on 08/30/2003 7:21:21 PM PDT by CyberAnt ( America - "The Greatest Nation on the Face of the Earth")
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To: CyberAnt
Secrets, Lies, and Atomic Spies

Watch it if you can in rerun. It's a good show.

I still don't think McCarthy knew what he was on to.
88 posted on 08/30/2003 10:43:47 PM PDT by quietolong
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To: quietolong
VENONA
The Cold War's "Smoking Gun"

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_15/platt_15.html
89 posted on 08/30/2003 10:50:54 PM PDT by quietolong
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To: quietolong
Must read bump!
90 posted on 09/03/2003 11:52:03 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: hosepipe
Or Economic Justice, Social Justice, and even Proressive.
91 posted on 09/04/2003 12:18:46 AM PDT by SoDak
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To: quietolong
Oldie but goodie bump
92 posted on 09/05/2003 6:53:47 AM PDT by GOPJ
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To: SkyPilot
Just to make sure that the so-called "blacklist" and McCarthy are completely separated (as they should be):

Senator McCarthy was never part of the House Unamerican Activities Committee. McCarthy was never anywhere near the "blacklist".

BTW - I'm not yelling at you, but I know there is a lot of confusion on this subject. The dumbing down of American education has taken its toll over the years.

93 posted on 09/05/2003 7:01:34 AM PDT by MortMan (Tag - Does this mean "I'm it"?)
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To: lentulusgracchus
The Nazis and Fascists are "right-wing" in that they are Nationalists (of which I approve) and "left-wing" in that they attempt to impose central control over the economy (something I really dislike!).
Basically they are just another group of totalitarians. If you want to figure the difference: Nazis and Fascists are Nationalis Socialists, and Commies are International Socialists.
94 posted on 09/05/2003 7:30:24 AM PDT by Little Ray (When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!)
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To: MortMan
Senator McCarthy was never part of the House Unamerican Activities Committee.

Gee, thanks. I never said he was.

95 posted on 09/05/2003 7:43:22 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
I know you didn't say it, SkyPilot. I just wanted to inject the info to make sure those less knowledgeable didn'tmake that fundamental mistake. I guess I'm just riled up this morning - more caffeine might help (I hope:).
96 posted on 09/05/2003 8:05:36 AM PDT by MortMan (Tag - Does this mean "I'm it"?)
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To: Little Ray
Well, it's true that socialists tend less to be nationalists than Rightists, but I think the criterion of socialism is still the touchstone.

German National Socialists, btw, didn't insist on formally owning all the means of production. They just appointed people like Fritz Todt and Albert Speer to control them.......which btw is what FDR did over here, and even went so far as to have troops throw Mr. Avery, chairman of Montgomery Ward I think it was, out of his own office, to make his point -- that everyone had to toe the mark and pull together for Victory. Stalin would have had the guy shot, but the end result was the same.

And the idea of controlling property without owning it has been voguish in the U.S. Left for a while: Barry Commoner ran for President in 1980, as you may recall, and he made that same idea his own: we'll let people continue to own property -- we'll just separate them from control, which we'll exert to turn capital to public purposes. Broadcasting that idea netted Commoner a lot of appeals from liberals to shut up -- he was letting their favorite cat out of the bag!

Whether they are outright Communists or corporatist fascists like the Nazis who permit a private sphere to continue in existence under State controls and intervention, socialists are all still parties of Government Control and are therefore leftist, IMHO.

97 posted on 09/05/2003 8:45:17 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: CyberAnt; quietolong
[CyberAnt] It definitely proves Ann Coulter's assertion that McCarthy knew the truth - and the DEMOCRATS hid it by using the POLITICS OF PERSONAL DESTRUCTION. So what else is new!!

What I would like to know is, why did Liberals turn on McCarthy and set out deliberately to destroy him?

Because he was an alcoholic? Lots of alcoholics in the Congress.

Because he was a Republican? They liked Arthur Vandenburg and Dwight Eisenhower just fine.

Because he dealt in innuendo like J. Edgar Hoover did?

I still don't see an obvious peg. It had to have been cultural, the fact that he was a boostrapper, a nobody. It had to be pride of place, and snobbery.

98 posted on 09/05/2003 8:51:16 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: MortMan
No problem, I have had a bad day too.
99 posted on 09/05/2003 9:49:42 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: lentulusgracchus
The dems hated and went after McCarthy because he exposed their darling communist Alger Hiss. That's according to Ann.

And .. the reason the dems hated and went after Nixon was because he was a member of the House UnAmerican Activities Committee, and outed all the Hollyweird people.
100 posted on 09/05/2003 7:57:03 PM PDT by CyberAnt ( America - "The Greatest Nation on the Face of the Earth")
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